The Guild Wars 2 Thread

[Metro]

For $10 would buy... if it were on Steam.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Buddy of mine picked this up and I just got off a 3 hour bender of playing with him. Had a good time. Neither of us are poopsockers so just running around and having adventures together was mainly what we're shooting for. I do kinda wish they'd keep the double XP though, that's wonderful. In those 3 hours he went from level 1 to level... 15 I wanna say. I even went from 20 to 25 playing with him through his newbie area.

 

[Zewp]

Double XP? That's P2W! Or so Xenich is going to come tell you any second now.

That's the nice thing about the game. XP in lower level areas isn't completely worthless. You can still level up fairly well and even get level-appropriate drops in lower level areas.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

and even get level-appropriate drops in lower level areas.

... Fuck. I hadn't been leveling shit since I assumed the drops would be low level. Oh well. Probably just as well, I always have a hard time with my bags filling up anyway.

 

[Rahdulan]

That's the nice thing about the game. XP in lower level areas isn't completely worthless. You can still level up fairly well and even get level-appropriate drops in lower level areas.

To be honest they kinda screwed over the starting zones, especially Queensdale, when they turned previously Champion enemies into Veterans which killed the trains that frequented said zones with Champion farming in mind. New players could easily latch on for some free loot and experience.

and even get level-appropriate drops in lower level areas.

... Fuck. I hadn't been leveling shit since I assumed the drops would be low level. Oh well. Probably just as well, I always have a hard time with my bags filling up anyway.

Stuff like sending your crafting materials to storage from anywhere is god-sent.

 

[Nikaido]

 

[Xenich]

Double XP? That's P2W! Or so Xenich is going to come tell you any second now.

That's the nice thing about the game. XP in lower level areas isn't completely worthless. You can still level up fairly well and even get level-appropriate drops in lower level areas.

"No officer, I only raped her a little bit, so it really isn't rape!"

You keep making this argument Zewp. The fact that you think the advantage isn't that big of an advantage doesn''t change what it is.

 

[Xenich]

Buddy of mine picked this up and I just got off a 3 hour bender of playing with him. Had a good time. Neither of us are poopsockers so just running around and having adventures together was mainly what we're shooting for. I do kinda wish they'd keep the double XP though, that's wonderful. In those 3 hours he went from level 1 to level... 15 I wanna say. I even went from 20 to 25 playing with him through his newbie area.

Why bother creating content if the goal is to blow through it so fast that it is meaningless? Why not make a game where people log in, hit a button and wham... they are max level? Wait... why not remove all RPG development aspects? I mean, since going from here to there is a pain and it is only the "there" that is important, why not just allow people to make their end game character at the start? Yeah... no more spell aqusition, no more levels, no more any of that, just the kick ass awesome face rolling play of end game?

/sigh

 

[Zewp]

"No officer, I only raped her a little bit, so it really isn't rape!"

You keep making this argument Zewp. The fact that you think the advantage isn't that big of an advantage doesn''t change what it is.

This is literally double XP for free. So is it Free to Win?

What you're missing here (and both in the ESO thread) is that people play MMOs, and characters, for a variety of reasons. You're crying crocodile tears over XP boosts, which literally aren't going to affect the way the majority of people play a game. Some people want to rush through the content to get to the end-game and they're going to do that regardless of whether they have a 10% XP boost. Other people want to experience all the PvE content and they're going to do that regardless of whether they get a 10% XP boost.

Now you're complaining about a double XP event in GW2, a game where level is literally inconsequential because you scale down to the area you're in and the content remains challenging throughout.

Yes, both GW2 and ESO fit your very loose definition of PTW, but the average MMO gamer doesn't give a shit because this kind of 'PTW' doesn't affect them. Unless of course you're busy leveling your third alt and a double XP weekend saves you a lot of time in which you don't have to work your way through content you've played through three times already, so that you can actually get back to doing things you enjoy a lot faster than otherwise.

I get your point that these games are 'PTW' if you choose to look at them that way. What I don't get is why you choose to be so outraged about it and why you expect people who are literally not affected by it to be outraged alongside you.

 

[SerratedBiz]

hit a button and wham... they are max level?

GW1, in fact, did away with levels for the most part in what is the only non-WoW interesting MMO gameplay to date. Though Prophecies still had a rather gradual level curve, Factions and Nightfall basically pushed you to max level (20) after the tutorial areas and did away with the whole 'unlock as you level' bullshit.

It's only bad if your game is designed around the retarded notion that you need to level up 99 times before you can do the fun stuff.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

so i just bought GW2 for 10 euros via paypal and got email confirmation for the purchase , but no serial code great job Anet and from browsing their fourm i am not the only one with that issue

serves me right for giving money to fucking jews

 

[Avellion]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2tjxe8/pax_announcement_wordforword_transcription_of/

Spoiler

Thank you. Thank you all for being here today, for waiting in line to come and be a part of this really exciting day.

Thank you to everyone watching live on Twitch right now and joining us. I know some of you woke up early, some of you are still in your pajamas, some of you, you're getting ready for bed - we really appreciate you all coming to join us for this really exciting day for Guild Wars 2.

I've been waiting a long time to be able to walk up here on this stage and tell all of you: I'm about to tell you every major feature of our first expansion, Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns.

But before I do that, [groaning], let's take a minute and just recap how we got to this point today. So, over the course of 40 living story episodes, we've watched the living world of Tyria evolve and change. We've discovered new lands, and watched as some that we loved were destroyed. And through it all, we've experienced a truly living story line, and environment, where the story of our game continued to progress and build. And all of those episodes were building toward this here today. In the final episode of Season 2, we witnessed the Durmand Priory, the Vigil, the Order of Whispers, and the five major allied races board the Pact ship as the fleet took flight to head to the jungle, to hunt down, kill, and destroy the elder dragon Mordremoth and its minions. As the fleet entered the jungle, the jungle came to life, and the Sylvari race turned against them. They heard the call of Mordremoth, and many of them joined with the dragon, and within a matter of minutes, the entire Pact fleet was destroyed, torn out of the sky, and the remains of that fleet now rest across the top of the jungle. So all of us have lost our world's army. We've lost our great hope of defeating this elder dragon.

And who's left? It's all of us here today in this room, it's all of you watching on Twitch. Look around you - someone sitting around you is probably going to be playing a dynamic event with you sometime soon. All of you are going into the jungle and with one step, we go into our very first feature, the Heart of Maguuma, the new area that we will be able to explore in Guild Wars 2 Heart of Thorns. [splash screen saying Journey into the Heart of Maguuma, followed by clips from the trailer showing the zone.]

Now as Mo [Mike O'Brien] said earlier, the maps in the Heart of Maguuma are some of the richest, deepest content experiences that we have ever built in GW2. The game space is tremendous, the amount of space that you can play in, and the jungle is made up of three distinct biomes: The Core (the jungle floor itself), The Roots of the jungle that run deep beneath the jungle itself, and The Canopy, high above, where the remains of the Pact fleet are scattered across the top of the jungle. You're going to get to go and explore all of these areas, from the very depths, to the very top of the jungle, and as you explore, you'll find a secret that the last known good dragon, Glint, left hidden in the jungle for us, right as the story of Guild Wars 1 concluded. And now, hundreds of years later, we will go into the jungle, and find that secret, and find Glint's legacy.

We're going to discover a lot of other things in the jungle as well. As Mo said, a big focus for us is developing really challenging content for you to overcome. So we're doing to be developing new types of content experiences that you'll find in the jungle. New challenges for you, new challenges for you and your groups and your guild. And as we build to the point of the launch of the expansion, we'll come back and tell about each of those in a lot more detail. You're going to find new rewards and achievements, new types of content to experience, new creatures, new civilizations - all of this awaits you inside the Heart of Maguuma.

Now the Heart of Maguuma is built with the same core philosophy that we applied to all of the content that we built for Gw2 from the very beginning: when you see another player, the game should be more fun. Everyone can rez. Dynamic events can change the world for everyone. You don't have to read quest text to decide what you're going to go do. You play in our world and are immersed in it, and play along with everyone else. We think that experience is fundamentally one of the things that sets Guild Wars 2 apart, and we are taking that to the next level inside the Heart of Maguuma, to make that experience even richer and better, so when you see another player, the experience is that much cooler. And we know we can do that, because we have you guys, the friendliest, most welcoming community in online gaming.

So as we journey through the jungle, one of the things that we're going to need to do to overcome all these challenges that await us, to master the experience of the jungle - we're going to need new abilities. And so, we come to our next feature: the mastery sytem.

The mastery system is an account-based, PvE progression system. As you progress through the jungle, it is available to every character you have that is level 80 - you will complete content and overcome challenges in the jungle that reward you with mastery points. What are some examples? As you complete elements of the story, you will be rewarded with mastery points. As you reach hard to find and hard to reach locations, as you defeat incredible challenges and incredible group challenges, you will be rewarded with mastery points. As you complete exploring entire maps, you are rewarded with mastery points. As you complete challenging achievements, that send you on journeys across the jungle and beyond, you will be rewarded with mastery points. And you can spend these mastery points to purchase abilities that are available for every PvE character on your account - so you don't have to go in and progress every one of your characters over and over again. You do it once, this is all part of our no-grind philosophy for Guild Wars 2.

So what kinds of things are the mastery system going to let you do? What can you master within the jungle? Well our game offers a lot of rich, deep experiences, and a lot of things that players enjoy doing, so let's talk first about exploration. So, picture for me a moment - it's very common in GW2 today - you're climbing to get to the highest point on the map. In the jungle, that's a much higher point than you have ever been before. You're jumping and you're climning and you're looking down, and every minute you're like "Oh I'm about to fall... nope... nope..." you keep going, you get all the way to the very top, the top of the jungle, standing on the tip of the crashed pact flagship. And what do we do in Guild Wars 2 when we get to the highest point in a map? [crowd shouts JUMP!] Yes! We jump!! And what follows is an epic journey to meet the ground, followed by a splat! And thankfully, because we have the friendliest community in online gaming, usually a swarm of players run in from out of nowhere (I have no idea where they come from, I'm sure you've all had that experience) and suddenly, you're rezzed and brought back in the action, because in GW2 everyone can rez..

Well, in Heart of Thorns, no more. When you jump from the highest point on the map, if you've spent mastery points, you will be able to master the ability to hang glide and leisurely fly. As you spend more mastery points, you will get better at using your hang glider. You will be able to ride gusts of wind across the map to reach hard-to-reach locations, to get higher up in the map, to get to locations that you normally would never be able to get to. So, hang gliding is an example of how the mastery system will allow you to master exploration within the jungle.

Let's talk next about lore. GW2 has an incredible deep and rich lore and history, stretching back over a decade now. And we want to give people the opportunity to master the lore of the jungle itself. So, you'll be able to spend mastery points to be able to master the languages of the civilizations deep within the jungle, and as you learn those languages, you're going to learn the history of those civilizations, the secrets of those civiizlations, and you'll even gain access to hidden locations that those civilizations have buried away, that only those who can speak and understand the language will be able to access. That's an example of how our mastery system will allow you to master the lore of GW2.

So, let's talk next about combat. Combat is a key component of the guild wars experience. It's action-based, it's exciting, it's cooperative; players can put down fields and combo fields that you can come up and take advantage of... so we wanted to build on that system and we want to provide real meaningful challenges and abilities (in our mastery system) that allow you to overcome those. So as you progress through the jungle, you're going to encounter new creatures, new bosses, and new types of group content that you have never seen before. And you're going to need abilities to survive against those battles, against those bosses, against that content. The mastery system will allow you to learn abilities that help you survive against, overcome, and defeat the creatures within the jungle, and grow in your ability to fight in combat in GW2.

Now, I'm not going to give too many details on this today. Between now and the launch of the expansion, we'll come back and tell you a lot more about the different types of abilities you'll be able to gain in combat through the mastery sytem, but know that this is the way that we're going to provide meaningful progression to all of your characters for PvE past level 80 within the jungle itself, and you'll be able to master combat, using the mastery system.

Finally, another example of something that you'll be able to master with the mastery system, something that I think a lot of you love today if you're a GW2 fan, is collecting, crafting and building. It's a big component of GW2. And when I think of mastering collecting, crafting and building, I think legendary weapon is the ultimate version of crafting and collecting in GW2. So, there's one component to building a legendary that is the hardest component to that experience - can you guys tell me what you think that is? [PRECURSORRRRSSS] Did you say precursor! oh that's it! Yay! Clearly we need to do something about that... the mastery system will allow you to build out collections that send you on epic journeys across the world of Guild Wars 2, that, once completed, will reward you with precursor weapons to set you on your journey to building a legendary.

I know some of you have been waiting a while to hear that one, so there you go! So on top of this, we're also going to be introducing brand-new legendary weapons, and brand-new legendary precursors. Alright. So the mastery system is a comprehensive, PvE end-game progression system that builds on the pillars of GW2, that builds on the "no invalidating your hard work", on the "no-grind" philosophy, by being available to all your characters, and it complements the concept that the journey should be the goal in GW2. As you progress through the system, the journey gets more fun, instead of having to wait until you someday reach some mythical goal that everything becomes available to you. Instead, it's a system that constantly provides fun, excitement, and true, meaningful progression.

And you might be wondering - the system doesn't sound like it gives me skills or traits. What is GW2 doing to give me those for my characters? Well, the answer to that question takes us to our next major feature of Guild Wars 2 Heart of Thorns: specializations.

The specialization system will allow each profession to master a new specialization that grows that profession into something new - almost a secondary profession, if you will. So I could stop now and not tell you anything, and you could have to wait and find out, or I could tell you one of them... what do you think? [screaming] Okay... so.. as we go into the jungle, there is a rich druidic history in the jungle, so it is only fitting that rangers be able to learn and master the abilities of the druid within the jungle, and so, rangers will be able to grow themselves to become a druid. And when they do so, they will have available to them - they can use the staff weapon, which a ranger could never use before. Along with that, when a ranger becomes a druid, they will have access to a new heal skill, a new elite skill, a new set of utility skills, and most importantly, new profession mechanics that fundamentally change the way the ranger plays if they turn into a druid.

So I'm going to tease you a little bit, because I really like to do that, with a part of one more specialization. You've all seen it before, if you've been following living world season 2, and you've been wondering, why does ArenaNet really like giving all these necromancers greatswords? And we've greatly enjoyed watching from a distance as you all debate why it is that they all get greatswords and why Marjory was learning how to use one. And the answer is, we've known the necromancer specialization will allow necromancers to make use of the greatsword weapon. So between now and the launch of the expansion, we're going to come back and tell you about each specialization available to all the professions that we didn't tell you about here today, so you're going to have to wait and ride that journey out, but we really look forward to coming back and tell you about each of them between now and the expansion's launch.

We're also not going to talk about when, today, ya'll just have to wait and see. When it's readyTM.

So you've got your druid, and you're thinking to yourself, "I'd like to start a new character. It's time for me to start anew." Or you might be thinking, "I've never played Gw2 before, and when this new expansion comes out, I want to be starting on equal footing with everybody else - I want to make a new character that noone else has had before as well." And so we sat down and we talked about "What is the perfect thing that complements what we have today?" And we have three light armored professions, and we have three medium armored professions - there's only two heavy armor professions. There... I feel like something's missing- there's a hole - there's a gap that needed to be filled. And so, our next feature for GW2:HOT is our brand new profession: The Revenant.

And you all have seen the revenant before whether you realized it or not: not long ago, in season 2, Rytlock went into the mists chasing after his incredible powerful ancient magical sword. And since then, we've seen images of Rytlock appear, wearing a blindfold such as this [image on screen], wearing a new set of armor we haven't seen before, and we haven't heard back from him since. Well, when our expansion launches, Rytlock will be returning as the very first Rrevenant, and he will be bringing with him the abilities to channel and control the powers of the mists. In combat, the revenant as a heavy armored profession, will be able to use the powers of the mists to channel its abilities into its weapon, as well as into its utility, heal, and elite skills. Now the revenant does something a little bit different: the revenant channels the powers of great legends from Guild Wars' past, and uses those to help power the skills it has available to it. So let's talk about some examples. King Jalis Ironhammer, the great dwarf, is one of the legends that the revenant will be able to channel. And when channeling King Jalis, the powers and abilities of the great dwarves of years past will become available to the revenant to use in combat and change its skills. The demon Malix, buried at the heart of the domain of anguish, is available to the revenant as a legend they can channel and power to control the power of conditions and use them in combat to defeat their enemies.

These are just two examples of the legends that will be available to the revenant. And between now and the release of the expansion, we will come back and tell you about each of the other legends, and the abilites that come with them, the revenant will be able to channel to use to power its skills in combat.

So, you've got your revenant, you're traveling through the jungle, you're gaining mastery points and building your characters, and you stop and think, "I'm having a great time, but it's time for me to go kill another person. (And please stick to just in the game!) And luckily for you, GW2 offers two fantastic PvP modes for you to do just that. So let's start out by talking about World versus World.

So for those of you who might not be familiar with WvW, this is our epic, large-scale PvP combat. This is hundreds of players fighting in giant battles for control of towers, castles, epic keep sieges with trebuchets and catapults firing, with armies running to gates to bash them down with battering rams, and entire hordes of siege golems marching to destroy keeps and take control of them. I guarantee you, if you have never seen this experience, you have to check it out! There's really nothing else like it. It is an epic scale of PvP. And we want to grow that experience, with GW2:HoT; we want to take that concept of you being inside of an RTS game - you're a troop, you're the commander, you're a scout - you're literally experiencing what it feels like to be inside of an RTS. We want to make that even better. And so, our next major feature for GW2:HoT is our brand new WvW borderland map that will be added to the borderland rotation.

The new borderland is the most diverse WvW borderland map that we have ever built. It is one of the largest and deepest content experiences that you will find, period, in the game. Each keep has its own distinct theme, and holding the objectives around that keep provide abilities to the world that controls it. So defending and holding your objectives will become a much more important component of GW2's WvW experience. For example, you can see here, this is the Earth keep, and if you control the shrines and locations near the Earth keep, the keep itself will literally raise up parts of the ground to defend itself when enemy armies attack. If you control the Fire keep, magma pools will come available for your entire army to leap into and traverse through the map more quickly as they can move between lava pools.

Now, holding these objectives provides you with these abilities for your world, but we don't want to stop there and just give that concept to our new borderland map. We want to fundamentally change the way that WvW works, so that when you battle so hard to take control of a major objective, if you fight for an hour to take Stonemist Castle, keeping it should be important. Holding that objective should be a bigger part of victory in WvW. So we're going to be making changes to the core WvW experience so holding objectives is a bigger part of victory across the board in all components of WvW.

So GW2 has a second major component of PvP, and that is our competitive PvP. This is small teams, typically 5-on-5, highly organized, competing against one another to prove who are the best players and the best teams in the world. We've had a lot of recent success with our competitive PvP mode. We recently held our first ever World Tournament Series Championship, live in Beijing, it was broadcast live on television in China, and broadcast globally on Twitch, for everyone to watch and enjoy. Despite the successes of competitive PvP, we feel like there's a lot of room for that to grow and become even more exciting. And so, we're going to be introducing, to competitve PvP, a brand-new game mode call Stronghold.

Now, Stronghold may sound a little familiar to some of you, going back to the days of Guild Wars. It may sound a little bit like an evolution, maybe, of something that you once experienced. So what do you do in a Stronghold map? Well, you and your team fight for control of supply, you spend supply to hire troops, and you (and the troops that you hire) assault the enemy's stronghold. You destroy the gates to battle inside their stronghold, you find their guild lord, you kill their guild lord to win. Along the way, you're going to find heroes that you can win onto your side that join you, and join the assault on the enemy's stronghold, to help you win and destroy their guild lord.

So we feel like if we're going to give you this experience, this next step in what people might remember from the original GW there's another component that needs to come along with this game mode, to provide the entire experience.. and that's the ability to know which guild is the best at PvP in the world. So when you battle in our brand-new Stronghold game mode, you're going to be able to form guild teams. Guild teams are teams of players that represent a specific guild, and they register on a guild leaderboard, and as they battle against one another, the guild teams move up the leaderboards, so you can once and for all prove who are the best guilds in the world.

Alright, so that's a component for Guilds and PvP, but Guilds make up such a core backbone of the entire GW2 community. You know, when we talk about having the friendliest community in online gaming, a big component of that is because we have the friendliest guilds, the best guilds in online gaming that you'll ever find. And so, we want to grow and add to that guild experience as part of HoT. And that takes us to our final major feature of GW2:HoT - I think you've all been waiting a long time to hear this one.... Guild halls!! [audience goes nuts]

So what is a Guild Halls in GW2? - seems like you guys might like that one just a little bit! - a Guild hall in GW2 is much more than what it's been in the past. A guild hall is not just a home for your guild, it's a place for you and your friends to gather, to organize, to host events - it's a guild place for you to build, and progress your guild, and to build and progress your guild hall. As you build out your guild hall, you and your members will be able to go on great adventures. You can organize and prepare for your guild missions, and to go into the jungle to face the incredible new challenges that await you. These guild halls provide you with a home base for you to build and grow your guild for years to come, and a core hub for your social community.

And so, in total:

• our new region, the Heart of Maguuma
• our new progression system, the Mastery system
• our new specialization system opening every profession up a new way to grow and progress their profession
• our new profession, the Revenant
• our new WvW borderland, and fundamental changes to WvW
• our new PvP game mode, Stronghold, and guild teams, so that you can compete and prove who are the best guilds in the world,
• and finally, Guild Halls

make up a comprehensive package that is our re-imagining of where Guild Wars 2 can go in the future. All of these features make up a core experience that provides a deep, compelling growth to the world of GW2. It answers fundamental questions of where GW2 can go in the future, and builds back to the core philosophy that we set out when we started to build GW2 long ago - that is, that the journey should be the goal - and each of these features complements that. We cannot wait to take that journey with all of you.

I want to say a huge thank-you to every single one of you for being here today, for being a part of this. Thank you again to everyone watching live on stream. I know you now have more questions - hundreds of questions that you would like to ask, and between now and the launch of the expansion, we're going to give you all the details to all the questions that you could ever want to know. [laughter]

(at this point he re-introduces Jennifer Hale)..... thank you all so much, and we'll see you in game.

 

[Xenich]

I get your point that these games are 'PTW' if you choose to look at them that way. What I don't get is why you choose to be so outraged about it and why you expect people who are literally not affected by it to be outraged alongside you.

I guess you are right... I shouldn't object to it, I mean... who cares right? I will just go play a game that doesn't cater to such...

Hmm... Wait... none exist anymore because they either make the new ones to fit the majority you speak of or they destroy an older game to appeal to the same crowd.

Nobody is affected by it, you are so very correct. /boggle

 

[Xenich]

hit a button and wham... they are max level?

GW1, in fact, did away with levels for the most part in what is the only non-WoW interesting MMO gameplay to date. Though Prophecies still had a rather gradual level curve, Factions and Nightfall basically pushed you to max level (20) after the tutorial areas and did away with the whole 'unlock as you level' bullshit.

It's only bad if your game is designed around the retarded notion that you need to level up 99 times before you can do the fun stuff.

I tried GW1 when it was released, it was ok, I wasn't huge fan of the style of play.

As "level up 99 times before you can do the fun stuff", that is entirely subjective. I have seen people argue every aspect of play as being mundane, boring, pointless, redundant and there really is no way to appeal to them. They just want to be leveled to max because they think being end level is where all the cool kids are. It is a shame though as that mentality has destroyed games like EQ2. They have 11 expansions and people want to skip all that content to rush off to the end. Waht is even more pathetic is that they allow people to skip it now, but only after years of dumbing down the original content to where it is pointless shit in the first place. MMOs are more of a social face book program than they are a game these days. /shrug

 

[Avellion]

So I have been hearing rumors that the game will only have one specialization per profession at launch.

How exactly can the devs compare this to the multiclassing system of GW1 if this is the case?

 

[SerratedBiz]

As "level up 99 times before you can do the fun stuff", that is entirely subjective. I have seen people argue every aspect of play as being mundane, boring, pointless, redundant and there really is no way to appeal to them. They just want to be leveled to max because they think being end level is where all the cool kids are. It is a shame though as that mentality has destroyed games like EQ2. They have 11 expansions and people want to skip all that content to rush off to the end. Waht is even more pathetic is that they allow people to skip it now, but only after years of dumbing down the original content to where it is pointless shit in the first place. MMOs are more of a social face book program than they are a game these days. /shrug

The game is designed so you overcome these places because, being level-dependent, there's no real point in doing them after you've outgrown their usefulness. The game is also designed in a way that tells you that leveling is good as it gives you more skills, more power, the ability to access more content and places, and gain better loot. Gameplay at lvl1 is absolutely not as fun as gameplay at level max, because lvl1 is where the noobs are and level max is where the people who're good at the game are. Or that's what it hints at.

Why not make the dungeon's level scale to the difficulty of your party? If the content is interesting in itself and the only reason you're not doing it is because it was meant for the stick-wielding peasant instead of the rod-wielding novice magic user, that's a shitty reason not to be doing it again. There's no reason why the content can't scale dynamically in such a way that you can complete it at any time, at any point, as long as the player skill required to complete it remains constant.

GW2, incidentally, does this. Dungeons are level-locked but content isn't, therefore you could keep rushing the lv20 dungeon all the way to lv80 if you so wished. And if you enjoyed the challenge, you were most certainly welcome to do so. I found it had a great skill-reward ratio and would run that dungeon many times a day instead of delving into the world content which was, in contrast, much less respondent to player skill since it mostly devolved to people rushing through waypoints in huge groups to complete shit as fast as possible.

So why have levels in the first place? Why make you wait until lv80 before you can access all the cool dungeons, and have all the skill points, and have all the trait points, when you could NOT and instead reward skill and build-based progression?

 

[SerratedBiz]

How exactly can the devs compare this to the multiclassing system of GW1 if this is the case?

I don't know what the devs think but, from reading the transcript, it's nothing like the secondary profession in GW1. You basically have your main class which can specialize into subroutes of itself. So you can't specialize a Warrior into a Mesmer, for example, since the Warrior subtypes are something like dualwielder and twohander.

It's more akin to Lineage II or WoW specs than to GW1 secondaries.

 

[Avellion]

How exactly can the devs compare this to the multiclassing system of GW1 if this is the case?

I don't know what the devs think but, from reading the transcript, it's nothing like the secondary profession in GW1. You basically have your main class which can specialize into subroutes of itself. So you can't specialize a Warrior into a Mesmer, for example, since the Warrior subtypes are something like dualwielder and twohander.

It's more akin to Lineage II or WoW specs than to GW1 secondaries.

Someone brought up a prestige class comparison, which may be a good comparison, assuming that each class can only access one prestige class.

 

[Zewp]

I guess you are right... I shouldn't object to it, I mean... who cares right? I will just go play a game that doesn't cater to such...

Hmm... Wait... none exist anymore because they either make the new ones to fit the majority you speak of or they destroy an older game to appeal to the same crowd.

Nobody is affected by it, you are so very correct. /boggle

Alright, please tell me how it negatively affects you if some random dude on the game levels up 10% faster than you? How does that affect how you approach the content?

 

[SerratedBiz]

How exactly can the devs compare this to the multiclassing system of GW1 if this is the case?

I don't know what the devs think but, from reading the transcript, it's nothing like the secondary profession in GW1. You basically have your main class which can specialize into subroutes of itself. So you can't specialize a Warrior into a Mesmer, for example, since the Warrior subtypes are something like dualwielder and twohander.

It's more akin to Lineage II or WoW specs than to GW1 secondaries.

Someone brought up a prestige class comparison, which may be a good comparison, assuming that each class can only access one prestige class.

That's what I'm thinking too. Again, more stuff for your class. They mentioned new Elite, more utility skills, chance to use a different weapon (which means a different 1-5 skillset). But you don't get to dip in a different class's stuff ala GW1.

 

[Xenich]

The game is designed so you overcome these places because, being level-dependent, there's no real point in doing them after you've outgrown their usefulness. The game is also designed in a way that tells you that leveling is good as it gives you more skills, more power, the ability to access more content and places, and gain better loot. Gameplay at lvl1 is absolutely not as fun as gameplay at level max, because lvl1 is where the noobs are and level max is where the people who're good at the game are. Or that's what it hints at.

Game play is great at level 1. You have few skills, you are learning your way, everything is dangerous, you have to be careful. When you start a game fresh, the world is new, what lies around the corner is the adventure. This obsession with having to be the next level as fast as you can is an immature mentality. The journey is the point and EQ2's content (at least before they dumbed it down) was rather open, vast.... in that you could experience multiple areas at any give level. Those who power up fast are not just noobs, for if they were level 1, they would have the excuse of learning. Those who level to max have no clue how to play because they skipped what would normally be a learning time over the levels. Though, games these days are so retardedly easy, I guess you may have a point. In the early days, if you were power leveled up, you were worthless. Seen it a million times.

Why not make the dungeon's level scale to the difficulty of your party? If the content is interesting in itself and the only reason you're not doing it is because it was meant for the stick-wielding peasant instead of the rod-wielding novice magic user, that's a shitty reason not to be doing it again. There's no reason why the content can't scale dynamically in such a way that you can complete it at any time, at any point, as long as the player skill required to complete it remains constant.

Then how can you test your ability against the content? If the content is always scaled "within" level, then I can't push the limits with my group. I have played games that scale the dungeons and to be honest... they are boring as all get out. Though if the dungeon level was static, you could try a dungeon a bit above you for the challenge. Also, with static dungeons, you solo/duo them as you begin to level above them. Many times I have done that with various games. It was enjoyable to be able to go back to a dungeon and work my way through it slowly solo or with a friend. EQ2/Vanguard even put in mentoring systems so you could mentor down to another players level and experience the content. So... having such is a matter of taste. I am not saying a scaled dungeon is shit, but... scaled dungeons are not an "evolution" of play, they are a "style" of play to which people may or may not enjoy.

GW2, incidentally, does this. Dungeons are level-locked but content isn't, therefore you could keep rushing the lv20 dungeon all the way to lv80 if you so wished. And if you enjoyed the challenge, you were most certainly welcome to do so. I found it had a great skill-reward ratio and would run that dungeon many times a day instead of delving into the world content which was, in contrast, much less respondent to player skill since it mostly devolved to people rushing through waypoints in huge groups to complete shit as fast as possible.

So why have levels in the first place? Why make you wait until lv80 before you can access all the cool dungeons, and have all the skill points, and have all the trait points, when you could NOT and instead reward skill and build-based progression?

Nothing wrong with that, but it is again as I said... a taste in play. Levels are one way to express progression, skill points are another way, and there are numerous other approaches as well. Again, they aren't linear eovlutions, they are specific styles of play.

Though here is the thing. Level progression makes sense when you have long term progression (ie you spend quite a bit of time per each level). Also, think of leveled content not like WoW where they tailor and entire dungeon to a very specific target level. Think of EQ/Vanguard, etc... where dungeons were HUGE and levels of mobs were varied greatly. You wouldn't run into the dungeon in a 5 min rush to the end. You spent weeks, sometimes months in them because you couldn't progress through them in a single level range. See, your argument is pretty good if we consider linear based small level focused content like WoW and other games, but not wide open games like EQ, Vanguard, and similar. Levels work fine in such a system and the gameplay becomes not about "getting to the next level fast!" /derp, but about exploring and defeating the content at your current level. Some obsessed over levels in EQ, blowing through the levels, but they were WoWtards of EQ and were often ridiculued for it (nothing like seeing some stupid fucking necro at 60 still wearing shit low level gear) because they couldn't handle group content at that level due to there piss poor grouping skills and the fact that they never progressed their gear correctly. It isn't about the levels, it is about the content and it is a shame to see so many people piss on content just so the can hit max level. Besides, I think max level is the worst part of the game. You have long raids where you sit with your thumb up your ass waiting to get gear. The Dungeons are on farm and everything is a stupid "daily" like gimmick of farming... for what? Every time new content is released, it invalidates all the gear you obtained.

End game fucking sucks. It is the worst part of every MMO I have ever played and I have raided top end in a lot of them. My found memories of the games were not the end content, but the progression through the content.

 

[Xenich]

I guess you are right... I shouldn't object to it, I mean... who cares right? I will just go play a game that doesn't cater to such...

Hmm... Wait... none exist anymore because they either make the new ones to fit the majority you speak of or they destroy an older game to appeal to the same crowd.

Nobody is affected by it, you are so very correct. /boggle

Alright, please tell me how it negatively affects you if some random dude on the game levels up 10% faster than you? How does that affect how you approach the content?

Read back through my points. It doesn't affect how I approach content, it affects how content is designed.

Anyway, lets stop derailing the thread. You like PTW, grats... you are the average MMO player these days. Enjoy!

 

[Wilian]

Saying progression accelerators aren't pay to win is like telling IDKFA isn't really a cheat because it only gives you all weapons rather finishing the game for you.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

1 hour of quality gameplay:

 

[Darth Roxor]

yes this is definitely the guild wars experience just as i remember it!!!