The Guild Wars 2 Thread

[Jadeite]

GW2 has nice graphics but that's it. I started reading up on it and it sounds like Warhammer Online, only more fucking casual, if that's possible. The dynamic level scaling isn't a bad idea, but better yet don't have 80 fucking levels. Be like AD&D so a bear is always a bear, and can kick your ass whether you're level 20 (a demi-god) or 1. Sad but MMORPGs can't even aspire to this 'cause of psychology. It's pretty obvious that PvP's going to be a mindless zerg, just like Warhammer Online, only you don't even play against your server. Your enemies don't see your name, you're just an 'invader'. Funny how games like this and WoW are scared shitless of letting enemies talk to each other. Oh, and there's no 'trinity', which means it's like Diablo. Warhammer Online was terrible, and this is somehow worse. I hate this MMO tourism shit.

 

[RK47]

If levelling is too difficult and boring, just press H and click Heart of the Mist. Full access to all powers, and best armor and weapons.
But the mobs there are rude, difficult to handle and very unpredictable.

Warhammer Online was terrible, and this is somehow worse.

You're absolutely right, both MMOs will die soon from the lack of subscribers.

 

[Excidium]

GW2 has nice graphics but that's it. I started reading up on it and it sounds like Warhammer Online, only more fucking casual, if that's possible. The dynamic level scaling isn't a bad idea, but better yet don't have 80 fucking levels. Be like AD&D so a bear is always a bear, and can kick your ass whether you're level 20 (a demi-god) or 1. Sad but MMORPGs can't even aspire to this 'cause of psychology. It's pretty obvious that PvP's going to be a mindless zerg, just like Warhammer Online, only you don't even play against your server. Your enemies don't see your name, you're just an 'invader'. Funny how games like this and WoW are scared shitless of letting enemies talk to each other. Oh, and there's no 'trinity', which means it's like Diablo. Warhammer Online was terrible, and this is somehow worse. I hate this MMO tourism shit.

This level of dumbfuckery should be forbidden, at least know what you're talking about before you inflict your bullshit on the codex

 

[Mangoose]

GW2 WvW is like Dark Age of Camelot, not WAR. Get it straight.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Why the hell are you doing the same events over and over?

Because as far as I can tell it's the only real way to get decent XP early on? Sure, slight exaggeration in that there's more than one or two available, but fighting random enemies, finding new locations etc. really does not give nearly as much XP (and you're going to be doing all that anyway in search of events to complete).

Sounds horribly inefficient to me.

You should concentrate on filling hearts instead of going around searching for events.

And 100% exploring the early game zones. Daily gathering/kill/variety/stuff is also good XP.

 

[Kane]

early on hearts are more efficient than events. starting level 60 you should do events.

 

[Average Manatee]

So guys, is this game basically just 1) run around map until you find mobs of your level 2) grind event near said mobs until level up 3) repeat? As much as I like it compared to other MMOs it is starting to get very stale about 15 levels in.

Surprise! The next 65 levels are killing the exact same shit with no differences other than them being scaled to a higher level, and with no differences pertaining to your character's abilities past level 30 other than pathetic passive trait bonuses. Apparently this makes it a good MMO.

Actually I'm being too harsh. There is also dungeons, which are great if you want to fight through an entire area of enemies that are HP-bloated just as much as event bosses while getting far less XP. Also great for grinding tokens tradable for weapons that are 10x easier to just buy in the first place.

early on hearts are more efficient than events. starting level 60 you should do events.

And 100% exploring the early game zones. Daily gathering/kill/variety/stuff is also good XP.

Certainly not. You can spend 15s in an event and get as much experience as completing a heart or 2/3rds as much experience as 100%ing a level (nevermind that while in events you are often doing both anyway). The daily stuff is the only thing that really offers the same XP/time rate on it's own, each tier being 1/2 an event, but again you pretty much get all of them automatically while doing events. So in the end the whole thing always reduces down to doing events and, if you can't find any, doing other random shit in the level while waiting for them to come up.

 

[Kane]

starting level 60 you won't. there are much more dynamic events per zone, they pop more frequently and they give you much more exp/karma/gold.

 

[Mangoose]

Why the hell are you doing the same events over and over?

Because as far as I can tell it's the only real way to get decent XP early on? Sure, slight exaggeration in that there's more than one or two available, but fighting random enemies, finding new locations etc. really does not give nearly as much XP (and you're going to be doing all that anyway in search of events to complete).

Sounds horribly inefficient to me.

You should concentrate on filling hearts instead of going around searching for events.

And 100% exploring the early game zones. Daily gathering/kill/variety/stuff is also good XP.

Crafting, too. And you get experience in WvW.

 

[Average Manatee]

Crafting, too. And you get experience in WvW.

Getting XP doesn't translate into it being an effective way to level. Though crafting is time efficient, but only because it is literally burning large amounts of money for XP (unless you farm for the crafting materials, but then it's not an effect way to level anymore).

starting level 60 you won't. there are much more dynamic events per zone, they pop more frequently and they give you much more exp/karma/gold.

Anyone fucked up enough to spend 60 levels in PvE grinding this crap deserves some small reprieve I suppose.

 

[sea]

Surprise! The next 65 levels are killing the exact same shit with no differences other than them being scaled to a higher level, and with no differences pertaining to your character's abilities past level 30 other than pathetic passive trait bonuses. Apparently this makes it a good MMO.

That's what I was afraid of.

Don't get me wrong, this is still the most fun I have had with an MMO in a long time. But it's already starting to get stale and unlocking another tier of perks or a few more hotkeys to spam doesn't really do much for me.

Also, I'm playing a necromancer... is it just me or is Death Shroud near useless? Yeah you get a ranged attack, but the cast time means it doesn't do significantly more damage than your regular weapons and the extra abilities suck. It feels more like an escape mechanism to give you a second health bar rather than anything useful for fighting enemies directly.

What really kills it is the level scaling. Your damage, HP, resistances, everything seem directly linked to your level, and while equipment does have an effect, it means that you basically cannot explore beyond a 2ish level area around you - and even if you manage to run past those guys 3-4 levels above you, where does it take you? Another identical town with identical merchants and services as your home city, with quests that you can't complete because the enemies will fuck you up in seconds. Because your damage is scaled it's hard to kill enemies even through sheer perseverance, and as soon as you finish killing one chances are the enemies have already respawned, making it almost impossible to advance further. I've died a bunch of times in a zone, come back after leveling once, and found it a complete cakewalk despite making no changes whatsoever to my build or gear. It just feels way too artificial for my liking.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Surprise! The next 65 levels are killing the exact same shit with no differences other than them being scaled to a higher level, and with no differences pertaining to your character's abilities past level 30 other than pathetic passive trait bonuses. Apparently this makes it a good MMO.

That's what I was afraid of.

Don't get me wrong, this is still the most fun I have had with an MMO in a long time. But it's already starting to get stale and unlocking another tier of perks doesn't really do much for me.

What really kills it is the level scaling. Your damage, HP, resistances, everything seem directly linked to your level, and while equipment does have an effect, it means that you basically cannot explore beyond a 2ish level area around you - and even if you manage to run past those guys 3-4 levels above you, where does it take you? Another identical town with identical merchants and services as your home city, with quests that you can't complete because the enemies will fuck you up in seconds. Because your damage is scaled it's hard to kill enemies even through sheer perseverance, and as soon as you finish killing one chances are the enemies have already respawned, making it almost impossible to advance further. I've died a bunch of times in a zone, come back after leveling once, and found it a complete cakewalk despite making no changes whatsoever to my build or gear. It just feels way too artificial for my liking.

Enlist in Starfleet.

 

[Ulminati]

Also, I'm playing a necromancer... is it just me or is Death Shroud near useless? Yeah you get a ranged attack, but the cast time means it doesn't do significantly more damage than your regular weapons and the extra abilities suck. It feels more like an escape mechanism to give you a second health bar rather than anything useful for fighting enemies directly.

Death shroud HP are seperate from your real HP. This makes the necro very, very tanky. Once your health gets lowish and your heal is on CD, tap into shroud. Fear + lifedrain everything around you and by the time your shroud ends there's a good chance your regular heal will be up.

Try an elementalist and you'll notice the difference between having shroud and just having cloth armor.

 

[Mortmal]

Also, I'm playing a necromancer... is it just me or is Death Shroud near useless? Yeah you get a ranged attack, but the cast time means it doesn't do significantly more damage than your regular weapons and the extra abilities suck. It feels more like an escape mechanism to give you a second health bar rather than anything useful for fighting enemies directly.

Death shroud HP are seperate from your real HP. This makes the necro very, very tanky. Once your health gets lowish and your heal is on CD, tap into shroud. Fear + lifedrain everything around you and by the time your shroud ends there's a good chance your regular heal will be up.

Try an elementalist and you'll notice the difference between having shroud and just having cloth armor.

Thats not the only thing deathshroud is for, i often see necros running away activating it when low health, thats not the thing to do . Spec a few traits helping death shorud , make it so that the main attack grant you stack of mights it help both power and condition damage, and pick the trait giving vunerability to explosion of life , you should use blood is power (10 might stack now), swarm skill or plague signet to transfer alteration, use poison wells or epidemic whatever you fancy get in in your shorud , shoot main attack until 75% of life force is reached (it get less eficient after) , while in deathshroud your might stack will raise and you will see your condition damage raising really fast, while dealing siginifcant critical damage. Rince and repeat, get in and out of shroud , certainly its not a very convenient rotation, compare to hit 4 buttons face roll warriors, but it works getting down people while having extreme survivability.

 

[Ulminati]

It won't do wonders for your damage vs inanimate objects though, so manatees need not apply.

 

[Average Manatee]

What really kills it is the level scaling. Your damage, HP, resistances, everything seem directly linked to your level, and while equipment does have an effect, it means that you basically cannot explore beyond a 2ish level area around you - and even if you manage to run past those guys 3-4 levels above you, where does it take you? Another identical town with identical merchants and services as your home city, with quests that you can't complete because the enemies will fuck you up in seconds. Because your damage is scaled it's hard to kill enemies even through sheer perseverance, and as soon as you finish killing one chances are the enemies have already respawned, making it almost impossible to advance further. I've died a bunch of times in a zone, come back after leveling once, and found it a complete cakewalk despite making no changes whatsoever to my build or gear. It just feels way too artificial for my liking.

Condition damage isn't scaled, which lets condition-based builds face enemies in the +2-5 level range without a ton of trouble and lets them magically kill enemies 10-15 levels higher then them that regular damage wouldn't even scratch if they have boosted evasion or can kite melee. The problem then becomes: You get practically no reward from fighting those enemies. Drops? Higher level equipment you can't use anyway. Experience? +10-20% for +300% time and instant death from any mistake. Karma? lolz. So even if you have the perfect build to survive and win in higher level areas you are still gimping your advancement compared to grinding faster in lower level areas.

Don't complain about enemies respawning 5 feet behind you though, or Ulminati will call you a noob. He gets upset if you call out shitty MMO mechanics.

 

[Mortmal]

What really kills it is the level scaling. Your damage, HP, resistances, everything seem directly linked to your level, and while equipment does have an effect, it means that you basically cannot explore beyond a 2ish level area around you - and even if you manage to run past those guys 3-4 levels above you, where does it take you? Another identical town with identical merchants and services as your home city, with quests that you can't complete because the enemies will fuck you up in seconds. Because your damage is scaled it's hard to kill enemies even through sheer perseverance, and as soon as you finish killing one chances are the enemies have already respawned, making it almost impossible to advance further. I've died a bunch of times in a zone, come back after leveling once, and found it a complete cakewalk despite making no changes whatsoever to my build or gear. It just feels way too artificial for my liking.

Condition damage isn't scaled, which lets condition-based builds face enemies in the +2-5 level range without a ton of trouble and lets them magically kill enemies 10-15 levels higher then them that regular damage wouldn't even scratch if they have boosted evasion or can kite melee. The problem then becomes: You get practically no reward from fighting those enemies. Drops? Higher level equipment you can't use anyway. Experience? +10-20% for +300% time and instant death from any mistake. Karma? lolz. So even if you have the perfect build to survive and win in higher level areas you are still gimping your advancement compared to grinding faster in lower level areas.

Don't complain about enemies respawning 5 feet behind you though, or Ulminati will call you a noob. He gets upset if you call out shitty MMO mechanics.

No reward indeed , the whole game is built it that way. You can gear up easily , and even get your full set of exotics is trivial, its easier to buy it on ah rather than farming dungeons or buying karma sets, stats will be the same you just get a different look, so you are completing dungeons for the sake of completing them, extra looks,and a few more points to your character score, same for pvp battlegrounds , the outrage ! playing a game being it own reward what were they thinking...
I guess you prefer world of warcraft model with its eternal carrot , a whole set of gear with better stats to get each expansion that wil become obsolete and being forced to grind and raid forever while in gw2 you have the choice to do the sets or not without impending your characters stats .

 

[sea]

No reward indeed , the whole game is built it that way. You can gear up easily , and even get your full set of exotics is trivial, its easier to buy it on ah rather than farming dungeons or buying karma sets, stats will be the same you just get a different look, so you are completing dungeons for the sake of completing them, extra looks,and a few more points to your character score, same for pvp battlegrounds , the outrage ! playing a game being it own reward what were they thinking...

I guess you prefer world of warcraft model with its eternal carrot , a whole set of gear with better stats to get each expansion that wil become obsolete and being forced to grind and raid forever while in gw2 you have the choice to do the sets or not without impending your characters stats .

Well, the problem is kinda that most MMOs have shit gameplay and the carrot is all they have to keep you playing... and Guild Wars 2, while a bit better than usual, still doesn't do much to make the core combat any less tedious than the majority of Warcraft clones out there.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

No reward indeed , the whole game is built it that way. You can gear up easily , and even get your full set of exotics is trivial, its easier to buy it on ah rather than farming dungeons or buying karma sets, stats will be the same you just get a different look, so you are completing dungeons for the sake of completing them, extra looks,and a few more points to your character score, same for pvp battlegrounds , the outrage ! playing a game being it own reward what were they thinking...

I guess you prefer world of warcraft model with its eternal carrot , a whole set of gear with better stats to get each expansion that wil become obsolete and being forced to grind and raid forever while in gw2 you have the choice to do the sets or not without impending your characters stats .

Well, the problem is kinda that most MMOs have shit gameplay and the carrot is all they have to keep you playing... and Guild Wars 2, while a bit better than usual, still doesn't do much to make the core combat any less tedious than the majority of Warcraft clones out there.

The thing that's wrong in GW2 though is that there are simply far too many levels, after level 40 I rarely feel any sense of progression at all, just meaningless rise in all numbers. Similarly, I feel that most skills (both weapon and utility) simply don't feel right, there isn't much of to give you a sense of having a role or purpose, and if you show up at any mass group event (ie, Centaur War that covers a large portion of one zone) you'll just devolve into a faceless part of a faceless mass.

It also hurts the exploration aspect, since seeing adventurers outnumber NPCs everywhere really does wonders for immersion. Which is a shame, since the levels, music, art design and platforming were quite nice. I generally had more fun hiking, climbing and jumping than I ever had fighting. The high point of the game for me was the pirate puzzle dungeon at Lion's Arch (which got a lot better when I managed to lose all the other players there).

 

[Mortmal]

No reward indeed , the whole game is built it that way. You can gear up easily , and even get your full set of exotics is trivial, its easier to buy it on ah rather than farming dungeons or buying karma sets, stats will be the same you just get a different look, so you are completing dungeons for the sake of completing them, extra looks,and a few more points to your character score, same for pvp battlegrounds , the outrage ! playing a game being it own reward what were they thinking...

I guess you prefer world of warcraft model with its eternal carrot , a whole set of gear with better stats to get each expansion that wil become obsolete and being forced to grind and raid forever while in gw2 you have the choice to do the sets or not without impending your characters stats .

Well, the problem is kinda that most MMOs have shit gameplay and the carrot is all they have to keep you playing... and Guild Wars 2, while a bit better than usual, still doesn't do much to make the core combat any less tedious than the majority of Warcraft clones out there.

No indeed, it copied rift events,it removed the holy trinity(tank healer dps) a significant improvment , but its more of the same. I am pretty sure that codexers still playing it are doign it more for the pvp part of the game. I wont do much PVE except some dungeons runs for different looks. Pve is not without strategy in dugeons it at least requires thinking and completementing builds int he group, but it will never beat doing pvp with a team.

 

[Average Manatee]

No reward indeed , the whole game is built it that way. You can gear up easily , and even get your full set of exotics is trivial, its easier to buy it on ah rather than farming dungeons or buying karma sets, stats will be the same you just get a different look, so you are completing dungeons for the sake of completing them, extra looks,and a few more points to your character score, same for pvp battlegrounds , the outrage ! playing a game being it own reward what were they thinking...
I guess you prefer world of warcraft model with its eternal carrot , a whole set of gear with better stats to get each expansion that wil become obsolete and being forced to grind and raid forever while in gw2 you have the choice to do the sets or not without impending your characters stats .

lolwut? Thinking that challenge should = reward instead of punishment means I like WoW? How about I hate WoW and all the shitty MMOs that copy it and would prefer a game that isn't made for drooling retards to waste their life grinding on? Somehow GW1 managed to let you do stuff far above your level for increased challenge and reward just fine. And after that literally 3/4ths of the game was "just for fun" challenges at max level.

No indeed, it copied rift events,it removed the holy trinity(tank healer dps) a significant improvment , but its more of the same. I am pretty sure that codexers still playing it are doign it more for the pvp part of the game. I wont do much PVE except some dungeons runs for different looks. Pve is not without strategy in dugeons it at least requires thinking and completementing builds int he group, but it will never beat doing pvp with a team.

I like how GW2 somehow gets credit for removing the so-called holy trinity simply because Anet marketed it that way to MMOtards when GW1 had already done it. And done it much better.

 

[Mortmal]

If you hate everything mmo, what the fuck are you doing in mmo subforum? Its obvious you are the drooling retard over here,there's hardly any grinding in gw2 and if you want to do pvp(the core of the game) and only that you dont even have to level at all as you get boosted to 80+ gear at the very beggining.Its not about grinding here its all about character builds teamwork and strategy, pretty much the essence of a rpg if you think about it , and thats why so many of us are attracted by it.

Did you play GW1 ? you never had to look for a tank and for a monk to heal ? those two were mandatory in pve groups .Gw2 really removes the holy trinity.

 

[Average Manatee]

If you hate everything mmo, what the fuck are you doing in mmo subforum?

Because this is the RPGCodex, mother fucker.

there's hardly any grinding in gw2

haha oh wow.

Wait, people don't actually think that, do they?

if you want to do pvp(the core of the game) and only that you dont even have to level at all as you get boosted to 80+ gear at the very beggining.

It's obviously not the core of the game. GW2 is PvE. Want proof? 10x as much PvE grind, 1/10th as much PvP content as GW1 had on release. Only 1 PvP map type, with a pathetic selection of maps, next to GW1 which had 4 PvP types with a half dozen different objectives and different sets of maps for each. GW2 even has a gold store, taken almost straight from D3. It's clear Anet only cares about the PvE.

Its not about grinding here its all about character builds teamwork and strategy, pretty much the essence of a rpg if you think about it , and thats why so many of us are attracted by it.

Go play GW1 then, because it's far better in every way (except WvW, which is the only thing that has no analog in GW1 and does bring something genuinely new to the table). But apparently designing an entire build from scratch + class combinations was too hard for the MMOtards, so GW2 dumbs it down to single classes where 90% of your build is pre-determined before you do anything. To say nothing else of the other ways the game has been dumbed down.

Did you play GW1 ? you never had to look for a tank and for a monk to heal ? those two were mandatory in pve groups .Gw2 really removes the holy trinity.

lol. Did you play it? If you did then you were bad at GW1 then. "Tank" builds were entirely useless in that game unless you were soloing. Monster AI for the most part was programmed to just walk right past your tanks and hits your casters, same as a player would. Direct damage mitigation/prot was far superior and every class in the game could do it through some combination of skills. You never needed a monk to heal. In fact, it's far less efficient to bring a pure monk healer than another class that can combine healing and damage at the same time. Ironically enough if you wanted a pure heal/prot build Elementalist was generally the best for it, while Monk was better for nuking. Though you could run a Mo/A with Assassin's Promise, but that took a huge level of skill to utilize in a defensive manner so very few did it. Assassin's Promise was OP for everything in PvE if used perfectly but fucked your build up if you messed up. Nice how GW1 rewards skilled play. But I digress...

Guild Wars 2 removes the holy trinity by removing the tank and healing of party members from the trinity and leaving only damage important, as self healing and damage mitigation is enough for anything (fucking roll move and forced self-heals). After all, 95% of the game is solo and all characters are required to be soloable, which means every character gets enough to survive on their own. And the few ways to support teammates are pathetic compared to the options within Guild Wars 1. Where is Protective Spirit? Where is Reversal of Fortune? Where is Blinding Surge? They don't exist because strong party support would ruin the GW2 paradigm.

To simplify it down for the MMOtards: GW2 removes the trinity by removing any need for real teamwork, GW1 removed the trinity by letting teamwork overcome it.

 

[markec]

You sure do spend lot of time playing a game you loath. Why not go and play TSW which is, in your opinion, far superior in every way?

 

[Average Manatee]

You sure do spend lot of time playing a game you loath. Why not go and play TSW which is, in your opinion, far superior in every way?

Implying that I'm still playing GW2, or even own it?

TSW deserves no attention because I don't rent games.