The Dragon Age: Inquisition Thread

[Monkeysattva]

Wow.
Did anyone mention the fucking convoluted areas? DID ANYONE? I cant find my way around, AT ALL. The maps are so fucking WRONG, it boggles the mind.
Just THIS makes the game 10 times worse than Dragon Age 2.

I haven't experienced maps like these in 15 years of fucking gaming.

What's wrong with the areas?

The fact that they are a maze. I think that's what convoluted means, n'est-ce pas?

Oh, I thought you were going to complain that they were boring corridors.

I like corridors. Corridors are bro's. They don't lie to you.

 

[Sykar]

Wow.
Did anyone mention the fucking convoluted areas? DID ANYONE? I cant find my way around, AT ALL. The maps are so fucking WRONG, it boggles the mind.
Just THIS makes the game 10 times worse than Dragon Age 2.

I haven't experienced maps like these in 15 years of fucking gaming.

What's wrong with the areas?

The fact that they are a maze. I think that's what convoluted means, n'est-ce pas?

Oh, I thought you were going to complain that they were boring corridors.

I like corridors. Corridors are bro's. They don't lie to you.

They become boring quickly though. Well not always but as a trend...

 

[Lilura]

casting Tenser's Transformation Eldar Powah on himself so that he's able to go toe-to-toe with a Balrog as a weakly old man, etc.

With dumb comments like this, you should prob stick to vague and dumbed down Dragon Age and TES lore.

 

[Monkeysattva]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

 

[Bleed the Man]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

Mmmm... I never had any problem when exploring. Lots and lots of problems with its content, yes, but not to navigate the areas themselves. Actually, I though they were pretty well crafted in that regard.

 

[DragoFireheart]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

 

[Monkeysattva]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

You must be from the silent asshole school of game appreciation. Good to know.

 

[DragoFireheart]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

You must be from the silent asshole school of game appreciation. Good to know.

Yea, got a BA in douchebag.

Why are you assuming that a console game has to be extremely dumbed down? Is exploration really that horrible?

 

[Monkeysattva]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

Mmmm... I never had any problem when exploring. Lots and lots of problems with its content, yes, but not to navigate the areas themselves. Actually, I though they were pretty well crafted in that regard.

For me exploring is the worst part of the game. In DA2 you at least didn't have to spend massive amounts of time wandering the countryside, the bad content was handed to you on a platter. Which is almost a form of politeness.

 

[Monkeysattva]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

You must be from the silent asshole school of game appreciation. Good to know.

Yea, got a BA in douchebag.

Why are you assuming that a console game has to be extremely dumbed down? Is exploration really that horrible?

Yes. If I already don't appreciate the game - sure. If this was some sort of masterpiece, maybe I'd spend the time to "take it in." But it isn't. Do I have to spend time between boring and boring, just to get to more boring? I let the combat system do that.

 

[Monkeysattva]

Also, being dumbed down isn't necessarily bad. Complexity isn't a virtue in and of itself. Generally it's fake complexity, that ruins things, not simplicity. (though that's more true of narratives, than spaces)

EDIT: Then again, in a narrative medium, the space you play in IS part of the narrative. Losing momentum in a certain type of game, means losing half of the possible fun. (If that word can be used in DA:I thread)

 

[crawlkill]

Wow.
Did anyone mention the fucking convoluted areas? DID ANYONE? I cant find my way around, AT ALL. The maps are so fucking WRONG, it boggles the mind.
Just THIS makes the game 10 times worse than Dragon Age 2.

I haven't experienced maps like these in 15 years of fucking gaming.

What's wrong with the areas?

The fact that they are a maze. I think that's what convoluted means, n'est-ce pas?

Maze is the wrong word, but I agree with the sentiment. Why the fuck is there no topographical information on the minimap? WHY? I can't count the number of times I tried to jump up a slope--occasionally exploitily successful, sometimes because my party members just teleported up it and I switched to them--that I clearly wasn't meant to. Why is the Assassin's Creed-style "minimap that only shows location not the actual area" so popular, -particularly in a game that has a detailed full-size map of every area?-

above/below indicators would also have been helpful.

of course, it would also have been helpful if they just hadn't packed the game with a bunch of filler bullshit for me to OCDeal with.

casting Tenser's Transformation Eldar Powah on himself so that he's able to go toe-to-toe with a Balrog as a weakly old man, etc.

With dumb comments like this, you should prob stick to vague and dumbed down Dragon Age and TES lore.

forgiving him his probably non-native "weakly," he's right...ish. if backward. of course D&D shit was in part based on Gandalf. but the real point is the arbitraryness of what wizards in Middle Earth can do. I don't like it when non-game fiction goes on and on about the rules of magic, which ought to be -magical- and beyond explanation, but Gandalf is very much a victim of the "why don't the eagles just carry us to Orodruin?" factor. his powers seem kind of random. and wizardry isn't something you learn; it's something you -are.- which isn't expressed in the popular books at all. Tolkien appears to've strayed too far to the "don't explain magic" side of things, but in reality what he was doing was not -deciding- on magic.

imagine if D&D had decided that everyone in the wizard class was an angel.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Also, being dumbed down isn't necessarily bad.

I can't take this anymore.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog sup Drog

 

[crawlkill]

Also, being dumbed down isn't necessarily bad.

I can't take this anymore.

but...it's not. there's no such thing as "devolution." it's a fictional concept. that which is more complicated does not necessarily work better than that which is less.

what's important is how all the pieces work in concert, not how many pieces there are. if there are hundreds and they don't interact meaningfully except when they're breaking shit--see IE games--then that complexity hasn't added anything. conversely, when there's just one or a handful that does/do exactly what it/they should, you've got a genuine blockbuster on your hands.

the fact that you can still have fun playing the original Mario when all it has is a run button and a jump button is evidence enough that overall design is what matters. in terms of economy of design versus portability of joy, I'm not sure Mario will ever be surpassed.

 

[Azarkon]

No, that's going too far. Compared to what? What standard are you using here? Name me one single videogame that "explored cultural, religious and political tensions" in some truly meaningful way. There isn't one. PST is generally considered the "deepest", most mature videogame ever written and it's still just a superficial fairy tale compared to truly deep novels, movies or stage plays.

We have discussed this in some other thread. Videogames are still generally derpy and infantile, in the same way the first movies were. If you wanna explore the depths of philosophy you have to do it somewhere else. You wanna play videogames, especially the AAA ones? Then wizards, dragons and elves is all you're gonna get. The templars vs. mages subplot in DA2 is about as mature as it's gonna get in this industry. Put it another way - Bioware games are not bad because they're not "deep" enough.

PST was pretty well written. It was certainly not weaker than, say, your average Joss Whedon / Christopher Nolan, to use a few examples from screenwriting. But movies aren't primarily judged by their screenwriting, and the same goes for games. PST is an example I'd comfortably use to say that games already have deep writing. It's the rest of the game that I'm not comfortable using.

And no, there's no Tolstoy in video games, in the same way there's no Dickens in screenwriting. These are not literary mediums we're talking about. They're cinematic ones, at best, and in the case of video games, not even that.

visual and interactive media are better-suited to understated, implication-heavy storytelling. they don't have the space that a novel does. that said, there's absolutely no reason why the script of a game or a movie can't equal or exceed the script of a novel. it's just not where the development focus generally goes, because the audience the genre has cultivated in its short history isn't one that likes words. or thoughts.

you don't have to tackle "serious real life issues" to tell a compelling story. it's almost a cop-out, although it's so hard to do well that that's really not fair of me to say. what's really impressive is telling a story that makes people care that they -can't- relate to their own lives. a story that's about people, rather than about ideas. A Song of Ice and Fire might qualify as an example; it's really not making a statement about anything except for the nature of blame and consequence. ASoIaF is so great because when you ask "whose fault is this whole mess?" the chain is endlessly looping, and at every stage you can understand why the character did what he or she did, as shitty as his or her choices were. there's no reason you couldn't tell a story like that in a video game. it's just a question of budget, of perspective shifts, of text versus voice acting.

I'm not saying game/movie writers aren't able to come up with a great script. I'm saying that strip works of literature down to their scripts, and you quickly become aware that they're not all that impressive. High literature isn't evaluated on the basis of their scripts, but on the basis of their thematic ideas, imagery, wordcraft, composition, and socio-historical impact. For example, a chapter from Ulysses, which Wikipedia has done us the favor of summarizing the script of -

"The narrative shifts abruptly. The time is again 8 am, but the action has moved across the city and to the second protagonist of the book, Leopold Bloom, a part-Jewish advertising canvasser. Bloom, after starting to prepare breakfast, decides to walk to a butcher to buy a pork kidney. Returning home, he prepares breakfast and brings it with the mail to his wife Molly as she lounges in bed. One of the letters is from her concert manager Blazes Boylan. Bloom is aware that Molly will welcome Boylan into her bed later that day, and is tormented by the thought. Bloom reads a letter from their daughter Milly Bloom. The chapter closes with Bloom defecating in the outhouse."

Obviously GOTY material.

Now imagine translating that to... Video games. Yeah, it doesn't work. The script is banal. But the composition is masterpiece. Literature isn't the best medium with which to evaluate video game writing, and that's why I picked cinematic screenwriters, especially sci-fi/fantasy screenwriters, who are frequently tackling the same issues video game writers are - ie how to construct a dramatic story and endearing characters while presenting thought-provoking ideas. When evaluating against big names in cinema, PST stands up just fine.

The issue with video game writing has less to do with the writing than it does with the way the writing combines with the gameplay. PST is a nest of cool concepts and great ideas, but you don't feel it after slogging through the 1751th zombie.

 

[Monkeysattva]

Also, being dumbed down isn't necessarily bad.

I can't take this anymore.

Spoiler

That's what she said.

But then again, I could be wrong. Maybe love is the answer to everything?

KUMBAYA MY LORD
KUMBAY-A

 

[DragoFireheart]

Monkeysattva

So you prefer a shit game with corridor linear content over a shit game with "non-linear" paths. Is this what you are saying?

 

[Monkeysattva]

Monkeysattva

So you prefer a shit game with corridor linear content over a shit game with "non-linear" paths. Is this what you are saying?

Yup.

Spoiler

 

[kris]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

I never had a problem with this. But it is hilarious that they have invisible walls on some hills. You can walk on the other side, but while you managed to jump up you hit an invisible wall that prevent you to jump down on the other side, instead you have to go back down again and walk around it. Happened to me several times.

 

[Monkeysattva]

The quest markers don't help you, if there is no clear and visible way toward something. The maps are littered with hills and hillocks, and they all pretty much look alike. That's generally not what I sign up for, when playing a console RPGs.

I never had a problem with this. But it is hilarious that they have invisible walls on some hills. You can walk on the other side, but while you managed to jump up you hit an invisible wall that prevent you to jump down on the other side, instead you have to go back down again and walk around it. Happened to me several times.

I just find the areas tedious. Maybe its a question of atmosphere? I hated Skyrim, but I liked to wander around it. I hate wandering around DA:I. I find it boring, as is, the quests and the "content" withstanding.

 

[crawlkill]

Monkeysattva

So you prefer a shit game with corridor linear content over a shit game with "non-linear" paths. Is this what you are saying?

generally speaking the hallways will waste less of your time. so...yes. unquestionably. why would you ever think otherwise.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Monkeysattva

So you prefer a shit game with corridor linear content over a shit game with "non-linear" paths. Is this what you are saying?

generally speaking the hallways will waste less of your time. so...yes. unquestionably. why would you ever think otherwise.

I'd rather just play a good game.

 

[DalekFlay]

I installed Dragon Age 2 again to see which of these two sequels I hate more. After putting 4 or so hours into DA2 last night and today I can say unequivocally that I think DA2 is a better game. Which is kind of amazing if you think about it, because DA2 is an objectively bad game. At least it has some semblance of quest design however, and a better plot, and halfway engaging combat at least some of the time.

Both these sequels are such shit though, god damn. Fire that Laidlaw guy FFS.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Dragon Age 2 was a GEM compared to this crap.

1 year ago, if someone told me that I'll agree with this kind sentence I smacked him good with my bear hands.
Now I concur :/

 

[PhantasmaNL]

Hm yea im maybe converting to that opinion. At least DA2 had the tactics to fiddle with, which i liked alot, scripting the hell out it and watching it unfold in combat. Plus Dog, although he was neutered. And far better and diverse talents for mages. And essentially better quests because more focussed and involved (if you bought into the personal level non epicness they were striving for). The environments are a serious letdown though. While DAI has far more diverse sceneries they are pretty barren and often not very atmospheric. I liked the swamp area (the windmill made me think of Evil Dead 3(?)), which is relatively small and the bigger area with the dam alot. The rest not so much.

Dumbing down as such may not be evil incarnate as someone said but the degree as to which Biowart is committed to it can only lead to shit. Extrapolating this trend da will end up with 2 buttons: kill, talk. Because of consoles we cant have nice aaa games. Thank heavens for studios like Larian.