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Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,777
You can ramp up the difficulty level without increased xp gain, which is not a thing in vanilla.

The more interesting angle, though, is that with all the kits available you can create a severely underpowered party that still retains balance and flavor. The only problem is that some of the shitty kits, like wizard slayer, kinda make sense in the context of BG2, but not so much in IWD. So sometimes it will feel like you're gimping yourself for bonuses that are not only not that good in the first place, but also rarely even applicable. But the game will be undeniably more difficult.
 

KainenMorden

Educated
Patron
Joined
Aug 19, 2022
Messages
938
Codex Year of the Donut
You can ramp up the difficulty level without increased xp gain, which is not a thing in vanilla.

The more interesting angle, though, is that with all the kits available you can create a severely underpowered party that still retains balance and flavor. The only problem is that some of the shitty kits, like wizard slayer, kinda make sense in the context of BG2, but not so much in IWD. So sometimes it will feel like you're gimping yourself for bonuses that are not only not that good in the first place, but also rarely even applicable. But the game will be undeniably more difficult.
Right, ramping up difficulty in vanilla makes it easier in the long run. I feel the same way about certain multi classes going solo.

I suppose you'd have to not use half orcs, dual wielding and you could gimp the party in various ways. Wizard slayer and Beast master are probably the weakest warrior kits that I can think of, any others in the context of IWD?

Id also always play IWD with atleast 1 mage and 1 cleric and typically a druid too, not familiar with the BG2 kits with those, I never bothered with them.
 

KainenMorden

Educated
Patron
Joined
Aug 19, 2022
Messages
938
Codex Year of the Donut

I believe the EE has its own version of SCS now but it is in the early stages of development and reportedly buggy so I haven't tried it.
It has gone through 17 sub-revisions already, it's not particularly buggy atm. You should try it.
Thanks, I'll take a look, I suppose it's been quite a long time since I checked on the progress of it.

I also just don't like IWD in the EE engine, mainly because of the differences in spells but if it is balanced to be a decent combat challenge, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

I think DavidW is an amazing individual for all the work he's done on SCS but I'm not sure if I agree with how he sees game balance. IWD spells in BG2 certainly aren't balanced and SCS enemies don't do a good job dealing with them though it's been about a year since I last did a run and I think there's a new version of SCS out now.
 

Eldrin

Novice
Joined
May 28, 2024
Messages
90
I tried to replay it recently, but it's such a borefest. I quit after over 5 hours in.

The game is focused on combat and treats the rest as a mere background. Not many dialogs or quests. Audiovisuals are great, and music is worth to listen even outside the game. However, the boring, repetitive and mostly unchallenging combat makes Icewind Dale a dull waste of time. Perhaps if it wasn't so linear, had less trash mobs and allowed more exploration it could be better, but it's not. You just follow long corridors to kill more trash mobs and once in a while a boss. Aesthetics cannot save it. It's a cheap and quickly made game to raise some money on the Baldur's Gate's engine before releasing BG's sequel and it lets you know about it every minute of the gameplay. I'm surprised back in the day I had enough patience to finish both Icewind Dales, although I remember being bored plenty of time. As an adult even some nostalgia can't hold me on.
I've learned recently that there are many hidden special dialogues and interactions depending on race and class that trigger once a party member interacts with given NPCs, sadly it only triggers if you interact with that specific party member fulfilling given requirement to trigger the talk. So if you aren't using a guide, you would have to interact with all six party chars to check if you have any new dialogues triggering - which kinda sucks.

Have you tried the Icewind Dale NPC mod? Adds 5 pre-gen companions at the start of the game with connection to lore tidbits and questlines given in IWD 1. The writing is nice, the VO is a bit janky, but overall adds some much needed banters enlivening the experience. Wouldn't have completed the game without it.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,184
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
IWD is pure-combat version of IWD, so the quest and dialog is noticeably sparser.

nevertheless, there's some. Like the quest with that lady of the lake and the fisherman, it has different choice for bard, paladin and etc...
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,611
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I've learned recently that there are many hidden special dialogues and interactions depending on race and class that trigger once a party member interacts with given NPCs, sadly it only triggers if you interact with that specific party member fulfilling given requirement to trigger the talk. So if you aren't using a guide, you would have to interact with all six party chars to check if you have any new dialogues triggering - which kinda sucks.

It would be cool if there was a mod to let you switch between characters during dialogue, Storm of Zehir-style. This would probably require source code access to implement though.
 

Eldrin

Novice
Joined
May 28, 2024
Messages
90
Adds 5 pre-gen companions at the start of the game with connection to lore tidbits and questlines given in IWD 1. The writing is nice, the VO is a bit janky, but overall adds some much needed banters enlivening the experience. Wouldn't have completed the game without it.
Really?
I do recommend it. Some mods have better written dialogues than many new games of today. The characters had enough personality and fun scenes to stay in my memory even after probably 2-3 years since I last played IWD, so I would say the mod was done well enough.
 

Snufkin

Augur
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
556
Im staring at IWD 2 Enchanced edition. Monks get 18 unarmed attacks per round on level 49. :P :o

Does anyone here played IWD2EE yet? Im still theorycrafting party.
 

Jigby

Augur
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
395
Monks get 18 unarmed attacks per round on level 49. :P :o
Yeah, this kind of stuff is enough to put me off. I enjoyed IWD2 being toned down compared to Throne of Bhaal. So no, I haven't tried the content changes... but do report :)
 

Snufkin

Augur
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
556
Monks get 18 unarmed attacks per round on level 49. :P :o
Yeah, this kind of stuff is enough to put me off. I enjoyed IWD2 being toned down compared to Throne of Bhaal. So no, I haven't tried the content changes... but do report :)
Ok, lets hope it wont end up being massive wall of text.

First of all there is option to increase lvl cap to 49 during instalation. It's mostly for those who plan to play HoF mode. Normal game will end around 17-19 level.

There is build-in cnc-ddraw which is execelent. It is advised to uninstall ddraw fix provided by Gog version of the game before you start install Enchanced Edition.

There is now lootbar just like the one from Beamdog EE's. This is HUGE improvement.

During installation you can chose what you want to install.

Many of races have been reworked. Now elves get "search" all the time, just like in Neverwinter nights which makes them excelent thieves.
One of the halfling subraces get 1.5x dmg from strenght when using sling. There are more changes when it comes to races but I wont list them all here.

Classes has also been reworked.

Fighter now can get greater specialization. They also get crit chance incerease and dmg every 5 levels. They can chose "Kensai" feat at level 1. What it does it gives you +1 to attack and damage every 3 level but prohibits you from using armors exept robes. They are dmg GODs if you give them Two-handed weapon.

Barbarians are ultimate tanks. They benefit most from using medium armors which gives them even more damage reduction. Barbarian rage now also gives some immunities. Dwarves make best race here because they start with 20 CON and some essential feats that enchance tankiness are locked by CON stat.

Monks have been reworked. They start with 2 APR at level 1 and increase it by 1 per 3 levels. Their unarmed damage is now capped at 1-8+5.

Rogues now are more useful. More traps and locked chests and doors, and stuff to pickpocket. Drows makes best race here because rogues can take exp penalty. They can max all rogue skills

and social skills. With micromanagement they can dish some serious dmg by hiting monsters in the back. Or stay away and shoot stuff. They also get extra luck per 5 levels.

Wizards now can chose 2 spells per level.

Sorcerers can now replace some spells depending on level.

Rangers get manyshot and improved two weapon fighting earlier then others. They also get spells as early as level 2 (same with Paladin). Favored enemies now give +4 dmg.

Paladins get buffed. No longer need to be level 28 to unlock 6 level spells. Now they are avaible at 18 level. They get some boosts for other things aswell.

Bards now get better songs. Not much to say here.

Druids now can cast in shifted form if they take proper feat (requires 13 charisma). They can also spend feats on new exotic shapes. Blink dog can teleport, Rhino beetle is large so he can

block hallways and prevent ambushes. Creeping doom can lock on casters and have high piercing dmg reduction.

Clerics .. have some of the domain spells changed and abilities depending on order have been changed.


Spells have been reworked. Biggest highlight are teleport spells that let you teleport entire party to previously explored space. Or recall rogue who failed on hide check.

From watching videos on youtube, normal difficulty is more difficult now. Lost followers fight in Kuldahar graveyard IS EXTREME and will make SCS players cry.

Some of puzzles like battle squares or Volcano map has been reworked. (this is huge thing).
Lot of casters are now prebuffed. Some easy strategies might not work vs them

This all is only tip of a ICEBERG , there is a lot more changes.

ALSO ALSO I dont know what magic they did but there is no more fog of war glitch and mouse input is excelent.
 
Last edited:

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,662
Location
Tuono-Tabr
Are items less shit now? Plizz.
https://github.com/RedChimera/IWD2EE?tab=readme-ov-file#item-revisions

Item Revisions

Normally, Icewind Dale 2's items are balanced terribly. There are just a few good items towering over hundreds of almost useless magic items (e.g. items that just provide +1 Hide skill or 1/- Spell Resistance). It's not even a low-magic game: one gets tons of magic items, but most of them are terrible.

Item Revisions enhances most of the magical items in Icewind Dale 2, giving them a much larger variety of useful abilities. The purpose is primarily to empower weak items rather than to weaken strong items. Overall, the total number of magical items you obtain as loot in the game won't change much, but those items are more likely to be useful.

Item Revisions also adds many new items to the random loot tables, including powerful armor, shields, rings, amulets, and ammunition.
 

Snufkin

Augur
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
556
Are items less shit now? Plizz.
https://github.com/RedChimera/IWD2EE?tab=readme-ov-file#item-revisions

Item Revisions

Normally, Icewind Dale 2's items are balanced terribly. There are just a few good items towering over hundreds of almost useless magic items (e.g. items that just provide +1 Hide skill or 1/- Spell Resistance). It's not even a low-magic game: one gets tons of magic items, but most of them are terrible.

Item Revisions enhances most of the magical items in Icewind Dale 2, giving them a much larger variety of useful abilities. The purpose is primarily to empower weak items rather than to weaken strong items. Overall, the total number of magical items you obtain as loot in the game won't change much, but those items are more likely to be useful.

Item Revisions also adds many new items to the random loot tables, including powerful armor, shields, rings, amulets, and ammunition.
Ye it seems they thought of everything.

I have sketch of my party, I might soon start it.

Shield Dwarf Barbarian
Half-Orc Fighter
Drow Rogue
Human Druid
Half-Orc Cleric of Helm
Human Sorcerer or Rock gnome Wizard
 

Jvegi

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Messages
5,445
Are items less shit now? Plizz.
https://github.com/RedChimera/IWD2EE?tab=readme-ov-file#item-revisions

Item Revisions

Normally, Icewind Dale 2's items are balanced terribly. There are just a few good items towering over hundreds of almost useless magic items (e.g. items that just provide +1 Hide skill or 1/- Spell Resistance). It's not even a low-magic game: one gets tons of magic items, but most of them are terrible.

Item Revisions enhances most of the magical items in Icewind Dale 2, giving them a much larger variety of useful abilities. The purpose is primarily to empower weak items rather than to weaken strong items. Overall, the total number of magical items you obtain as loot in the game won't change much, but those items are more likely to be useful.

Item Revisions also adds many new items to the random loot tables, including powerful armor, shields, rings, amulets, and ammunition.
I have read all the readmies and have my party ready to go since march. Wanted to know how it works in practice. The whole mod is so expansive, I see no way it's not in need of patching and careful component selection.

Of course the best way to find out, really, is to shut the fuck up and play the game already. Jesus...
 

Jigby

Augur
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
395
To me it felt too BG2-ified. Items too powerful, focus on single classes instead of multi-class, Time Stop + Spell Sequencer + Improved Alacrity nonsense. Like if somebody tried to port Throne of Bhaal into the IWD2 campaign.
 

Snufkin

Augur
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
556
Im playing IWD 2 EE and during installation I chose options that increase difficulty. It surely packs a punch even on normal difficulty. I regret not taking 2x Sorcerer. :(
 

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,662
Location
Tuono-Tabr
It surely packs a punch even on normal difficulty
It's pretty nuts. I have one last battle before me and I'm too anxious to get my ass kicked. Especially bosses are buffed significantly. Just look at that:

hGgVhZq.png
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 18, 2022
Messages
2,500
Location
Vareš
Decided to finally play Icewind Dale and I wish I didn't because it consumed my life for the past few days. Created my party Thursday night and played 60 hours until just now, finishing it. Fuck me.

Played on Core Rules, didn't even optimize my party that well cause girl wanted to LARP and make backstories for characters so fuck it, didn't even have a thief. Don't mind RTwP but this was amazing, some very memorable fights. Dragon's Eye was fucking brutal, I love the placement of those fights so early in the game. Forces you to really know your shit to get through relatively unscathed and once I strategized and beat both Ziggurat and Yxunomei fights I was flying high. Was not a fan of Belhifet fight, however, at least not when I fought him. If I go back after completing expansion with much higher level I'm sure it would be fine. The amount of traps & mobs in some area was a little too much but not enough to start not enjoying myself.

As for Heart of Winter, well, not much to say, was pretty easy and I flew through it doing every quest. The Luremaster dungeons though.....

I almost quit during this. I had just started Heart of Winter and began exploring the town when I randomly get teleported with a party I'm assuming was vastly under leveled for those dungeons. Honestly, I got through most of it fine, I really set up my party well considering the not-so-perfect composition, but 2 areas...Back when I said sometimes I felt like mobs got a bit too much? The manor and area after escaping the dungeon was a fry cry from what made the rest of the game so enjoyable. Those were not challenging areas, it was pure "make this as bullshit as possible" power gaming cringe (This was not the case for Dragon's Eye, as challenging as it was). Maybe if I went back with my higher level party it would feel better but I have no intention of replaying that whole sequence ever again in my life. Rest of the game though? A replay is in order, once I adjust back to reality because this fucking game consumed my life.

Honestly might be a top 5 most enjoyable experience in an RPG for me, definitely top 10.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,250
Checked out IWD2 EE mod a bit to see all the changes. It's like 50% good, 50% bad, 30% overpowered stuff and 30% cringe.

All melee classes get tons more bonuses to AB and Damage through various means. I don't know why, I think it's widely accepted that ACs are too low and/or ABs too high in vanilla for conventional builds. This seems even more exaggerated here. You seem to get something like 1.2 BAB per level rather than 1, I don't understand that and its not mentioned in the readme that I can find. Fighters just get more atk/damage/crit rate, barbs get more and more str/con, rogues get sneak (which can thankfully be un-nerfed to work on every attack like it should in D&D rather than once every few rounds) and luck (which is effectively AB/damage/crit rate). Rangers get... jack shit? And there's no support I can see for ranged characters, all you get is a manyshot feat which NERFs your attack significantly to shoot slightly faster. Well, there's a halfling race that gets 1.5x str bonus to thrown weapons so... yay? I guess you can make a halfling throwing barb. There's also a "kensai" feat fighters can take at level 1 which gives the kensai bonuses from BG2 while you don't wear armor (so +2 AC and +1 atk/dmg per 3 levels, ontop of the normal bonuses you get per level as a fighter). This is stupidly OP because unarmored play with 1 level of monk was already the best, so it's literally free power. They buffed armor a little with some small damage reduction but I'm pretty sure its still a joke.

Casting-wise the new spells stick out like a sore thumb. They are clearly pushing the engine a bit with weird 3rd ed effects that shouldn't be in an infinity engine game. For example, you can fly as a level 3 spell to get +20 AC against melee attacks. I guess this is how you're supposed to play ranged? It makes your character hover way above the battlefield and looks weird. Then there's an enlarge person spell which doubles your sprite size but the areas aren't designed for this and you'll get stuck constantly. There's a bunch of weird overly specific anti-mage and counter-spell type abilities which don't seem like they'd have a place in IWD2 given the lack of real mage battles. There's true strike at level 1 which adds +20 AB for one round (should only be 1 attack per pnp, this is busted), and another spell at level 4 or something which lets you grant another ally +25 AB for one round. There's a spell that lets the paladin apparently time-stop everything but one enemy and duel them for 10 rounds. There's of course timestop and wish. You can trap the souls of higher level creatures souls in gems and consume them for permanent attribute bonuses (max 2) as an evil cleric. Paladin gets a spell to AoE smite. Cleric gets a spell to let them copy one of their spells and give it to another person to cast (so you'd use it for a specific self-target spell you want on someone else). Some of these look like they are implemented well and balanced, along with being very thematic. Others are... you're gonna have to hold off on abusing these.

There is an alchemy system that lets you trade gold for potions at any time with better potions the better your alchemy is. I actually really like the look of it, there's a lot of interesting and unique effects. Possibly a little OP, but you're paying constantly to use them and IWD2 isn't that gold rich of a game IIRC.

They also implemented some metamagic options from 3rd ed. It's kind of a homebrewed system but looks alright. For example changing a single target spell into a mass target spell is +5 levels, and making a spell last all day is +6 levels. There are feats to gain some higher level spell slots above the normal cap for your class (so level 10/11/12 spell slots for level 9 casters), which looks interesting to use with metamagic. But this seems like HoW-difficulty stuff only for a replay.

The game overall does run way better. Scrolling seems smoother and save/loading is much quicker. Dialog is no longer kinda laggy, you can speed through it much better since we've all heard Hedron's speech a million times. There's an option to turn off the weird fog of war effect that seems to flicker constantly on modern machines.

Will reserve judgment until I've actually played a bit. It's possible this is all actually really well balanced in combination with the supposedly revamped combat and encounter design. Doubt it, but I'll give it a chance.
 

Jigby

Augur
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
395
There's an option to turn off the weird fog of war effect that seems to flicker constantly on modern machines.
Better than this is to keep the old fog of war on and use the ddt-jinc.glsl shader (it's in shader-package.zip). Gets rid of the flickering on LCD monitors while preserving the original artistic intent (the polygonal shapes on EE fog of war look weird, also tried Beamdog's iwdee for the first time and it too has this kind of ugly fow, ugh).
 

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,662
Location
Tuono-Tabr
Checked out IWD2 EE mod a bit to see all the changes. It's like 50% good, 50% bad, 30% overpowered stuff and 30% cringe.

All melee classes get tons more bonuses to AB and Damage through various means. I don't know why, I think it's widely accepted that ACs are too low and/or ABs too high in vanilla for conventional builds. This seems even more exaggerated here. You seem to get something like 1.2 BAB per level rather than 1, I don't understand that and its not mentioned in the readme that I can find. Fighters just get more atk/damage/crit rate, barbs get more and more str/con, rogues get sneak (which can thankfully be un-nerfed to work on every attack like it should in D&D rather than once every few rounds) and luck (which is effectively AB/damage/crit rate). Rangers get... jack shit? And there's no support I can see for ranged characters, all you get is a manyshot feat which NERFs your attack significantly to shoot slightly faster. Well, there's a halfling race that gets 1.5x str bonus to thrown weapons so... yay? I guess you can make a halfling throwing barb. There's also a "kensai" feat fighters can take at level 1 which gives the kensai bonuses from BG2 while you don't wear armor (so +2 AC and +1 atk/dmg per 3 levels, ontop of the normal bonuses you get per level as a fighter). This is stupidly OP because unarmored play with 1 level of monk was already the best, so it's literally free power. They buffed armor a little with some small damage reduction but I'm pretty sure its still a joke.

Casting-wise the new spells stick out like a sore thumb. They are clearly pushing the engine a bit with weird 3rd ed effects that shouldn't be in an infinity engine game. For example, you can fly as a level 3 spell to get +20 AC against melee attacks. I guess this is how you're supposed to play ranged? It makes your character hover way above the battlefield and looks weird. Then there's an enlarge person spell which doubles your sprite size but the areas aren't designed for this and you'll get stuck constantly. There's a bunch of weird overly specific anti-mage and counter-spell type abilities which don't seem like they'd have a place in IWD2 given the lack of real mage battles. There's true strike at level 1 which adds +20 AB for one round (should only be 1 attack per pnp, this is busted), and another spell at level 4 or something which lets you grant another ally +25 AB for one round. There's a spell that lets the paladin apparently time-stop everything but one enemy and duel them for 10 rounds. There's of course timestop and wish. You can trap the souls of higher level creatures souls in gems and consume them for permanent attribute bonuses (max 2) as an evil cleric. Paladin gets a spell to AoE smite. Cleric gets a spell to let them copy one of their spells and give it to another person to cast (so you'd use it for a specific self-target spell you want on someone else). Some of these look like they are implemented well and balanced, along with being very thematic. Others are... you're gonna have to hold off on abusing these.

There is an alchemy system that lets you trade gold for potions at any time with better potions the better your alchemy is. I actually really like the look of it, there's a lot of interesting and unique effects. Possibly a little OP, but you're paying constantly to use them and IWD2 isn't that gold rich of a game IIRC.

They also implemented some metamagic options from 3rd ed. It's kind of a homebrewed system but looks alright. For example changing a single target spell into a mass target spell is +5 levels, and making a spell last all day is +6 levels. There are feats to gain some higher level spell slots above the normal cap for your class (so level 10/11/12 spell slots for level 9 casters), which looks interesting to use with metamagic. But this seems like HoW-difficulty stuff only for a replay.

The game overall does run way better. Scrolling seems smoother and save/loading is much quicker. Dialog is no longer kinda laggy, you can speed through it much better since we've all heard Hedron's speech a million times. There's an option to turn off the weird fog of war effect that seems to flicker constantly on modern machines.

Will reserve judgment until I've actually played a bit. It's possible this is all actually really well balanced in combination with the supposedly revamped combat and encounter design. Doubt it, but I'll give it a chance.
I'll add some of my random thoughts. Personally I do like most of the new spell additions (eg. Duel is an iconic spell for a paladin).
I haven't played the original but I found the overall game difficulty to be really high. Especially named enemies are buffed like hell (I wasn't able to kill Xvim, my melee just couldn't scratch him with their +5 weapons). I compare boss stats with their original values and they are substantially higher in EE, for example: Xvim's HP 482 vs 1020 , AC 35 vs 51). They are also immune to pretty much everything - when I searched for ways people dealt with Izbelah or Xvim, I read stuff like "I just finger of death him" which plainly won't work here. From what I saw they also have very high SR.
 

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