Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Goblino]

But is it good?

 

[Luzur]

But is it good?

....didnt i have this conversation already with someone? Root, is that you??

It is a rushed game that even JVC gave up on, i cannot lie about that, but it is in a playable state even in vanilla (just save alot), but with the TELP patch alot of shit gets fixed which makes it a few notches better then vanilla, but to be able to get the full MM experience you ahve to totally remake the game from scratch in a new engine.

As i said, it depends alot on if you are invested in the whole Might and Magic franchise like some RPG blond master race, or if you are just some wild eyed bum that hop around and play RPG's at random and tend to forget what you played yesterday.

If you are, sure, you should and could play 9 so you can brag about how you played them all like a super goober, if you are not, well....i dunno, pass it and go to MM10 instead.

Or something.

 

[Goblino]

I'm just some wild-eyed bum. I'll probably invest about three hours into it just to know what it was like. I'm less concerned with beating games then I am with just knowing a shitton of them.

 

[Diggfinger]

But is it good?

....didnt i have this conversation already with someone? Root, is that you??

It is a rushed game that even JVC gave up on, i cannot lie about that, but it is in a playable state even in vanilla (just save alot), but with the TELP patch alot of shit gets fixed which makes it a few notches better then vanilla, but to be able to get the full MM experience you ahve to totally remake the game from scratch in a new engine.

As i said, it depends alot on if you are invested in the whole Might and Magic franchise like some RPG blond master race, or if you are just some wild eyed bum that hop around and play RPG's at random and tend to forget what you played yesterday.

If you are, sure, you should and could play 9 so you can brag about how you played them all like a super goober, if you are not, well....i dunno, pass it and go to MM10 instead.

Or something.

From what I understand JVC did not give up on MMIX specifically, but due to industry-fatigue/NCW/3DO economic hardship preferred racing cars rather than spending time in the office making games.
From the Tim Lang interview (see below) - who directed the game - we learn that JVC had not really been a part of the game at all. Therefore, Lang was displeased with JVC's subsequent comments that the game should not have been released in its current state. Indeed, Lang did the best he could with a scrubby engine and the (as usual) enormous time pressure stemming from 3DO's impending financial ruin.

I think the game retains the fun power-gaming aspects of the previous games, has tons of loot and new ways of progressing your character. Also, enemy AI is rad. Encounters are with smaller 'more intelligent' groups of enemies rather than 200+ hordes of goblins. Flying creatures will circle around you and liches resurrect fallen enemies (pain in the ass!), that kind of thing.

Should you play X rather than IX? Dunno, haven't played 10, but from what I've don't necessarily feel the urge to do so.

- Digg

 

[Lady_Error]

Should you play X rather than IX?

That has to be a rhetorical question. X is the best blobber that came out in the last 10 years or so.

 

[Great Deceiver]

X is the best blobber that came out in the last 10 years or so.

While I enjoyed MMX a lot and played it to completion upon release, that statement is very questionable. I would say any number of blobbers out of Japan are superior if you can manage to get past the weeaboo aesthetic (granted, not everyone can); and, even if you can't, there's stuff like The Dark Spire. The main problem with X for me was the lack of agility in the gameplay, and the amount of gated content in the overworld, something that is uncharacteristic of MM in general

edit: well, I should qualify my opinion with the fact that blobbers out of Japan are strictly dungeon crawlers; so perhaps they're not all that similar to Might & Magic, where overworld exploration and puzzles are paramount; however, those elements are less significant in X than earlier releases.

 

[Lady_Error]

MMX is better than the Dark Spire in my opinion. And I don't know of any other blobber out of Japan that comes close in quality to the Dark Spire.

The gated content in MMX - yeah, that was not that great. But at least it has an actual (though not very big) overworld, while even the Dark Spire is "just" a dungeon crawler.

Even out next best hope regarding blobbers (Bard's Tale 4) will be a big dungeon crawler with no overworld.

 

[Luzur]

MMX is better than the Dark Spire in my opinion. And I don't know of any other blobber out of Japan that comes close in quality to the Dark Spire.

The gated content in MMX - yeah, that was not that great. But at least it has an actual (though not very big) overworld, while even the Dark Spire is "just" a dungeon crawler.

Even out next best hope regarding blobbers (Bard's Tale 4) will be a big dungeon crawler with no overworld.

What?!

 

[Lady_Error]

BT4 will have outside areas, but it won't be an open-world game.

 

[Why.jpeg]

How diffcult is the mainquest in MM6. Im level 20 but getting my ass thrashed with the lords quests. I doing something wrong or should I go do quests and dungeons?

 

[Monstrous Bat]

How diffcult is the mainquest in MM6. Im level 20 but getting my ass thrashed with the lords quests. I doing something wrong or should I go do quests and dungeons?

Well... You can beat the whole game without ever levelling if you cheese the fuck out of the system (and have a lot of patience), but if you play normally then the main quest is indeed pretty difficult. It's not too bad at the stage you're currently in (only 3 of the lord quests actually require you to fight anything at all, and only 2 of them are actually difficult). But you definitely want to do a bunch of side quests as you progress. MM6 is a big game, no need to rush it. And getting your ass trashed is part of MM6's fun, so don't worry too much about it.

 

[Why.jpeg]

How diffcult is the mainquest in MM6. Im level 20 but getting my ass thrashed with the lords quests. I doing something wrong or should I go do quests and dungeons?

Well... You can beat the whole game without ever levelling if you cheese the fuck out of the system (and have a lot of patience), but if you play normally then the main quest is indeed pretty difficult. It's not too bad at the stage you're currently in (only 3 of the lord quests actually require you to fight anything at all, and only 2 of them are actually difficult). But you definitely want to do a bunch of side quests as you progress. MM6 is a big game, no need to rush it. And getting your ass trashed is part of MM6's fun, so don't worry too much about it.

Ill just fuck around with side quests until I get bored and then I will do the mainquest. This game huge so I can take my time. One thing that I somewhat dislike are the herds of trash mobs. Please tell me that gets scaled back for other titles.

 

[octavius]

Ill just fuck around with side quests until I get bored and then I will do the mainquest. This game huge so I can take my time. One thing that I somewhat dislike are the herds of trash mobs. Please tell me that gets scaled back for other titles.

It does.
But in MM6 the herds of trash mobs respawn every 6 months of in-game time, so fucking around too long may not be a good idea.

 

[lorn]

Ill just fuck around with side quests until I get bored and then I will do the mainquest. This game huge so I can take my time. One thing that I somewhat dislike are the herds of trash mobs. Please tell me that gets scaled back for other titles.

It does.
But in MM6 the herds of trash mobs respawn every 6 months of in-game time, so fucking around too long may not be a good idea.

That's not entirely correct, the respawn time depends on the zone. For New Sorpigal (and i think darkmoor and mist) it's 6 months, but for most other zones and dungeons it's 2 years. For the final dungeon it's 7 days.

 

[kmonster]

It can be very satisfying to return after 6 months and wipe the floor with respawned mobs which caused you so much trouble the first time you were less experienced.

 

[catfood]

How diffcult is the mainquest in MM6. Im level 20 but getting my ass thrashed with the lords quests. I doing something wrong or should I go do quests and dungeons?

Well... You can beat the whole game without ever levelling if you cheese the fuck out of the system (and have a lot of patience), but if you play normally then the main quest is indeed pretty difficult. It's not too bad at the stage you're currently in (only 3 of the lord quests actually require you to fight anything at all, and only 2 of them are actually difficult). But you definitely want to do a bunch of side quests as you progress. MM6 is a big game, no need to rush it. And getting your ass trashed is part of MM6's fun, so don't worry too much about it.

Ill just fuck around with side quests until I get bored and then I will do the mainquest. This game huge so I can take my time. One thing that I somewhat dislike are the herds of trash mobs. Please tell me that gets scaled back for other titles.

I don't remember what level I was when I finished the game (probably around 50-60) but I do remember that I had like 100-200 unused skill points on every character. The game starts difficult but it gets very easy in the late game once you pick up ancient weapons.

 

[Monstrous Bat]

How diffcult is the mainquest in MM6. Im level 20 but getting my ass thrashed with the lords quests. I doing something wrong or should I go do quests and dungeons?

Well... You can beat the whole game without ever levelling if you cheese the fuck out of the system (and have a lot of patience), but if you play normally then the main quest is indeed pretty difficult. It's not too bad at the stage you're currently in (only 3 of the lord quests actually require you to fight anything at all, and only 2 of them are actually difficult). But you definitely want to do a bunch of side quests as you progress. MM6 is a big game, no need to rush it. And getting your ass trashed is part of MM6's fun, so don't worry too much about it.

Ill just fuck around with side quests until I get bored and then I will do the mainquest. This game huge so I can take my time. One thing that I somewhat dislike are the herds of trash mobs. Please tell me that gets scaled back for other titles.

The later games do have less trash mobs... But they actually take longer to kill as your party is generally weaker than in MM6.

Once you get some cash on your hands you can learn Meteor Shower and Starburst, which can wipe out outdoor mobs pretty quickly (though very costly SP-wise). Fireball and Dragon Breath can be used to deal with large mobs in dungeons.

 

[octavius]

Nothing like Meteor Shower + Flying and carpet bombing armies of enemies. :D
Sometimes it's just more fun to mow down legions of weak enemies than small groups of scaled enemies, and MM6 is amongst the few CRPGs that lets you indulge in such activities.

 

[Cyberarmy]

You can get meteor shower early with focusing on fire magic and save scumming before entering Fire/Elemantal Guild halls. That really helps a lot to clear some groups early for faster progress. Especially for the werewolf map.

 

[Luzur]

BT4 will have outside areas, but it won't be an open-world game.

Are they also doing that Grimrock shit?!

 

[Luzur]

Nothing like Meteor Shower + Flying and carpet bombing armies of enemies. :D
Sometimes it's just more fun to mow down legions of weak enemies than small groups of scaled enemies, and MM6 is amongst the few CRPGs that lets you indulge in such activities.

A favorite of mine is to equip all of my chars with fireball (staffs or magic) and do the same, seeing 6 fireballs hit hordes of mobs is like heaven.

 

[Lady_Error]

BT4 will have outside areas, but it won't be an open-world game.

Are they also doing that Grimrock shit?!

You have to be more specific than that. They won't do the RT combat, and they will fix other Grimrock shit like lack of NPC's and shops. However, despite having 30 maps, BT4 will still be basically a dungeon crawler.

 

[Luzur]

BT4 will have outside areas, but it won't be an open-world game.

Are they also doing that Grimrock shit?!

You have to be more specific than that. They won't do the RT combat, and they will fix other Grimrock shit like lack of NPC's and shops. However, despite having 30 maps, BT4 will still be basically a dungeon crawler.

no, i meant the "outside will just be quick stops from the endless dungeon" spiel

 

[Why.jpeg]

I just bought flight, town portal, flying fist and fire AoE spells last play session and my party feels significantly more powerful. I started to cackle wildly as I rained flame from the heavens upon helpless mobs. Im going to keep focusing on leveling up a few skills and once Ive exhausted the quests in the areas Ive explored Ill jump back into advancing the mainquest. Definitely need to diversify my damage dealing, my clerics are borderline useless offensive magic wise against undead.

 

[SkeleTony]

With grayface mm6 patch and optimized builds & henchmen (focusing instead of spreading the points around; using a healer for melee or +7 magic skills for casters) you can easily go through the 6 in, like, 50-60 hours. For an RPG, that's rather average, I think.

The real problem with 7 is that while seemingly its systems were optimised, in practice they got rather broken. Whereas in VI all the classes were useful (even the knights - dunno why people complain about them, 2x knights with 25+ bodybuilding and shared life solve all your healing needs nicely and you can totally punch off the dragons' ugly mugs),

You can game around almost any broken feature in most CRPGs but I much prefered VII's character builds to those of VI. adding the few nonhuman races to the mix greatly improved on things for me, not to mention a few new classes to explore and so forth.

in VII we have three absolute suckers (ranger-rogue-druid)...

Welcome to CRPGs. Same has been claimed for VI as well so I guess it depends on one's personal playing experience. Most of us don't really have it in us to process all the information in such a way as to easily discern such minor balance issues. I can beat VII with a party of only Knights or Rogues or Clerics or what have you if I feel like doing so (but this is not in accordance with my play style). Also you are kind of wrong here anyway as Druids are the only class who can Grandmaster Alchemy to make some of the best potions and Rogues and Rangers can be used effectively, lacking little in comparison with other classes, but again...that's just me. I played M&M VI when it first came out and got bored with it. VII is a regular replay for me because of all that it did MUCH better than VI.

and hybrid classes (paladin & archer) being degraded into one-trick ponies. Sure, their perma-bash & bow limit break capabilities might be interesting to explore, but that's that. Most of the other grandmasters are actually rather boring, giving just plain increase to some fighting capacity.

They add a LOT to the game. Doing their quests are usually a lot of fun and challenging enough for most of us and the game really needed that extra skill rank.

And in terms of casting it got way too safe & stale. Whereas in VI dark & light were balanced by huge MP costs, universal resistances & sometimes wonky effects (which applied to all magical schools, though), in VII dark path makes all other schools obsolete and light, while not so cool offensively, still makes the game stupidly easy via god mode on (divine interventions anytime, anywhere, en masse).

WTF is "God mode" and why would someone play with that on?! First time I beat VII it was with an 'evil' party (dark interface FTW!) and it was fun. Next time was with a 'good' party and it was just as much fun. Then again I was never much for figuring out power-gamer stuff to great degree and I think it is a small minority who play the way you are able to it seems (being able to discern easily all that you have discerned about the balance and such.

Not to mention that stuff like Protection from Magic really takes the edge out of the game (which is a rather unpopular opinion, unfortunately).

The game lost a lot of subtleties too. Different shops opening & closing at different times, some useless henchmen that can still give you rumors or flavor, money becoming useless (in VI there was a crude yet efficient economy), etc. The world is also not brutal enough - in VI, half of the map was filled with really nasty areas. In VII, most of the map are just safe low-level encounters. Metagaming also got more boring, tbh - none of the explosive Gate Master starts.

I'm not saying that VII is bad as the overall formula is still decent, but it's not as good as the VI.

Disagree with all of this^. I could not care less about shop times being more realistic (for lack of a better word) and I always found uses for money in VII. I like everything about VII over VI from map designs to character development.