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Turn-Based Tactics The Lamplighters League - turn-based tactics in pulp 1930s setting from Harebrained Schemes

Lemming42

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The rate at which they go up in this game is insane, especially since when they hit one of the checkpoints there doesn't seem to be a way to set them back. I've got like three open recruitment missions and two main story missions but I can't do any of them because I'm having to dedicate so much time to delaying stupid threat meters (while the other two go up anyway).

I'm getting the sense the consequences for failure are extreme too; a tooltip earlier said it's game over if any of the meters reach full. I'm really enjoying this game overall, but fucking hell this shit winds me up. Marvel Midnight Suns was refreshing for just letting you actually play the game at your own pace and choose which missions you liked rather than constantly threatening you with a game over while actively punishing you for doing things your own way.

I think the only time I didn't hate this shit was Chimera Squad, and that's mostly because the penalties for failure weren't too harsh and it felt like it was simulating the experience of being a beleaguered counter-terrorism squad tasked with keeping the peace in a lawless city. I'm not sure what the world map gameplay is meant to represent here; I guess it's meant to make you feel like an underground secret society who are having to carefully choose when to strike and what to sabotage, but it feels more like a massive fucking pain in the dick.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Because no matter how good your game is, it's always going to be hard to stand out making yet another quirky-themed tactics game™. Why?
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/pa...winner-takes-all-in-the-tactical-gaming-space

Paradox think there's no point competing with XCOM after their Lamplighters flop - it's "winner takes all" in the "tactical gaming space"​

"There are certain genres that are like that," says deputy CEO

Last October, Paradox Interactive announced that they and development studio Harebrained Schemes were breaking up, following underwhelming sales of Harebrained's 1930s-set XCOMlike, The Lamplighters League. The publishers had already made layoffs at Harebrained in the run-up to release, implying that preorder numbers were low; ultimately, Paradox wrote it off as a $22 million flop. At the time of the "parting of ways", Paradox chief operational officer Charlotta Nilsson washed her hands of XCOMlikes entirely, commenting that "a new project or sequel in the same genre was not in line with our portfolio plans".

We ourselves were mixed on The Lamplighters League. "A strong turn-based foundation and colourful setting held back by grind, blind chance, and a need for efficiency over tactical variety," was Sin's verdict. But other outlets were more enthused, and the Steam user review consensus remains positive, even now that Paradox have yanked support. When I spoke to deputy chief executive officer Mattias Lilja at Paradox's Media Day earlier this month, I had to ask about the game's fortunes, and Paradox's decision to steer away from XCOMlikes in future.

"I can start with how we see the reality of that game, or the reality of that genre," Lilja told me. "When we started [that project], we read it as a fairly lively genre, where there were many games, tactical games that could coexist. We often think in terms of, who's the number one in the genre, what does it mean to be number two or number three, and if you're number three, is that still a viable option for the long term? If it is, maybe you want to go there - you're not going to be number one, but maybe number three or four or five, whatever.

"When we released The Lamplighters League, it quickly became very obvious to us that this was not the game that people wanted, and we were not going to be able to save it," he went on. "It was reviewed OK - I liked it too. But it was not an audience of any size that would mean this would be sustainable for a long time."

(For context, Paradox are in the habit of publishing games you can play for years, even decades, with lashings of DLC and free updates. This business model, which pre-dates Steam's early access format, has led to some consternation among players regarding how many resources the developers set aside for paid DLC, versus the main game.)

"We're starting to see that there might be maybe a second place, but there's no third - there might not even be a second place in the tactical gaming space," Lilja continued. "So maybe there is only one game. There are certain genres that are like that. They have one game and everybody else is sort of not catching up or finding a viable existence, as the second choice in this genre."

A character blasts a flaming zombie with a rifle in The Lamplighters League.Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Paradox Interactive
Paradox had strong suspicions that The Lamplighters League would flop, Lilja confirmed, based on preorder numbers. As such, the apparently mutual decision to split with Harebrained came about pretty quickly after release.

"The game was basically commercially dead on arrival," Lilja commented. "And the studio, this is what they do. And it is very specific, what people are good at in [games development] - certain talents, you can move, but the core team of a game is really hard to pivot to something else. They're not going to be very good at it.

"And it's the same with the grand strategy people - they're probably not going to be very good at other genres, either. So it is quite specific, the understanding of [these games] - they're such complex products, and you know them specifically. So we were in a position, where we said we can't use this team effectively, and they were like, we want to do what we're good at. So good, let's go our separate ways.

"And the decision happened really quickly at launch. We can cheat a bit by looking at pre-orders. It's very rare that game has low pre-orders and then takes off at launch. We have not seen it, somebody else might have. The opposite might be more true - good pre-orders, but then weaker sales post-launch, that could happen if you have a very niche product.

"So we we quickly came to an agreement with the devs that we needed to go set our separate ways. We're not going to invest more in this type of game, and they wanted to make more of these."

In hindsight, I'd have liked Lilja to spell out is what precisely he means by "the tactical gaming space", which obviously encompasses a bundle of subgenres and approaches, not least Japanese tactics RPGs such as Final Fantasy Tactics. I did clarify with him that by "number one" in the genre he meant XCOM. It's also worth noting that if Harebrained have a reputation for tactical games, they aren't just in the business of XCOMlikes - their previous project, Battletech, is a different kettle of mechafish entirely.


One thing I did raise is that The Lamplighters League isn't Paradox's first stab at publishing an XCOM-style tactics game with that particular combination of grid- and turn-based combat. The company's past dalliances with the format include Empire Of Sin from Romero Games, which released in 2020. Our reviewer Tom Senior called it "a wonderfully ambitious mashup of systems wrapped around a lovely, if extremely cliched, caricature of the golden age of gangster fiction", with some significant flaws born of said mashing-up, and far too many bugs.

Paradox deemed themselves "not satisfied" with Empire Of Sin at launch, though the disappointment was masked by 2020 being "the best year in Paradox's history". So why did they keep trying with the XCOMlike in its wake?

"There we messed up the execution, quite a lot," Lilja told me. "The Lamplighters League was a competently made game, decently reviewed, and it did work. The fact that Empire Of Sin didn't work was kind of obvious, unfortunately, and that was also on us. So it didn't say anything about the market, really. It just said that if you don't make a good game, you're not going to fly in any genre. We might have may read that wrong but yeah, we didn't release a good game, and that is always punished."

Speaking as a fan of yer XCOMs, to say nothing of yer Gears Tacticses and yer Mutant: Year Zeroes, I find the idea that there is precious little appetite for games comparable to XCOM distressing. Is this really more than a gut response from Paradox, and if so, how do they explain the situation? Is the audience for such games just too small, or are people overly wedded to XCOM, a series which hasn't received a fresh instalment since 2016?

"Execution is everything," Lilja reiterated. "That's the logic that I'm trying to refer to. So maybe there's XCOM and nothing else. Or somebody else makes a [successful XCOM-style game] and I look like an idiot, but right now, that's our thinking."

A gun fight in a car park in Empire Of Sin
Paradox's chief creative officer Henrik Fåhraeus offered similar arguments later that day, when I asked for his thoughts on Lilja's assessment of "the tactical gaming space".

"I don't have data on this, but it's my distinct feeling that for this target demographic, it's winner takes all," he said. "We need to - well, we don't need to, but we should look at why that is. Because it seems to me that the survival crafting genre, for example, is infinitely big. But turn-based tactical? It seems to be more 'number one or nothing'.

"Then again, I like other turn-based tactical games, like Phoenix Point," he added. "But there seems to be something to that. It would be interesting to delve into that. For what it is, I think Lamplighters League is a good game."

The ray of hope here is that Harebrained Schemes are still alive and kicking. Their first post-Paradox project, Graft, looks splendiferous. It takes place in a "dying space station" and has you willingly or inadvertently modifying your own personality by plugging in cybernetic implants laced with the memories of their previous owners. It's also, as some readers noticed, a real-time game. Fingers crossed that this isn't an early indication of a great dearth of XCOMlikes to come.
 
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>release two mega-cucked pieces of shit with lame gameplay
>make wide ranging conclusions on the viability of "the tactical gaming space" on the basis of their failure


Geez, and these people get to make decisions about money? How about you retards release a non-pozzed TB tactics game with good gameplay and systems? No? OK. Meanwhile things like Momentum cant even find a publisher....
 

Oropay

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Paradox wrote it off as a $22 million flop. At the time of the "parting of ways", Paradox chief operational officer Charlotta Nilsson washed her hands of XCOMlikes entirely, commenting that "a new project or sequel in the same genre was not in line with our portfolio plans".
"We often think in terms of, who's the number one in the genre, what does it mean to be number two or number three, and if you're number three, is that still a viable option for the long term?"
"We're not going to invest more in this type of game, and they wanted to make more of these."
In hindsight, I'd have liked Lilja to spell out is what precisely he means by "the tactical gaming space", which obviously encompasses a bundle of subgenres and approaches
First of all, there's absolutely no reason that HBS needed $22M+ to realize TLL. HBS obviously took Paradox for a ride. Secondly, there's a big difference between a publisher bankrolling games with the goal of massive commercial success (aka being 'number one' and long term high margin monetization) and a developer making games because that studio has a vision and wants to see that vision realized. Obviously the former requires some creative vision, and the latter requires some commercial success, but they're massively different undertakings with massively different goals. There are plenty of commercially viable games on the scale of TLL, even if they don't make beaucoups of money.
 

Lemming42

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I'm glad HBS apparently want to make more of this type of game as an independent studio. The game is actually good but you can see why it didn't sell well - it wasn't well-marketed (a mistake Paradox seem to make repeatedly), it makes a really poor first impression in the demo (which, I assume, is about as far as a lot of review outlets get before publishing their "final verdict"), and the game itself has enough flaws that it ends up being around a 7.5/10 when rated fairly, which in today's landscape might as well be 0/10.

Also yeah, I can't imagine where the $22m cost came from, that's absurd. The voice acting is superb and extremely professional but no way does it account for that budget. They 100% rinsed Paradox, as everyone seems to.

I want to say Paradox are wrong about tbt games but at the same time I'm not sure how many of them have sold well other than XCOM itself. I know that Midnight Suns and TLL were both flops despite being fairly high quality, especially the former. There was one called Miasma Chronicles that I think sort of fell by the wayside, and one based on The Dark Crystal that nobody played. How did Chimera Squad, Gays Tactics, and Mutant Year Zero sell?
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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"We're starting to see that there might be maybe a second place, but there's no third - there might not even be a second place in the tactical gaming space," Lilja continued. "So maybe there is only one game. There are certain genres that are like that. They have one game and everybody else is sort of not catching up or finding a viable existence, as the second choice in this genre."

Meanwhile, Jagged Alliance 3 released in July 2023 to considerable acclaim and became RPG Codex's GotY 2023.


GiMYwC6.png
 

mediocrepoet

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"We're starting to see that there might be maybe a second place, but there's no third - there might not even be a second place in the tactical gaming space," Lilja continued. "So maybe there is only one game. There are certain genres that are like that. They have one game and everybody else is sort of not catching up or finding a viable existence, as the second choice in this genre."

Meanwhile, Jagged Alliance 3 released in July 2023 to considerable acclaim and became RPG Codex's GotY 2023.


GiMYwC6.png

That's just XCom with illegal aliens instead of extraterrestrial aliens.
 

Zboj Lamignat

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So the most prestigious developer/publisher paradox won't bankroll and release prestigious nuxcom-likes anymore?

Oh no.
 

ArchAngel

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"We're starting to see that there might be maybe a second place, but there's no third - there might not even be a second place in the tactical gaming space," Lilja continued. "So maybe there is only one game. There are certain genres that are like that. They have one game and everybody else is sort of not catching up or finding a viable existence, as the second choice in this genre."

Meanwhile, Jagged Alliance 3 released in July 2023 to considerable acclaim and became RPG Codex's GotY 2023.


GiMYwC6.png
There lies the problem. As the Codex reward says, it is a RPG, not Xcom like :P
 

Lagi

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I am totally not trigger by your passive aggression, just want to say that

you are all fucking retards, just because its 50% on gog, you all suddenly started playing it?

or rather its a good game, and you all cannot accept that is fun even with traps inside. Which makes you all also faggots.
 

ArchAngel

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I am totally not trigger by your passive aggression, just want to say that

you are all fucking retards, just because its 50% on gog, you all suddenly started playing it?

or rather its a good game, and you all cannot accept that is fun even with traps inside. Which makes you all also faggots.
I played it on game pass fairly soon after release (waited for few patches so they fix worst problems), did about 15 missions before I got bored.

At least it laster longer than that shit called Empire of Sin.
 

mediocrepoet

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I am totally not trigger by your passive aggression, just want to say that

you are all fucking retards, just because its 50% on gog, you all suddenly started playing it?

or rather its a good game, and you all cannot accept that is fun even with traps inside. Which makes you all also faggots.
I am totally not baffled by your persistence in dumbfuckery. Just want to say that.

People post about their experiences with it and yet here you are, mystified.*

* This is a polite way of saying "retarded" in this context.
 
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shame paradox turned into this shiny beacon of total cuckery, the actual incarnation of the seymour skinner meme. they once made my favourite games, now i can't wait to see them close business.
 

Lemming42

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Major complaint about this game - takedowns don't even work on a lot of enemies. This is fine in the early game when there's one or two of them, but I'm in the mid-game and half the fucking map is covered with supernatural creatures who are immune to takedown. The fuck am I meant to do? I can't even knock out human enemies because they're set to walk in patrols alongside the un-takedown-able monsters. It seems like the game just wants to force you into turn-based mode, which is fine, but then why even have the shitty stealth mode, the shittiness of which is one of the main things people complain about with this game.
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Finished this the other day, so it was time for a review. You can read it here, or down below, if interested.

lamplight1.jpg

Welcome to Paradox Interactive’s attempt at a Xcom-like turn-based tactical game in the form of The Lamplighters League. While it does not live up the legacy it was aiming for, I did find it enjoyable periodically, albeit a tad grindy. In this alternative 1930s world of earth, every kind of pulp fiction exoticism has been thrown in for good measure. Everything from the spirit world of ghosts and walking skeletons to monsters of the depth out to feast, Cthulhu style. Don’t worry, there are Nazi type regular human soldiers to shoot up too. In other words: there’s a whole damn smörgåsbord of critters and ancient horrors waiting to devour your soul!



The Lamplighters League
There has been a struggle between good and evil for many hundred years, with the Lamplighters League being at the front, protecting mankind against all kinds of horrors. It’s an organization that came to be in the 1500s, and have since then worked to keep a check on things, all done in and from the shadows. Yes, it’s one of those thankless saving-of-the-world kind of jobs. Everything was fine and dandy in the world, but then suddenly in the 1930s, a sinister cult named Banished Court decided world domination was the thing missing in their lives.

lamplight2.jpg

We might be cartoons, but we can still kill and maim

As you might suspect, you will control and maintain the Lamplighters League, with the goal of eventually defeating the Banished Court. However, you are not the boss. You are more of a battle commander and a recruiter, while the enigmatic leader Locke sets up the missions, and figures out what needs to be done. Now, I wouldn’t say that the story is that interesting, or great, but it has a nice sense of “pulp” writing from the 1930s, involving about everything from that action-adventure genre. It’s fun and cool, but at the same time, it gets a bit messy, by having no clear theme to the narrative. Everything goes, as they say. You see, the Banished Court have learned to control the occult, from exploding mummies to evil ghosts that love to electrify their victims. This can seem unfair, considering you will only have command over people of mere mortal flesh. To be fair, though, there is a mention that the league got betrayed at one point in the past, which probably set them back. It’s also likely the reason the Banished Court could grow so big and threaten the world without any interference.

Compared to the modern Xcom-like games, this is more of a Chimera Squad than Xcom 2. Seeing as all the agents you get to order around are already established characters that interject and talk to each between missions. This is a nice way to fill out the background lore of the world, and the people under your command, but it means you are pretty much limited to what is presented. And a defeat is more or less just a minor setback, then an actual death that will have you mourning if it was a classic Xcom title. The agents can die, but it seems you need to really mess up for that to happen. None of my agents permanently died under my watch, so I’m not exactly sure what happens if they do, narrative-wise.

lamplight15.jpg

Hey guys, welcome to the Ring of Fire fanclub

Move & shoot

While the story feels a bit underwhelming, both in its setup, and in its supposed escalation – I mean, you are supposed to be saving the world, yet it feels mundane throughout, without any real tension or increasing stakes. The gameplay fares much better. It uses the two-point move system that Xcom: Enemy Unknown popularized. However, here you can fire twice, move once and fire, or fire and move, or just double move. So, there is more freedom for the player to make the tactics more engaging. This system can also be expanded greatly through items and skills. For example, my machine-gunner Isaac was given an amulet that gives him AP (moves) when healed. What made this so powerful, is that he got a self-heal that he can use fairly often. You can guess where I’m going with this. It turned him into an unstoppable beast with tons of attacks each turn. There are a ton of things that work like this, which makes it fun to find synergies within your group, and the items you create or loot.

Beyond that, the combat is pretty standard if you have played any of the modern Xcom games before. Yet, I would say it reminds me more of Solasta: Crown of the Magister and Divinity: Original Sin, than Xcom 2, even if The Lamplighters League involves firearms for the most part. The reason for this is that finding choke points to AOE (area of effect) quickly became the go-to tactic. Just like the two games mentioned above, it’s not uncommon to cover the complete battle arena with different environmental hazards, like fire, electricity, or poison to trap the enemy. For then to just watch the enemy turning themselves into a burning, agonizing sludge of toxic slime trying to approach your men. I like setting things on fire as much as the next guy, but it gets samey after a while. The cause for this singular combat style is that after a while, the game decides to spam you with enemies. Having 15 mooks gunning for your head is not rare, while you only have 3 or 4 men at most on most missions. This means this kind of gameplay is unavoidable, and mostly necessary to win.

lamplight12.jpg

You can always try to enter!

Time to sneak

The Lamplighters League tries to fix the spam issue by having a weird real-time stealth system. You only have a limited take-down skills per mission, that at least half of the enemies are immune to. It does not feel that engaging, with the mechanics coming off as undercooked. It’s not broken, since it does work, if you can time things right. But I constantly had the feeling that there was supposed to be more to it. Like I was playing the game wrong. It’s sort of implied that the missions are of clandestine nature, meaning you are supposed to go in and out fast, without engaging the whole horde of 25+ enemies. I don’t see how that is possible, though. There are just too many enemies, covering every inch of the objective location. Eventually, I ended up using the skills to thin out the herd if possible, not caring too much if I got busted or not, as fighting seemed to be inevitable regardless. I think I managed to do one daring escape in all my hours spent.

lamplight3.jpg
Another thing the game does to alleviate the suffering of continual massive battles, is the morale system. Certain characters in your group, with the addition of items, do morale damage instead of direct damage to health. And when that threshold is reached, the unit affected goes into a panic mode, which makes him or her a free kill despite the amount of health remaining (if you are in melee range, that is). This aspect of the combat works fine, but the only issue is that it takes time for the morale damage to inflict any serious harm. Often the battle is already over when the enemy starts to call for mommy. It makes the morale damaging skills feel pretty useless at times. Granted, occasionally when the stars align perfectly in the sky it works well, and is actually helpful. Mostly on high-hp enemies that take a while to whittle down the normal way, yet are vulnerable to getting mind-raped.

What is truly devastating, much more than getting knocked out normally in combat, is having your men suffer a morale break themselves. You can always soothe the pain of getting injured back in base, making the agent in question fit for duty again. But a morale break? Oh boy. It comes with serious penalties that last up to three weeks (basically 3 missions). These penalties are random, some worse than others. For example, I got the speed penalty on my melee brawler Ingrid, which made her totally useless in battle. You can get rid of these penalties much faster by taking them on a mission. The penalty gets removed if you avoid suffering another break. It’s a big risk, considering the consequences, and the penalty itself, which will make the mission harder. I enjoyed this mechanic, as it forced me to rotate out my main guys, for someone unproven to test out. There is no other real incentive to do so when you found a good group.

lamplight9.jpg

Sadly, for the soldiers, flame resistant suits were not on the agenda

The base

Back in base, you get to hear your people yapping about all manner of things, but the most important and fun thing here is to upgrade your men with new items and acquired talent points. The talent points are shared between all the agents, with you deciding if you want to focus on making one superhero, or make the whole team slightly better. Sadly, there isn’t too much base-building that the Xcom genre is known for. There are a couple of non-combat characters that expand the abilities of your group, making it an active choice to find these dudes. In that sense, you build up your base, but it comes with a price.

The thing is, there is a doom clock ticking down for everything you do, on a weekly basis, as missions move the time forward one week. So, you will have to decide if you should go for a new helpful character, an exotic item or a mission that sets the doom clock back a snap. Narrative-wise, it unfortunately does not do much. But in the form of gameplay, it adds some needed tension. As things go on, and the doom clock ticks closer to the final end, the enemy becomes tougher and gets more and better skills. Many players don’t like this kind of mechanic, but I appreciated it. The added pressure felt fine, in an otherwise not too difficult game (if you know what you are doing). The extra challenge was welcomed. And it made your choices on the campaign map come with consequences, since thanks to the clock, there is not enough time to tackle every mission.

lamplight16.jpg

Another day, another massacre

Deja vu

I have to add that the missions get very repetitive after a while, as there are just not enough objectives to complete to keep one interested. This means, you will run the same kind of missions over and over, in a very grindy fashion. Most of the time, you can’t even avoid it, as you are forced to do these cloned missions thanks to the doom clock reaching critical. Have fun destroying teleportation towers, is all I can say. The main missions also repeat, as you need to find 4 of something, or do 3 of these things. It feels like major padding, instead of creating something unique and exciting to look forward to. Much like the undercooked stealth gameplay, the design for the missions seem a little rushed.

It’s a shame too, because the combat works, and can be very enjoyable. It’s cool to see all the systems interact with each other in a satisfactory way. For instance, when you kick a bad guy into a fiery pit of pain that your other agent set up. The two major phases of the gameplay also interact well: the world conquest/base-management and the more direct turn-based skirmishing. Regretfully, everything has this sense of aimlessness to it. The mechanics are there, and it works, yet it’s lackluster. It’s missing the flair to make it stand out, and turn the fun to grind quite fast.

lamplight8.jpg

My plan is to stare at this map until something happens

The cartoon look

The graphics are passable, but I can’t say I liked the overly cartoony look of the characters. I can see what they were going for here, but this style of artwork does not work for me at all. It reminds me of Fortnite, a game I despise. Cartoon characters seems to be the rage nowadays. Which is fine, as these trends come and go, yet there is no denying that this style hampers the seriousness of any setting. It certainly does for The Lamplighters League. A game that at times tries to maintain a serious tone, but that instantly undermines itself thanks to its goofy graphic style.

Music and voice is much better, since some serious effort went into the soundscape. The only thing that can and will drag it down is the script. It leans towards the “Marvel-tier” writing at intervals, which consists of a permanent state of sarcasm and quirkiness. It’s not too bad, though, but it’s there waiting for you when you finally decide to listen in.

Conclusion
The Lamplighters League is far from a great game. It feels lackluster in parts of its gameplay, and very grindy periodically. Despite that, I had fun thanks to its involved gameplay systems working in tandem to create amusing and creative situations. The story wasn’t very interesting, but the presentation did entice me enough to eventually finish it. All in all, it’s a mediocre game, somewhat enjoyable if you like turn-based combat. However, it could have been a lot better, which makes the whole thing bittersweet. A few more months of development would have made wonders for the game. But seeing as it’s a Paradox game, it was doomed the moment production started. Do I recommend it? Well, yes, but only if you like the modern Xcom games, and you can find it cheap. It’s definitely not worth the full price.

Thanks for reading.


Essentially, an okay modern Xcom attempt, that would have been good if given time.
 
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