Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Miner 2049er]

Okay. Cool. Thank you. I guess I'm having enough information, now I have to decide.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Sacred82]

I'm about to start my 2nd M&MX run and I can't decide who's going to be the 4th character.

There's just no way around a Bladedancer and a Rune Priest. 3rd one this time is a Druid.

Now for the 4th spot I can't decide between:

- Scout / Dual Wield Master / Axe GM
- Barb / Spear GM / Two Handed GM
- Barb / Axe M / Dual Wield M
- Hunter / Spear GM / Two Handed GM

Help ?

Since you're apparently going for melee with magic support, I'd go for the Hunter, who is as good as the Blade Dancer at dodging. You already have two squishies in the party, so I guess you'll be hiding behind Celestial Armour a lot. Swings that are evaded by Dodge don't count against the damage threshold of Celestial Armour. I'm seeing on my current playthrough how cool it is to combine the two, makes the spell so much better. It just doesn't mitigate enough damage if everyone is getting hit. The Druid is also good at dodging so you're set. This lightly armoured party doesn't want to advance on archers either I'd say, so the Hunter's promotion ability should come in handy.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Haplo]

Warfare 2H Mercanary ? What does he have over a Barb ? I don't have the game running, so I'm guessing he can grandmaster warfare.

Yes he can. But also auto-crits and ignores block/evade on healthy enemy. Give him a mace and he'll auto-stun enemies. He doesn't even need any Perception.
Also Windwalker mobility ability is very useful in some situations.

 

[Miner 2049er]

I finally decided on:

- hunter (spear)
- scout (melee / strenght build / dual wield master / axe gm); I'm curious how he's going to turn out
- druid
- runepriest

I already took this party to the end of the elemental forge (earth guardian) and i must say it's a much smoother sailing compared to my first party run (crusader/bladedancer/freemage/runepriest). The bosses of the lighttower and the thieves went down on the first try.

As much as I love VI,VII,VIII and even IX, the movement and combat systems of Legacy makes it the most enjoyable M&M for me. I know the older titles do have these features as well, but there's only so much a graphic and ui whore like me can take.

Regarding the freemage: As I'm seeing it, the only thing he has speking for him is dark magic. For whispering shadows one can buy the single use scrolls or recruit the dog and the other quite important spell is that dark magic resistance spell that comes in handy for the tomb of 1000 terrors. So he's not worth taking (imo). There may be party line-ups where he's making sense though.

Edit: @ lukaszek: I made the runepriest a magic focus expert. Why did you gave him a mace and a shield ?
And should my druid become a foci user too ?

 

[Sacred82]

Warfare 2H Mercanary ? What does he have over a Barb ? I don't have the game running, so I'm guessing he can grandmaster warfare.

Yes he can. But also auto-crits and ignores block/evade on healthy enemy. Give him a mace and he'll auto-stun enemies. He doesn't even need any Perception.
Also Windwalker mobility ability is very useful in some situations.

someone on the official forums claims that Perfect Strike is bugged and doesn't work. He's made a patch, but that also seems to include other things that I don't want in my game. Why the fuck can't people offer bug fixes without forcing their subjective changes on me? Gives me a fit of entitlement.

Miner 2049er since you're going for a spear wielder, you might want to check out this thread. There's a bug that affects two-handed weapons that can be easily fixed.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Haplo]

Warfare 2H Mercanary ? What does he have over a Barb ? I don't have the game running, so I'm guessing he can grandmaster warfare.

Yes he can. But also auto-crits and ignores block/evade on healthy enemy. Give him a mace and he'll auto-stun enemies. He doesn't even need any Perception.
Also Windwalker mobility ability is very useful in some situations.

someone on the official forums claims that Perfect Strike is bugged and doesn't work. He's made a patch, but that also seems to include other things that I don't want in my game. Why the fuck can't people offer bug fixes without forcing their subjective changes on me? Gives me a fit of entitlement.

Miner 2049er since you're going for a spear wielder, you might want to check out this thread. There's a bug that affects two-handed weapons that can be easily fixed.

I remember Perfect Strike did work for me. I don't remember what I installed though.
Anyway I was VERY happy with my Merc/Windwalker. Many people fail to see beyond the cookie cutter builds like Bladedancer, while M&M X offers A LOT more.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Sacred82]

I remember Perfect Strike did work for me. I don't remember what I installed though.
Anyway I was VERY happy with my Merc/Windwalker. Many people fail to see beyond the cookie cutter builds like Bladedancer, while M&M X offers A LOT more.

even if it should be bugged, I'm a fan of the Merc. The fact that two-handed swords have great stats and can't be used by anyone else make him even better.

I've been toying around with this idea for a party. It would have a Defender, who's basically just a fire caster in heavy armor. That means pumping Magic and Spirit and occasionally Might, and just dropping some Vitality enhancing potions and equipment on him. I'd only raise Warfare up to Expert so he can get past enemy blocks. Second slot would be a Merc, who would be the one with the actual Warfare skills. I'd raise Might almost exclusively and give him two-handed swords to capitalize on that. Third slot would be a Druid with a spear for blocking. The idea here is to just use heavy armor, Stoneskin and water magic to reduce incoming damage, not bothering with dodging or light magic at all. I can't decide on the fourth character though. A Hunter could be nice, to drag things into melee range. Or mabye a Blade Dancer with dual swords. In that case I'd give the Merc a two-handed axe or mace, since good swords are expensive. The Merc's guaranteed critical from GM Warfare should be nice on an axe.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Haplo]

so I gave it a little more thought...

I really dont like rune priest for his limited defenses. Ive figured that shaman with spear would be better in his spot with his expert 2hf, spear(or staff) and master dodge.
I did a bit more reading and membrane spell seem to have invalid tooltip and it gives in fact insane dmg reduction if you push for grandmastery. Water magic also provides attacks reduction which got nice synergy with my dodge party.

As such id push for gm in water,eart,primordial. M in light. Expert wind and fire.

Well, but a Rune Priest is really a nuke powerhouse. Cleans house like noone. His promotion skill is OP.

But sure, Water spells are good. Membrane is borderline cheating.

 

[Sacred82]

It would have a Defender, who's basically just a fire caster in heavy armor

only expert...

not that it matters. Burning Determination is really the reason why you always want a fire caster, everything else is just cherries on top. Spells scale with Magic score so it's not like they're getting obsolete.

The traditional non-magic build of the Defender is a waste of a slot, he's never gonna do much damage with his one axe, no matter if you use the insta-critical Warfare skill. He'll already be doing much more damage to a group of enemies if he's fireballing them even just on Expert level. I guess this party is going the melee heavy route, so having a Defender stick in there who's very durable, provides the party with a spell it absolutely needs, and eventually defends everyone with his shield is a done deal.

Granted, he's really in there because he fits with the party concept, not because he's an especially powerful character. But a gimp, no.

 

[Black]

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Great Deceiver]

That Winds of War intro "animation" (if you can even call it that) had me laughing from day one. I still keel over in tears whenever I see it again.

 

[ilitarist]

The first expansion was shit too.

I was a teenager when I played it though I clearly remember being disappointed. Starting with Heroes 3 expansions there were cool stories there. Heroes 4 original campaigns threw novels at you, specifically Half-Dead guy story and Elven Romeo and Juilet. Come the first expansion. THE EVIL WIZARD wants to ENSLAVE THE WORLD. Only our FIVE BRAVE HEROES care and they have to gather POWERFUL ARTIFACTS to beat the EVIL WIZARD. I expected there to be some subversions but apart from those guys being in interesting classes there was nothing interesting at all.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Asier]

It appears that the World of Xeen port in ScummVM is going well and Clouds of Xeen is yet completable and apparently bug free, but Dark side is being tested.

 

[Sceptic]

Before I start, can anyone explain to me how dual wielding works with grey face patch if both weapons are of same type?

I don't remember dual wielding being buggy or broken in the original game, did Greyface change the behaviour? do you see any mention in the patch notes?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[fantadomat]

Before I start, can anyone explain to me how dual wielding works with grey face patch if both weapons are of same type?

I don't remember dual wielding being buggy or broken in the original game, did Greyface change the behaviour? do you see any mention in the patch notes?

its not about being broken, I just dont understand the mechanics.
For example if I dual wield daggers, one is 2d3+20, another is 2d2+1.
I have 10 skill in daggers.

What is my base dmg, dmg bonus and to hit?
My understanding is that since both are daggers, main hand will be used for dmg and hit mods. As such I will have +30 to hit and damage?
Still... what is actual base dmg?

Don't know the exact mechanics but the dual wielding was doing pretty good damage. Two GM swords was doing a lot of damage. I used it mainly for the different effects on the artefacts. Daggers don't have good artefacts from what i remember. Only decent one was the Foulfang and for him you had to finish the obelisk puzzle.
Anyway this could be interesting read:
https://www.celestialheavens.com/forum/10/14684

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

I'm starting MM7, for the second time. Last time I dropped the game when my party was turned to stone shortly after visiting the dwarves and venturing into some caves.

Help me out. Is this party going to survive? What should be adjusted and why?