Incline The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild for Wii U and Switch

[buru5]

My least favorite Zelda game.

Liking skyward sword more than this? That's a bit fucked up.

No it's not. Skyward Sword was the last mainline Zelda-styled game. Breath of the Wild barely resembles Zelda -- it could be a completely new franchise for Nintendo (and if it had been it wouldn't have received nearly as much praise).

Regardless, true patricians understand that Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game.

 

[Delterius]

Regardless, true patricians understand that Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game.

You misspelled Majora's Mask.

 

[buru5]

Regardless, true patricians understand that Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game.

You misspelled Majora's Mask.

Twilight Princess beats Majora's Mask by combat alone.

 

[Delterius]

Regardless, true patricians understand that Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game.

You misspelled Majora's Mask.

Twilight Princess beats Majora's Mask by combat alone.

Next you'll tell me Breath of the Wild is the best Zelda because of hiking alone.

 

[buru5]

Regardless, true patricians understand that Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game.

You misspelled Majora's Mask.

Twilight Princess beats Majora's Mask by combat alone.

Next you'll tell me Breath of the Wild is the best Zelda because of hiking alone.

Not an argument.

 

[Delterius]

Regardless, true patricians understand that Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game.

You misspelled Majora's Mask.

Twilight Princess beats Majora's Mask by combat alone.

Next you'll tell me Breath of the Wild is the best Zelda because of hiking alone.

Not an argument.

 

[buru5]

"Muh video response"

Form your own argument.

Video is a meme video anyways and still not an argument -- considering this same thing is in Majora's Mask. One monster, doesn't display the multiple skills you learn throughout the game to mix shit up either. Disingenuous. Try again.

If you like Majora's Mask more because of grim dark edgy tween nonsense then don't bother responding.

 

[Delterius]

considering this same thing is in Majora's Mask

That's the point, sweetie.

Nobody in the history of sanity has ever played Zelda because of its combat.

And as far as exploration and adventure goes, Majora's Mask was a more interesting world and had more interesting aims than Ocarina of Time and other 3D Zeldas.

 

[buru5]

considering this same thing is in Majora's Mask

That's the point, sweetie.

Nobody in the history of sanity has ever played Zelda because of its combat.

And as far as exploration and adventure goes, Majora's Mask was a more interesting world and had more interesting aims than Ocarina of Time and other 3D Zeldas.

That's not the point, honey. And Twitter's this way. Also your feels > reals argument doesn't work here.

Twilight Princess has the best combat out of any Zelda game, including horse combat. Evidenced by the fact that you can defeat enemies in numerous ways with various sword techniques and even shield bashing. You add that to the big overworld, great dungeons, interesting items and boss fights -- how can it not be a highlight? If you removed combat from Zelda games to begin with, by your logic, it wouldn't matter to anyone -- which is fucking retarded.

Majora's Mask lacks content, dungeons, and a gimmick that requires you to play songs to slow down time making the gimmick pointless to begin with while taking away some of your freedom of exploration at the same time. The exploration itself is hampered by its small overworld and the fact that there are only 4 dungeons, many of which reuse the same mini-bosses. Yes, I love fighting Wizrobe over and over. Such fun. The bosses themselves are garbage too. Double worms that you slash at over and over, wow. None of the bosses came close to matching TPs; Stallord being one of the most fun bosses in the entire series.

It's by no means a terrible game. It excels at atmosphere, world building and side content but not much else.

 

[Delterius]

Twilight Princess has the best combat out of any Zelda game, including horse combat.

Its the least mediocre combat in a series of games that never featured good combat. Nobody cares.

Majora's Mask lacks content, dungeons, and a gimmick that requires you to play songs to slow down time making the gimmick pointless to begin with while taking away some of your freedom of exploration at the same time

If you feel hampered by the 3 day cycle you need to actually play the game.

It excels at atmosphere, world building and side content

So its excellent at 80% of a Zelda's content. Very commendable indeed. Perhaps one does not need to go full autism at a joke just because they pff haahaaha enjoys Twilight Princess the most... for the combat of all things.

Nope, still can't take that one seriously.

 

[buru5]

Twilight Princess has the best combat out of any Zelda game, including horse combat.

Nobody cares.

Majora's Mask lacks content, dungeons, and a gimmick that requires you to play songs to slow down time making the gimmick pointless to begin with while taking away some of your freedom of exploration at the same time

If you feel hampered by the 3 day cycle you need to actually play the game.

It excels at atmosphere, world building and side content

So its excellent at 80% of a Zelda's content. Very commendable indeed. Perhaps one does not need to go full autism at a joke just because they pff like haahaaha enjoys Twilight Princess... for the combat.

Nope, still can't take that one seriously.

Played the game while you were still in diapers but it's nice that you feel that way.

Now post a proper argument.

 

[Delterius]

Played the game while you were still in diapers but it's nice that you feel that way.

Now post a proper argument.

Oh, so you're just incompetent.

Now I can see why Twilight Princess' combat blew your mind.

 

[buru5]

Played the game while you were still in diapers but it's nice that you feel that way.

Now post a proper argument.

Oh, so you're just incompetent.

Now I can see why Twilight Princess' combat blew your mind.

You're not even trying at this point.

 

[Delterius]

Played the game while you were still in diapers but it's nice that you feel that way.

Now post a proper argument.

Oh, so you're just incompetent.

Now I can see why Twilight Princess' combat blew your mind.

You're not even trying at this point.

You never did. I mean, to consider a Zelda's combat to be worthy of notice?

Good God.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Wtf is this retardation. It’s very obvious that the best Zelda is Wand of Gamelon.

 

[Delterius]

Wtf is this retardation. It’s very obvious that the best Zelda is Wand of Gamelon.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Pass the grass, Link.

And I agree with buru5 on TP. It was the most fun 3D Zelda for me. Yeah, its combat isn't the best thing ever, but it is good for a Zelda game, and something that they should've obviously expanded upon, not abandon. Combat in BotW is kinda lame in comparison, and felt like a huge step down for me as I came in expecting that I was going to unlock new moves. The biggest issue with BotW in general is that after you complete the Plateau and unlock your Runes, the gameplay doesn't really evolve much beyond that, which is the antithesis of Zelda as these games always were about horizontal and vertical gameplay progression (i.e unlocking new abilities that grant you access to new secrets and areas and upgrading your combat strength in the form of new weapons, hearts, spells and mana). You get everything you need within the first hour or two of the game. Stamina upgrades are not mandatory since you can compensate with Stamina food and, eventually, Revali's Gale, to scale up higher areas.

Jumping back to the combat, BotW has some pretty decently challenging enemies, especially the Lynels, but overall the experience comes off a bit shallow as your personal combat abilities are kinda non existent beyond basic evasion and attacking. The biggest upgrade to your direct combat capabilities that you can get beyond the Plateau is the Stasis upgrade, which is just a borderline cheat imo. After that, perhaps the lightning spell, Urbosa's Fury, but it's on a 10~ minute timer after using it 3 times. It's hard to feel excited when you obtain these abilities.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Twiligth Princess was the last good Zelda game that followed the LttP/OoT formula.

BotW doesn't follow that formula that's why some of you think it's not a Zelda game. What you don't know is that BotW tries to go back to it's roots, namely the first ever Zelda game. Why? Because the first Zelda game like BotW was trying to be a completely non-linear game. Like BotW you could go anywhere from the start, you could complete any area/dungeon in the order you saw fit, and you could most of the times surpass it's obstacles in multiple ways.
Meaning that BotW is the first Zelda game in a very long time to have player agency.

Ya sure it's not as tight as the other Zelda games that follow the formula, and there problems (when I got time I will make a review), but the game is still great, innovative and the fact it doesn't follow the formula is for the most part a very good thing. In fact BotW IMHO is just the best open world game to have come out since New Vegas. Something wich is fucking astonishing considering it was made by Nintendo who was almost no experience making games like these.

Also: "TP's combat is good, because unlike BotW combat it has different moves". What!? Seriously?
Since when is "Press A twice + B to do something awesome and instantly win" incline? Like Delterius said, Zelda's combat was never meant to be an attraction, because they aren't these games focus. Besides I'll take BotW excelent's enemy design everyday over more complex combat mechanics.

Also also. Majora's Mask is the best 3D Zelda game to follow the classic formula.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

The best thing about BOTW is that the game evolves around your skill and your apprenticeship of Link's abilities and Sheika modules. It's the opposite of the classic backtracking formula were Link's capabilities were determined by the progression of the player in the main story and the items that he found through the adventure. For me, Breath of the wild is one of the best 3D games of the series, with with Ocarina of time and Majora's mask. An authentic tribute and return of the original formula from the first game. And the only true flaw of the game that I can pick is that there's no enough varierty of "free bosses" (You know. Hinox, Petratorks, Moldora/Moldugas). Because those bosses could have been the best excuse for improving Link's health, armor and stuff. The lack of true challenges worthy of all the health containers (And improvements in the case of BOTW) you obtain in a Zelda game as rewards of secondary missions is the most glaring and classic issue of these games. And Breath of the wild does not improve in that regard, while it has the key to solve that problem: Bosses. Just secondary, powerful bosses. Just imagine entering in a random forest and then finding Gohma, or encountering King dodongo in the cliffs of Death mountain.

Twilight princess is the most consequent ,unoriginal Zelda game ever, but thanks to that is the most polished Zelda ever inside the formula of OOT.

 

[Krzysiek]

Very good analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the new Zelda:

This one is also quite good but a bit lengthy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T15-xfUr8z4

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

I'm not agree with some things but I think this is overall a very good analysys of the dungeons of BOTW.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Twiligth Princess was the last good Zelda game that followed the LttP/OoT formula.

BotW doesn't follow that formula that's why some of you think it's not a Zelda game. What you don't know is that BotW tries to go back to it's roots, namely the first ever Zelda game. Why? Because the first Zelda game like BotW was trying to be a completely non-linear game.

Zelda 1, while being non linear, still had the core elements of a Zelda game which was the dungeon crawling with gaining new powers to unlock secret areas. The similarities begin and end with the openness. Gameplay wise Zelda 1 is Zelda and BotW is, well, a Ubisoft game with Zelda painted on it. I know you said complete non-linearity, but LttP had lots of non-linearity as well. Most Zelda games had non-linearity of varying degree. It's been years since I played TLoZ, but I don't think that game was entirely non-linear either. BotW is *the* most non-linear Zelda game; one of the most non-linear games period. So I don't really see this as going back to its roots as non-linearity has always been present, more or less.

but the game is still great, innovative

Innovative how? It does everything that all open world games have been doing ever since Assassins Creed came out in 2007 and popularized this kind of game. Open world now means having a vast game area where you climb a tower to unlock a region of a map so you can see where all the little distractions are, then you spend 5-15 minutes per PoI running from distraction to distraction. Instead of having 120 teeny tiny shrines, why not combine them into real, actual dungeons? They have the content for but, but no. Stretching them out in little segments over swathes of empty land inflates gameplay time, it appeals to the OCD collectors, and Nintendo is hoping that some people can't be assed to do all 120 of them to get Link's iconic armor and instead will buy an Amiibo to get it.

 

[buru5]

Twiligth Princess was the last good Zelda game that followed the LttP/OoT formula.

BotW doesn't follow that formula that's why some of you think it's not a Zelda game. What you don't know is that BotW tries to go back to it's roots, namely the first ever Zelda game. Why? Because the first Zelda game like BotW was trying to be a completely non-linear game. Like BotW you could go anywhere from the start, you could complete any area/dungeon in the order you saw fit, and you could most of the times surpass it's obstacles in multiple ways.
Meaning that BotW is the first Zelda game in a very long time to have player agency.

Ya sure it's not as tight as the other Zelda games that follow the formula, and there problems (when I got time I will make a review), but the game is still great, innovative and the fact it doesn't follow the formula is for the most part a very good thing. In fact BotW IMHO is just the best open world game to have come out since New Vegas. Something wich is fucking astonishing considering it was made by Nintendo who was almost no experience making games like these.

Also: "TP's combat is good, because unlike BotW combat it has different moves". What!? Seriously?
Since when is "Press A twice + B to do something awesome and instantly win" incline? Like Delterius said, Zelda's combat was never meant to be an attraction, because they aren't these games focus. Besides I'll take BotW excelent's enemy design everyday over more complex combat mechanics.

Also also. Majora's Mask is the best 3D Zelda game to follow the classic formula.

I'm glad I'll never know what it feels like to be this wrong about anything in my life.

But yes, carry on with your circlejerk. Upvotes for you all.

 

[Delterius]

BotW is *the* most non-linear Zelda game; one of the most non-linear games period. So I don't really see this as going back to its roots as non-linearity has always been present, more or less.

It was always present, yes, but there was a steady decline in the weight of exploration that started with Ocarina of Time and culminated with Skyward's Sword much maligned linearity. To understand how BotW is a return to the series' roots you simply need to realize two things. First, Zelda was always meant to recreate a sense of wonderment taken from Miyamoto's childhood when he would explore caves in the countryside. This means that as much as Zelda was Action/Adventure, it was always focused on the latter. What makes or breaks combat in Zelda are the tools you uncover and how they play in battle. Not some sort of combo system a la platinum or the spatial awareness from the Souls series. Combat was, in short, just one element of the much grander tale of exploration.

The other point that should be made is that exploration isn't just a matter of non-linearity. Take Baldur's Gate for an instance. The vast majority of content in that game is sidequests that you can tackle whenever you want. That's a great thing. But due to the nature of how you explore the universe of Baldur's Gate -- uncovering a map from top down and chasing markers and named NPCs across the world -- it is very difficult to actually miss any of that content. There's no effort involved in navigating terrain and spotting points of interest. That's also the abyss between Morrowind and Oblivion/Skyrim. The latter's quest compass serves to linearize the whole experience, rendering exploration moot.

Case in point, when you unlock a tower in Zelda all you gain is a vantage point and a geographical map. You'll still need to scout for Shrines and other places. This wasn't true when I played the first Assassins Creed and its definitely not true of anything that Bethesda creates. I haven't played the Witcher 3 so I'd like to know what is the case with CD Projekt.

This is why BotW is hailed as a 'return to the roots'. The question is wether this movement was done in a such a way to be a step forward. Well, I can't comment on how derivative the game is since I rarely play these open world games. There are a lot of elements taken straight from Assassins Creed, that is true. And I do feel that by spreading the shrines apart the whole dungeon delving and exploration side of the game got dilluted. However, I appreciate the game for what it is and had a good deal of fun with it, even as Majora's remains my favorite.

I believe that for what it is worth Nintendo managed to create a very good open world incarnation of Zelda in their first try. This shouldn't be undervalued since things could have gone way down south. All I dearly hope is that in the future they manage to combine the best of both worlds, should they decide to continue in this direction.

I'm glad I'll never know what it feels like to be this wrong about anything in my life.

Not an argument.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

While the original Zelda have some linear moments (You need some items to get inside to certain dungeons, like the ladder and the raft), most of the game is nonlinear and offers the possibility of exploring the world and most of the dungeons as you want. In fact you can directly enter in the Level 8 after beginning the game. Bosses can be defeated with the wooden sword and items like the the bombs are dropped by random enemies. That's the spirit that they translated to BOTW. They even created a 2D prototype of the game with the original Zelda engine to see how the new additions were matching with the formula.



(This is a hint for a future Zelda Maker too IMO)

The game is innovative inside the franchise. In comparison with the rest of open world games, is an example of good execution in almost every level. It's more near of Morrowind that to any other open wolrd game, and the way the game uses "mainstream concepts" like AC towers it's just wonderful.