Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Tigranes]

Play the original.

 

[laclongquan]

I am playing IWD2 and stealth is definitely not broken for my Deep Gnome Rogue Fighter.

You can play another way by casting invisibility on your (search on) char and have them walk around to find traps?

 

[Chippy]

I am playing IWD2 and stealth is definitely not broken for my Deep Gnome Rogue Fighter.

You can play another way by casting invisibility on your (search on) char and have them walk around to find traps?

That's really interesting. Not to be a prick - but you're sure you can remain for over 1 round in stealth with human and non-human enemies on screen?. I was probably gonna buy it on GOG because I thought it must be a UK only bug, as I can't see any other possible reason for it.

 

[laclongquan]

Only certain enemies can break my stealth. Say 1/5. Meaning if I go fast through their perimeter (within 10 tiles) my stealth status should not break.

That remind me of a possibility: your Hide/Silent Move is too low? My Deep Gnome has innate Non Detection spell-like status, so it's harder to detect.

Also for non HOF game, the character usually get to level 16 at most, so a lvl 20 is overkill. Howabout you test again with a level15 Rogue? You are playing a non HoF game, right?

 

[Chippy]

Yeah I literally started the game, patched it, cheated xp in on a Ranger and Rogue to level 30 and stealthed them both to the first goblin in the start area. They always fail 100% of the time after 1 round. So I bonked the humans at the pier with one character and drew them back to a stalthed character (assuming it was infravision) with the same result. Then switched the characters - because 1 had max stealth & MS with 26 DEX the other 20 stealth & MS.
This is normal difficulty. I've asked this question many times over the years on the original forums, Gamebanshee, Gibberling3, and Beamdog and I think everyone thinks I'm looking for attention (like it's a weird fetish). But I really can't get stealth to last for more than 1 round - so long as the enemy is sharing the screen from any distance. My last resort is to buy the GOG version, but I seriously doubt there was a deffenrece between US>UK versions of the game.

I dimly remember (very dimly) a thread where Josh Sawyer might have mentioned that he tweaked stealth because it was an 'I win' button. But I might just be projecting an inherent hate of the guy after POE. So if you can confirm stealth is working yourself...I'll have to assume it's some kind of hex just for me.

 

[Lyric Suite]

So I installed the latest version of IWDEE. Holy fuck my eyes. Why? It was okay as it was.

Are you talking about the interface?

Last time i checked it i didn't see anything wrong with the graphics, but i didn't get very far.

 

[Melcar]

So I installed the latest version of IWDEE. Holy fuck my eyes. Why? It was okay as it was.

Are you talking about the interface?

Last time i checked it i didn't see anything wrong with the graphics, but i didn't get very far.

This is with the latest 2.5 version of the game. The main game interface is alright. Shit compared to the original, but alright. The menu interface was changed compared to previous builds of the EE, but it looks cool (if a bit cluttered). My main complain now is with the sprites. They now look like blurry shit even if you zoom out. The version previous to this last release did not have that filter and looked fine, almost like the original game.

 

[laclongquan]

Yeah I literally started the game, patched it, cheated xp in on a Ranger and Rogue to level 30 and stealthed them both to the first goblin in the start area. .

That might be the problem. I suspect you might have broken the hide/detect cap somehow.

IWD2 codings are weird, unlike other games. Do you know that a rogue with 60-70 pickpocket can still fail around 15% or more? I cheat in 20 master thievery potions, have the rogue drink it all to raise the skill so I can steal easier, and it's a disappointing result.

If you play normal game, I suggest a lvl 14-15 is more than enough to rolfstomp it. Dont even try it with 16. God know what kind of weird conditions left behind in the game.

 

[Chippy]

Damn - I just spent 15min capturing screenshots but I can't upload them.

What I've found/am assuming is that:
Stealth only works if you are outside the original 800x600 resolution of the game, and if you are out of the line of sight of an enemy. I'm assuming it's related to resolution because you can hide on screen (with an enemy on it) outside of the 800 x 600 'square area'. So:
Within their line of sight, but about 3/4 across the screen running at 1024 x 768 resolution = sucess.
x2 game feet away from the enemy but behind a wall = success.
Within the original 800 x 600 resolution and in their line of sight = fail.

I tested this with a human Ranger with 20 ranks in stealth & hide, and with a drow Rogue with 40 ranks in both. I've got screenshots of it with x4 attempts made with each character but the Codex site doesn't want me uploading my porn screenshots. I'd be happy to upload the images if someone confirmed it can be done.

So I'm assuming this was a deliberate decision inspired by Sawyerism and my vague memory was correct. It's coming back to me a bit now - I think he said he wanted stealth to have more urgency. Which means I was right and wrong at the same time. And also means that Sawyer was a prick even before I knew Sawyer was a prick.

I could be wrong. I don't do videos, but if anyone were to test this and post it on Youtube I guarantee what I'd said above is correct. But it wasn't a big issue for people when the game was released, so...it only effects people obsessed with stealth characters like me.

Edit: It may also be that you can hide while an enemy is on screen, but outside of their range of vision - instead of my original 800 x 600 resolution idea, but its all the same.
I also tested everything on a human enemy.

 

[Arctrax]

So I installed the latest version of IWDEE. Holy fuck my eyes. Why? It was okay as it was.

Why ? bad UI ? shitty graphics in general ?

I have it in the backlog for this summer but I dont know if I should just stay with the non-enhanced version.... opinions?

 

[Melcar]

So I installed the latest version of IWDEE. Holy fuck my eyes. Why? It was okay as it was.

Why ? bad UI ? shitty graphics in general ?

I have it in the backlog for this summer but I dont know if I should just stay with the non-enhanced version.... opinions?

The sprites. As of this latest revision (2.5), they have this awful filter that smudges the sprite graphics. Granted I have not played any of the other EEs, but I guess they look like those now. The previous builds (had 2.0.1 installed before) did not look like this.
The UI is "fine". It also changed for this latest revision, but it remains usable.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Can you post a screenshot? I just checked, and my version doesn't seem to have anything wrong with it.

 

[Melcar]

At work right now, but difference is pretty noticeable. I did recently reformat and installed my whole OS again with new video drivers, so don't know. Did you ever get to try previous versions (pre 2.0.1)?

 

[Lyric Suite]

No, i bought the EE in the recent Steam sale, so it came already as 2.5.

 

[the_shadow]

I am playing IWD2 and stealth is definitely not broken for my Deep Gnome Rogue Fighter.

You can play another way by casting invisibility on your (search on) char and have them walk around to find traps?

I've noticed some enemies can see through stealth/invisibility, especially bosses and hard monsters like iron golems.

 

[laclongquan]

More like scripts kicked in~ IWD2 love to have script spawning enemies on our ass (the drums, the traps that summon enemies, the dialog that summon enemies...)

An example of it is the ford (after the palisade battle). The orc leader there is supposed to talk with us but it's actually the script. If you move in a space that activate the script but you havent seen the tile where the orc leader stand (because the barrel hide that space, for example...) then you will have a conversation with no one on screen.

 

[mister_matt]

Rolled a horrendous party last night. No fighters initially.

I'm not really sure the best way to run a bard and a swashbuckler thief. I've already got the bard casting sleep, which is nice. The "front lines" would be a Ranger, Cleric, and Druid - with a mage in the background throwing spells at everything.

Should I dual class the thief into something? What would be interesting? I don't really want to min max, but I know the thief only benefits a certain amount from the thief points.

I've never played a melee ranger before either, I was considering dual classing that one as well, but I don't know if I want to. Any interesting ideas? I don't really want to min/max the play through. I'd rather enjoy it.

 

[laclongquan]

Have your Cleric and druid summon your frontline meatshield. With that, six guys using ranged attacks will deal sufficiently to most threats.
Your cleric can bless the party
Your druid can do entangle field which slow hostiles waaaaay down.
Bard casting sleep is nice.
The thief can dual to fighter 4 to get grandmastery of bow. Sniper build!
Please note: have your cleric and druid pure to get highest spell soonest.
EDIT: ah yeah, he didnt say which game. I assume IWD2. Although I'd say it's applicable to 1 though.

 

[Lyric Suite]

What game are you guys talking about, IWD 1 or 2?

If it's 1, fuck thiefs. Level a thief to 5 and get open locks and find traps up to circa 80 each, then dual to mage and boost both to 100 with items or bard song. Done. If you are playing EE, half the kits are overpowered as shit and it doesn't take much to figure out which ones. You can easy trivialize every challenge the game throws at you without even bothering to min/max, just look at what you got and you can easily figure out how to beat the odds of the game at every level.

 

[mister_matt]

What game are you guys talking about, IWD 1 or 2?

IWD1 EE. What are the differences between 1 and 2 that make thief worth more in 2?

 

[Robespierre]

What game are you guys talking about, IWD 1 or 2?

IWD1 EE. What are the differences between 1 and 2 that make thief worth more in 2?

You don't need a rogue to succeed In IWD 2, but it is useful to give one or two levels of rogue on one character. If you give it at first level you'll get more skill points that may prove useful. Otherwise, you don't need a rogue to open doors (sheer strength or knock spell do the trick), pick-pocket is useless and you can scout ahead with an invisibility spell. That's basically it.

 

[Lyric Suite]

What game are you guys talking about, IWD 1 or 2?

IWD1 EE. What are the differences between 1 and 2 that make thief worth more in 2?

Thiefs have more combat utility in IWD2. Also, i don't think there are any permanent traps in IWD2, though i may be remembering wrong. In IWD1, most traps can be triggered with a decoy, whether one of your tanks or summons, but some traps will trigger over and over and can only be removed with the thief skills, and some of their effects are pretty nasty.

The secret to IWD1 combat is simply not to get hit. HP is sort of useless, especially if you are playing on insane. This means that your best tanks are going to be summons and your magic users (this is one of the reasons i hate HoF mode. Summons get buffed too, so the game becomes this tedious grind of trying to take enemies down while summons are still up, rinse and repeat until the end). Dwarven Defenders can actually achieve immunity to physical damage which is broken as shit, but he is still vulnerable to magic. So you still need summons and all the protection magic can provide. For this reason it is a good thing to have your droods and clerics also be tanks, as as well as a figther/mage if you can squeeze one in your group (make an elf one too. The best shield in the game can only be used by elves or half-elves). Dualing from fighter helps, also because the EE follows the BG2 rule of being able to get grandmastery with even just two levels in fighter, which is total bullshit and game braking. The best combo for this is fighter 7 (where you get an extra half attack per round) and rest druid. Druids have a very fast progression at early levels which allows you to dual at such an high level as figther without spending half the game waiting to regain your fighter skills. Dualing from fighter will also allows you to use heavy armors and shields, and some of the later forms you get are very powerful. Especially the Water Elemental form, which starts with 75 in every physical resistance. You can easily get to 100 and with stuff like Iron Skins you have an exceedingly strong decoy. The AI is pretty straight forward and most enemies will blow their load on your decoys, summons or tanks, making the rest of the fight easier. Clerics also favor from dualing from warriors (again also because of the broken BG2 grandmaster system) but i wouldn't recommend pushing for level 7. The advantage of adding fighter levels to clerics is that you are allowed to go over plain 18 strength (you can start with Half-Orc to get around this if you want a plain cleric. More broken shit) and also get any constitution bonus above 16, which is useful when you are using Draw Upon Holy Might. For all this, dualing at level 3 is sufficient.

You now need DPS. For melee, dual wielding is king. Don't bother with two-handed weapons, Bioware saw to that. Make a Paladin, dual wield Pale Justice with that Long Sword of action, cast Draw Upon Holy Might, rip everything to shred. Best kit is Undead Hunter. Half the enemies in the game are undead. Cavalier is more useful against some of the stronger enemies, but the fact he can't use ranged weapons is too much of a penalty. You want your melees to double as ranger attackers.

Speaking of which. Archers are broken as fuck for this, but for IWD1 are actually overkill, because of all the bows that add so many attacks per round. The cap is 5, and you can get to that just with the skills the Archer has. For this reason, go for a Stalker instead. Backstabbing with fighter Thac0, lmao, retreat, switch to ranged.

What other broken shit is there, let me see. Ho yes, Sorcerer. IWD1 makes scrolls very rare and the game is balanced for that. Sorcerer bypasses this so you can have all the powerful spells you need well before the game would have normally allowed you to have them, ayy.

Bards are broken too. Warchant of the Sith is basically free healing and was broken even in the original. They fixed it in IWD2, after realizing their mistake. Skald is also quite powerful, not the least because his song also buffs summons (as do some spells, like the cleric Strength of One). Bards are best used for their singing (activate their script or you'll be driven insane since they stop singing as soon as you command them to attack), but the level 6 spell Mislead allows them to finally enter combat, since the decoy the spell makes can actually sing in place of the bard. It used to be that you could even stack the songs on top of another, but by some miracle this was actually fixed, i don't know why since all the other broken shit was left in. Lastly, Bards cast spells at their character level. This means that in any spell that benefits from caster level, they are utterly superior to mages, since bards level so much faster.

 

[laclongquan]

What game are you guys talking about, IWD 1 or 2?

IWD1 EE. What are the differences between 1 and 2 that make thief worth more in 2?

You don't need a rogue ANY CLASS to succeed In IWD 2, but it is useful to give one or two levels of rogue on one character. If you give it at first level you'll get more skill points that may prove useful. Otherwise, you don't need a rogue to open doors (sheer strength or knock spell do the trick), pick-pocket is useless and you can scout ahead with an invisibility spell. That's basically it.

Fix for your false assumption. Rogue is not essential in IWD2 in the same way that no class is essential in IWD2. PLaying the right way with Rogue make your game much easier.

The correct way to play Rogue is to have the entire party camp at a defensible place, then have the rogue roaming all over the place to find and trigger enemies' spawn. Some of them are scripted to spawn on your ass, so the party will make short work of those one and two ambushers instead of having to deal with them in a big battle. After that, rogue can just shoot at one hostile and draw them toward the party for a set piece big battle. This allow for FULL CONTROL of the battlefield.

A stealth rogue can disarm the traps with enemies still present, so no lumber into traps for them, either.

The correct way to build Rogue is Fighter4 to get grandmastery of bow. That is a sniper build that allow rogue become the anti-caster killing machine. Dont bother with backstabing, because if you try to do backstabing deep inside enemy's line you are liable to get a few spells thrown at your ass and deader than disco.

 

[Melcar]

You don't have to use the kits you know. They are cool and all after your nth play of the game. I mean, it was fun soloing and Archer that did 50+ of damage with each hit. No challenge, but entertaining.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Soloing is broken whether you use kits or not, to be honest. Yes, you can avoid using kits, but it's annoying, because you are missing out parts of the game that could have been cool if only they were balanced. But they are not. And the fun of a combat game is making strategies and planning builds. But when you know you can trivialize the challenge by using certain abilities or combos, it removes part of the entertainment. In fact, the best way to play the game is to purposely make gimped builds, which is fucked up if you ask me.