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The Legend of Heroes Thread - Trails of Cold Steel in the Sky

Lyre Mors

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,426
The pacing seems to be faster in this one, which is good. But I shove the doors so far away away, so what's the best point to stop and do them in one rush? Is Chapter 7 still early enough or should I think of doing all that stuff earlier? And do the chapters stay short until the finale or will they get longer before that?

Do doors whenever at this point, though I found that it's much better to just do them as they come so you have some variety in between the story heavy ones. Chapters stay a fairly consistent length throughout, but really they wouldn't have been so short if you had just done doors as you found them.

Either way, enjoy my favorite game in the series! It kind of sounds like you're just trying to rush through it. Slow down and enjoy.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
The pacing seems to be faster in this one, which is good. But I shove the doors so far away away, so what's the best point to stop and do them in one rush? Is Chapter 7 still early enough or should I think of doing all that stuff earlier? And do the chapters stay short until the finale or will they get longer before that?

Do doors whenever at this point, though I found that it's much better to just do them as they come so you have some variety in between the story heavy ones. Chapters stay a fairly consistent length throughout, but really they wouldn't have been so short if you had just done doors as you found them.

Either way, enjoy my favorite game in the series! It kind of sounds like you're just trying to rush through it. Slow down and enjoy.

One thing I wish I had done when playing TITS 3 was to chill out and explore the home base more.
 
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Harry Easter

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One thing I wish I had done when playing TITS 3 was to chill out and explore the home base more.

Lots of missable content?

Either way, enjoy my favorite game in the series! It kind of sounds like you're just trying to rush through it. Slow down and enjoy.

Oh I enjoy this one too! It has so far the best boss fights, the monster design is also my favorite (I'm a sucker for good monster design) and Kevin is a way more appealing maincharacter than Joshua (who was alright, but meh) and the plot hooked me. That's the problem though: I'm so hooked by the plot now, that I don't want to be slowed down by the doors. Titas door scared me a little in that regard (one hour and no gameplay at all!), so I want to see the bosses first before I do the sidestuff. I mean, I see the practical side (money and Orbs), but it's so exciting right now :D.
 

Lyre Mors

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,426
Oh I enjoy this one too! It has so far the best boss fights, the monster design is also my favorite (I'm a sucker for good monster design) and Kevin is a way more appealing maincharacter than Joshua (who was alright, but meh) and the plot hooked me. That's the problem though: I'm so hooked by the plot now, that I don't want to be slowed down by the doors. Titas door scared me a little in that regard (one hour and no gameplay at all!), so I want to see the bosses first before I do the sidestuff. I mean, I see the practical side (money and Orbs), but it's so exciting right now :D.

Well, just remember that many of the doors provide a backbone for a lot of world building you will see and be piecing together for the next 6 games. It's all very exciting stuff on its own. While Tita's door was touching and interesting in its own way, there aren't too many that are quite that slow moving/long.

Don't miss any of the doors, except maybe the Sun doors!

EDIT: Oh yeah, I think you actually have to complete all the Sun Doors to get access to all the doors.
 
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Deleted member 7219

Guest
Oh I enjoy this one too! It has so far the best boss fights, the monster design is also my favorite (I'm a sucker for good monster design) and Kevin is a way more appealing maincharacter than Joshua (who was alright, but meh) and the plot hooked me. That's the problem though: I'm so hooked by the plot now, that I don't want to be slowed down by the doors. Titas door scared me a little in that regard (one hour and no gameplay at all!), so I want to see the bosses first before I do the sidestuff. I mean, I see the practical side (money and Orbs), but it's so exciting right now :D.

Well, just remember that many of the doors provide a backbone for a lot of world building you will see and be piecing together for the next 6 games. It's all very exciting stuff on its own. While Tita's door was touching and interesting in its own way, there aren't too many that are quite that slow moving/long.

Don't miss any of the doors, except maybe the Sun doors!

This is absolutely correct. At least two of the doors (Renne and Ouroboros) have importance right through Zero, Azure, all the way to Cold Steel IV.

Playing Cold Steel IV right now, I want to go straight back to TITS 3 and see the door content again.
 
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Harry Easter

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Messages
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Little update: I finished more doors than I thought. Right now I did 9 star doors, all moondoors and almost all sundoors :D. But yeah, this was the right tactic. Now I have finished a lot of the sidecontent and can just soldier on.

My favorite group right now: Kevin, Ries, a certain soldier and Josette. I try to skip on Olivier, Schera and Joshua, since those three, combined with Estelle, were my standard group back then and I like trying new dynamics.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Little update: I finished more doors than I thought. Right now I did 9 star doors, all moondoors and almost all sundoors :D. But yeah, this was the right tactic. Now I have finished a lot of the sidecontent and can just soldier on.

My favorite group right now: Kevin, Ries, a certain soldier and Josette. I try to skip on Olivier, Schera and Joshua, since those three, combined with Estelle, were my standard group back then and I like trying new dynamics.

Josette?

:hmmm:
 
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Harry Easter

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Jul 27, 2016
Messages
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Jupp. Just for fun. Descent shot, she creates earthquakes and her S-Craft is okay. But mostly just to have a character in the group, that I normally would never use. If I could chose any of the Capua Siblings,it would be Kyle. He always was the most dangerous.
 
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Joined
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DFW, Texas
I'm playing through Trails of Cold Steel for the first time, and I was wondering whether you get something worthwhile for completing the chapters with an S rating? Do you get bonus dialogue, cutscenes, or anything like that?

Also do the relationship mechanics actually matter?
 

Ysaye

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May 27, 2018
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Location
Australia
I'm playing through Trails of Cold Steel for the first time, and I was wondering whether you get something worthwhile for completing the chapters with an S rating? Do you get bonus dialogue, cutscenes, or anything like that?

Also do the relationship mechanics actually matter?

No not fundamentally or directly, however an S rating is normally based upon completing all the subquests (sometimes it is an indication that you missed a hidden one) or talking to important people, and subquests and talking to important people often have a lot of lore /relevant titbits that will often help give even more context to stuff that will jump out at you later and become more rewarding. The first time I finished ToCS I didn't get S for all the chapters (I was pretty close) and I wasn't disappointed.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
I'm playing through Trails of Cold Steel for the first time, and I was wondering whether you get something worthwhile for completing the chapters with an S rating? Do you get bonus dialogue, cutscenes, or anything like that?

Also do the relationship mechanics actually matter?

No not fundamentally or directly, however an S rating is normally based upon completing all the subquests (sometimes it is an indication that you missed a hidden one) or talking to important people, and subquests and talking to important people often have a lot of lore /relevant titbits that will often help give even more context to stuff that will jump out at you later and become more rewarding. The first time I finished ToCS I didn't get S for all the chapters (I was pretty close) and I wasn't disappointed.

Also, the relationship mechanics give you a special cutscene at the end of the game (and more special cutscenes in the sequels).
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,276
I'm playing through Trails of Cold Steel for the first time, and I was wondering whether you get something worthwhile for completing the chapters with an S rating? Do you get bonus dialogue, cutscenes, or anything like that?

Also do the relationship mechanics actually matter?

You need S rank on all chapter to max out AP on CS1, which give a special item, and some minor bonus for CS2.

I've nearly finished replaying CS3 with difficulty mod (summer festival, i'm past sewer special guest section) , i will probably leave a review here when it's over.
 

HoboForEternity

LIBERAL PROPAGANDIST
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liberal utopia in progress
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Happy Valentine's day from the seeker of love, Olivier The Bard

EuLyzDvXAAEPWqD.jpg
 
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Harry Easter

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Messages
819
Happy Valentine's day from the seeker of love, Olivier The Bard

View attachment 17576

If those two aren't doing it in Trails 1-3, they did at least before the start of the game. Also, Olivier is the best character. Always.

Edit: I finished 3rd! 50 hours, I almost did all doors and overall I enjoyes this one. Kevin and Ries are a compelling mainduo, the plot overall is good and we had a nice sendoff for all characters. I do get the feeling that this once started as a playable epilogue and then got bigger. Good for me. The combat was perfected in this one, the monster design is the best in all three games and until the last boss, the bossfights are also the biggest highlight for me.

I also love how they deepened the religious lore. In Dragon Quest they believe just in a goddess and there are demons. In Trails I do now know, what the church really believes. They are still fantasy-catholics, but at least now I know, that they are very very catholic :D.

But I do feel, that the pemise of the game is a bit underused. The whole scenario could've been separated from the other games and shouldered it's own, but that's overall a minor nitpick.

Now I will have a pause and wait until I start with Zero. Curious how that duology will be, since I read the second Crossbellgame has the best story of the series. We'll see, right now SC is my favorite.
 
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Deleted member 7219

Guest
I completed Trails of Cold Steel 4 last night, and I'm now reading back through this thread to see the thoughts of cruel and Ysaye. They've said the most important things much better than I ever could.

So here are my own raw, undiluted thoughts:

It wraps everything up quite nicely for the TOCS series, while keeping some key Trails mysteries open for the next games. It also deals quite nicely with some plot points left open from TitS and Zero/Azure. The main story still has some problems originating from the end of TOCS 3. It does its best to explain them away, but I just don't buy all the character motivations, and I wish they would be made to deal with the consequences of their actions (other than a stern telling off by Class VII when they get beaten).

As others have said, the enthusiasm shown by so many characters to END THE WORLD is unbelievable and takes you right out of things. They try to explain it in TOCS 4 by saying they were affected by the curse or whatever. For me, this did explain Ash's actions quite nicely, but Rufus isn't shown to be curse affected and neither is Lechter (unless I missed the eye thing with them). It's outrageous that only Rufus goes to prison at the end and not Lechter too. Frankly, a whole bunch of Erebonian characters should be put in the Zemurian equivalent of The Hague (maybe a trial in Arteria) for the outrageous shit they pulled. Principal Vandyck is another who should know fucking better. The jaegers absolutely should not be going along with this shit. The end of the world for them means no more money. Arios MacLaine should also be rotting in a prison cell for the horrific shit he did in Azure.

The only bad guy motivations that made sense were Ouroboros, because at least with them they're always about the master plan... although, what if Class VII failed, and the Great One got reborn? Did Ouroboros have a backup? Or do they actually want to see the world go to shit because they're actually all about multiple worlds (hinted at in the game?). I guess that has to be the case, otherwise they are fucking stupid too.

I was glad to see in the epilogue slides that the other Zemurian nations demanded reparations from Erebonia - the closest we'll see to realistic politics in Trails. At least people were actually pissed off instead of, "Oh, you did evil shit, but we're friends! We're friends! Let's be friends again and pretend it never happened", which happens far too much in Trails. I hope in the next games they show further repercussions against Erebonia, maybe disarmament (though hard to see this happening when Erebonia was not beaten militarily in any way), reduction in territory etc. It would have been nice to see some deaths, quite frankly. Campanella would be a good start. Cedric is a cunt and should be punched in the face repeatedly - with Olivert being made Crown Prince and heir. Sharon cannot be trusted and should be locked up (the behaviour of Alisa towards her is mystifying at this point), alongside Alisa's mother too for war crimes.

Character wise, it was nice to see so many returning favourites, acting just like they did when we last saw them (although Renne and KeA are shown to be a little bit older, given that this is set 2 years after Azure). I got a lot of satisfaction out of playing Estelle and Joshua again. They pretty much sound like I imagined them... I get the feeling they hired the same voice actors who did the S-breaks in TITS.

As for the game itself... I liked the length. I felt that the story was given all the time it needed to be a satisfying wrap up for Class VII. I aslo appreciated the treatment of all the Class VII characters, bonding events etc. My main party throughout most of the game was Rean, Juna (replaced by Fie when cheesing bosses), Altina and Musse with Kurt, Ash and Sara in reserve. I didn't feel the need to use the old Class VII characters that much because they did such a great job building up the new Class VII characters this time around - but the old Class VII characters get attention too, be it in main story events or bonding events. Other than that, the main gameplay is the same, combat is still good, orders have been expanded. I really liked having the Courageous back. I didn't play Pom Pom as I hated it in Azure (I think only autistic Japanese people can keep up with the speed of that game), played a bit of Vantage Masters but not to a huge extent.

I think they very nearly fucked it up massively at the end. When I saw the first ending I thought, "Seriously? You gave this the subtitle "End of Saga" in Japan yet you're leaving it on a cliffhanger worse than the one in TOCS 1? What are you doing?". But I had already unlocked the true ending thanks to wanting to kill all the Cryptids (for the sweet quartz) so I carried on straight through. Anyone who hadn't done that would have been seriously pissed though, and missed out on a huge amount of story wrap up.

I'll have more to say when I've had time to process. I think I'll write a better post on TOCS 4 when I've completed it again on PC. For now, bring on Hajimari!

Obligatory series ranking:

TOCS 2 > TOCS 4 > TOCS 3 > TITS > TITS 2 > TOCS > Zero > Azure > TITS 3
 
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cruel

Prophet
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Sep 17, 2014
Messages
1,031
It's amazing how different people can be. Your main party was 'never use those guys' in my case, unless forced to.

What game are you planning to fill the void after CS4? I'm trying 13 Sentinels, and while it's pretty good (and gives some high school vibes + good story + interesting characters), it's not exactly the same level of pleasure as Cold Steel :(
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
It's amazing how different people can be. Your main party was 'never use those guys' in my case, unless forced to.

What game are you planning to fill the void after CS4? I'm trying 13 Sentinels, and while it's pretty good (and gives some high school vibes + good story + interesting characters), it's not exactly the same level of pleasure as Cold Steel :(

I'm currently replaying TOCS 2 PC on NG+, Nightmare. I want to complete the extra shrine and also go for 100% achievements, having done that already on TOCS 1 PC. Then I'll look at doing the same for TOCS 3 PC unless TOCS 4 PC is released first - that'll take priority.

Other than that, I'm not playing any other RPGs at the moment. I've put Persona 5 PS4 on hold as it looks like we might get a PC version. That'll probably be the next JRPG I'll put time into that isn't Trails.
 

Jermu

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It's amazing how different people can be. Your main party was 'never use those guys' in my case, unless forced to.

What game are you planning to fill the void after CS4? I'm trying 13 Sentinels, and while it's pretty good (and gives some high school vibes + good story + interesting characters), it's not exactly the same level of pleasure as Cold Steel :(

Even when I'm huge trails fan I liked 13 Sentinels more than CS4 which is quite something. If you haven't you should try the Yakuza 7
 

StaticSpine

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Moscow
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
It's amazing how different people can be. Your main party was 'never use those guys' in my case, unless forced to.

What game are you planning to fill the void after CS4? I'm trying 13 Sentinels, and while it's pretty good (and gives some high school vibes + good story + interesting characters), it's not exactly the same level of pleasure as Cold Steel :(
Dude, Yakuza: Like a Dragon.
 
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Ventidius

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Jul 8, 2017
Messages
552
So, I finished Cold Steel IV yesterday. Some observations, with spoilers included:

- Definitely the longest game in the series. Took me around 90 hours in all to finish it, which is about 10-20 hours more than it took me to beat the first three. I generally got the impression that this game simply has more content (levels, areas, encounters, quests, etc) than any of the others.

- I'm not sure the increase in size actually works to the game's advantage. Even though the content quantity has been increased, it seems that the quality has been diluted to an extent. Level design is a case in point. There is only one level that springs to mind that comes close to the better dungeons from ToCS 3, that being the Einhel Keep level, which I admit was pretty cool. Prof. Schmidt was conjuring some heavy Mad Overlord vibes there. Other than that, the level design seems to have experienced a regression, something that reverses the trend seen since ToCS 2 onwards of actually improving the level design in each game. A part of this was them more or less ditching the levels where two or three parties cooperated with each other to progress through the dungeon. There are still levels where you control many parties, but they operate pretty much separately. Kinda sad they didn't expand on this idea.

-Some users have already stated in this thread that the combat gets harder in every Cold Steel entry. I concur with that, and this game definitely continues that trend. This is probably the hardest of the Cold Steel games. I played it on Hard, and have got to say it gives Cold Steel 3 Nightmare a run for its money. The tactic of alpha striking with S-Crafts/Domination - the importance of which has frankly always been blown out of proportion by people who want to dismiss the combat in the series - has been brutally nerfed. Of the ToCS games, this is probably the one with the lowest amount of bosses that can be taken out with this kind of strategy. There are, of course, still some major encounters where it works, not to mention the odd boss/sub-boss for which it is the optimal strategy.

I haven't played through the Sky games, but I've seen people mention in forums that Earth Wall spam is the most broken strategy in those. Supposing that is indeed the case, then ToCS 4 could perhaps be seen as a throwback to that, as the most surefire strategy to get through sticky situations was usually to keep my party buffed up with Adamantine Shield, Crescent Mirror, and Shining (not to mention bringing Emma along for both her S-Craft and Order). Part of this is due to the high durability of the bosses, which means you have to secure your own survivability in turn, but it's also due to the increased proliferation of status effects, as enemies (and not just bosses either) will after some point start handing those out like candy.

When the combat is at its best, it works very well and is typically an exercise on knowing the system, paying attention to the types of attacks, moves, status effects, and tactics used by your foes, and using buffs and positioning to counter. The best example of this was probably the Pantagruel boss gauntlet. At its worst, however, the combat feels like a bloated battle of attrition where the outcome (in your favor) is not really in doubt, due to how cheese-able some of the buff-centric strategies can be. Even the bosses that can cancel your buffs don't change that, neither does the new ability some enemies have to riddle you with "negative" orders that debuff/hinder you and prevent you from using orders. Compared to that, even the battles in ToCS 2 and 3 where you could indeed just alpha strike were preferable. At least those were over quickly.

Early game is still generally more challenging than late game, as expected, and this is probably the most interesting thing about ToCS 4's rather sluggish early game (something that was especially disappointing considering how strong the intro was). Overall, the combat is something of a mixed bag, and even though it is likely the hardest of the ToCS games, it's still not a particularly difficult game. It should be noted, however, that like the other ToCS games, it's not mindless either.

-The game proceeds in a very linear and story-driven way, with exploration being weaker than it was in previous entries. The return of the ToCS 2 style open world is welcome, and the shift away from the school setting means that side content is structured in a less rote manner than it was in 1 and 3, as expected. However, the actual side content is not as interesting as it was in ToCS 2. Probably because back then there was a civil war going on in the explorable regions, while in 4 the actual war is only going on in the frontier with Calvard. It's fine that you can travel around to many regions, but there isn't much of a point when there isn't much of interest there. This is perhaps compounded (or alleviated, depending on how you see it) by the fact that the class score system feels more lenient than in previous entries. Furthermore, since the regions are practically the same as in ToCS 3, there isn't much of a sense of slow exploration and discovery of new areas of the setting (which was a strength of both ToCS 1 and 3). IMO in this aspect the game has neither the strengths of ToCS 2 nor those of 1 and 3. That said, some of the side quests are really cool, like the ones with Estelle and Lloyd (both in the final Act).

-The character system and the combat mechanics seem roughly the same as in ToCS 3. Not much experimentation going on here. Some enemies now have "negative" orders, as I mentioned, but the overall impact is negligible. Lost Arts are back and there are now Level 4 EX Orbs for your mechs, but mechanically, this is probably the Cold Steel game that changed the least from its predecessor. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you. Cold Steel 3 was great in terms of character customization and systems. The combat mechanics had their drawbacks, but they also made for good fun a lot of the time. A lot of that carried over to this game, leaving aside the changes in the approach to encounter design. Probably the best thing to be said about this element in ToCS 4 is the fact that, after a certain point, you get a great cast of characters plus a lot of control over said cast. When it comes to these last two points, this is probably the best game in the series, and it certainly facilitates the building of your ultimate Cold Steel band of bros (or waifus?) and (mostly) keeping it together all the way through (though "mission locked" characters still abound, as usual). There were apparently some complaints about some fan favorties (like Crow) being too weak, but overall I found that the unit balance was decently done, and I didn't have a lot of problems with my preferred party setup.

-The story is probably the weakest in the series. They avoided the trap of blaming everything on Ishmelga, but at the cost of making nonsense of the motivations of a lot of the characters working with Osborne. The 'fantastic' stuff seems, as I feared after ToCS 3, to have taken over completely. It has, of course, always been there. Not only in the series, but in Cold Steel itself. But in 1 and 2 this kind of thing was usually subsumed within political/war drama elements that were honestly more interesting. In ToCS 3 it does take over, but more or less by the end of the game. Here it permeates everything from the get-go. That said, the game sorta compensates by simply offering a lot of spectacle and 'epic' moments, the best parts probably being those that involved a lot of the characters and groups working together (both Class VIIs, the SSS, the Bracers, Mille Mirage, etc). Highlights include the Pantagruel and the Mishelam section near the end. The interactions between Rean and Cassius were pretty cool too, especially that classic anime moment when Rean masters the ultimate technique. I also think that, whatever its flaws, the story provides adequate closure for the arc, even if IMO it's not as interesting as those of the previous three games overall and by itself.

All in all, I felt ToCS 4 was, in its own way, just as good as ToCS 2 and 3 and better than ToCS1. Like all of the other games in the series, it has its pros and cons, but when all is said and done, it does have this going for it: it's one of those rare games that gives you a feeling of having completed an epic journey by the end. In part this is simply due to how freaking time-consuming it is. But that is also due to both the game's massive scope and the fact that it brings an already epic series to its conclusion while delivering a lot of memorable moments in the process. I'd definitely recommend it to people who have stuck with the series from 1 to 3.

EDIT: In retrospect, I was probably a bit harsh on the game in my concluding assessment. Amended that.
 
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Sarathiour

Cipher
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Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,276
Falcom posted a few update and screenshot regarding Kuro no Kiseki :

The-Legend-of-Heroes-Kuro-no-Kiseki-2.png

Higher Rez Turn-based screenshot:
LoH-Kuro-no-Kiseki-Battle_03-03-21_002.jpg

Some have speculated that i wil be kinda like atelier Ryza combat system, but my interpretation is that it will be sill pretty close from the previous one : The diamond-shaped icon on top of screen are probably placeholder, and will serve to represent your team action order on the left, and the enemy's one on the right.

Also combat link are gone, and we will get new mechanics instead, like the S-boost gauge on the top left of the screen.
 

rashiakas

Cipher
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Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
837
Pathfinder: Wrath
9th eh? time to finish my 2nd playtrough of tocs3 then.
 

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