Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[lukaszek]

anyone used MMExtension? Tried to kickstart by quickly skimming over https://grayface.github.io/mm/ext/ref/ but its not hello world sort of thing I expected. Standard tables in Events.lod MMArchive do not contain mappings I seek so I expect I ned to use extansion somehow. Thing is I dont want to go through whole lua learning, can someone give me some quickstart?
I expect that what I need to change is simple just uncovering it apparently isnt

What are you trying to do exactly?
Chances are, it's already been done...

probably was heh

Indeed I found some people sharing tables of their rebalanced classes but I still lack the link of how to apply them properly(or make my own).

as stated few posts above, I want to grant warlocks access to gm magic

 

[Darth Canoli]

as stated few posts above, I want to grant warlocks access to gm magic

I'm pretty sure you can do that with a savegame editor or a cheat engine table.
Editing classes on your own is way harder.

Most "rebalanced" mods for M&M 7-8 are garbage, nobody thought about unlocking most physical skills for martial classes and most magic skills for magic users... Instead, they make their own lame mix which are just as bad as the originals.

 

[Storyfag]

Leaving is cheating? Man, I swear in old rpg manuals they often say retreat and rest before you go too deep and are overcome. But I'm thinking of older MM, Bardstale, Ultima, Wizardry perhaps.

Not at all limited to older games. In fact NPCs in MM6 starting town will tell you that retreating is completely viable.

 

[Mauman]

as stated few posts above, I want to grant warlocks access to gm magic

It's actually fairly easy to do this with no outside help (and it's something I do all the time because it's complete horseshit they don't have it to begin with). All you need is a text editor

You want to look up gamefolder\data\tables\class skills.txt

From there it should be self-explanatory what you need to do. There will be some issues with the text file's spacing but it can be figured out with a little patience and some counting.

 

[T. Reich]

i want to do another mm7 run, never did caster party. Want to go with sssd. Im prepared to just go at it but perhaps someone can tell me how I can allow warlocks grand master all the magic that they have access to? If I cheated that way I would consider going ssdd. Yes yes, i know that shrapmetal goes brrr, but I prefer to clear my dungeons without 'cheating' by casting beacon or leaving dungeon mid way - clear without resting, accept the danger of resting inside or no go.

Uhh, why would you pick the strongest m&m6-7 party compo and then want to cheat by overpowering your druid further?
sssd will clear out the absolute fuck out of everything with sparks in melee range and fireballs at distance, both spells being insanely mana-cost-effective if used correctly. And all that without having to resort to beacon temple jumping.
In fact, going light is stronger than going dake here - you already have all the magical offensive power you need, and light gives you the insane defense that your spellcasters normally lack. And divine intervention.

 

[Cryomancer]

Only I don't get how M&M X has 10% of votes? I played 4/5/6/7/8 and even a bit of 9 but could't stand 10 - legacy...

 

[lukaszek]

as stated few posts above, I want to grant warlocks access to gm magic

It's actually fairly easy to do this with no outside help (and it's something I do all the time because it's complete horseshit they don't have it to begin with). All you need is a text editor

You want to look up gamefolder\data\tables\class skills.txt

From there it should be self-explanatory what you need to do. There will be some issues with the text file's spacing but it can be figured out with a little patience and some counting.

thats what i red, but in my gog copy there is no data/tables folder

Uhh, why would you pick the strongest m&m6-7 party compo and then want to cheat by overpowering your druid further?

so I can consider going dddd for that dragon action

 

[Mauman]

thats what i red, but in my gog copy there is no data/tables folder

Install the GrayFace mm7 patch first. It should show up then.

You want to do that anyways just so the game doesn't run like ass on newer systems and you have access to wondrous things like decent mouse look, looping music (mm7 has a kickass ost), and more

https://grayface.github.io/mm/#GrayFace-MM7-Patch

edit - I'm fairly certain this the most recent patch, but since I've switched to exclusively playing merge (which uses mm8 stuff) if I want to play mm 6/7/8 I'm not 100% certain. Look at the CelestialHeavens forums for more info.

2nd edit - I seem to recall you'll also need to run the game once after installing the patch for everything to show up.

 

[lukaszek]

thats what i red, but in my gog copy there is no data/tables folder

Install the GrayFace mm7 patch first. It should show up then.

You want to do that anyways just so the game doesn't run like ass on newer systems and you have access to wondrous things like decent mouse look, looping music (mm7 has a kickass ost), and more

https://grayface.github.io/mm/#GrayFace-MM7-Patch

edit - I'm fairly certain this the most recent patch, but since I've switched to exclusively playing merge (which uses mm8 stuff) if I want to play mm 6/7/8 I'm not 100% certain. Look at the CelestialHeavens forums for more info.

2nd edit - I seem to recall you'll also need to run the game once after installing the patch for everything to show up.

got grayface, otherwise i wouldnt be able to enjoy that mouse look. Did start a new game and so on already. Checked lod files present and no table there got class config

 

[Mauman]

thats what i red, but in my gog copy there is no data/tables folder

Install the GrayFace mm7 patch first. It should show up then.

You want to do that anyways just so the game doesn't run like ass on newer systems and you have access to wondrous things like decent mouse look, looping music (mm7 has a kickass ost), and more

https://grayface.github.io/mm/#GrayFace-MM7-Patch

edit - I'm fairly certain this the most recent patch, but since I've switched to exclusively playing merge (which uses mm8 stuff) if I want to play mm 6/7/8 I'm not 100% certain. Look at the CelestialHeavens forums for more info.

2nd edit - I seem to recall you'll also need to run the game once after installing the patch for everything to show up.

got grayface, otherwise i wouldnt be able to enjoy that mouse look. Did start a new game and so on already. Checked lod files present and no table there got class config

That's weird :/

Well, I hope you figure it out.

 

[jackofshadows]

Only I don't get how M&M X has 10% of votes? I played 4/5/6/7/8 and even a bit of 9 but could't stand 10 - legacy...

Apparently because you're autistic? It has a bit different design here and there and suffers from budget restraints but that's all. A decent game at the very least. Plenty of set-ups to try out, for you I'd recommend all casters obviously.

 

[Storyfag]

sssd will clear out the absolute fuck out of everything with sparks in melee range and fireballs at distance, both spells being insanely mana-cost-effective if used correctly.

Why do people *always* dismiss the issue of damage-time-effectiveness? This is arguably much more important than mana-cost-effectiveness, especially if facing hard-hitting opponents who you want to dispose of ASAP. In those cases Shrapmetal is love, Shrapmetal is life.

In fact, going light is stronger than going dake here - you already have all the magical offensive power you need, and light gives you the insane defense that your spellcasters normally lack.

Well, fair enough. But the light path is ewww.

 

[lukaszek]

Why do people *always* dismiss the issue of damage-time-effectiveness? This is arguably much more important than mana-cost-effectiveness, especially if facing hard-hitting opponents who you want to dispose of ASAP. In those cases Shrapmetal is love, Shrapmetal is life.

because that was never the issue? Find nice choke point and defend your position.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Only I don't get how M&M X has 10% of votes? I played 4/5/6/7/8 and even a bit of 9 but could't stand 10 - legacy...

probably to protest the lack of the true best M&M game: Dark Messiah

 

[Cryomancer]

A decent game at the very least. Plenty of set-ups to try out, for you I'd recommend all casters obviously.

I found the game too linear, low lethality and honestly din't liked. TBH M&M IX seems a better game. My favorite is 6.

 

[jackofshadows]

I found the game too linear, low lethality and honestly din't liked. TBH M&M IX seems a better game. My favorite is 6.

Ok what's up with low lethality complain? I get that when you shoot someone in the face with .50 round and he lose like 1/3 hp because we have a repegee here buddy but we have a light-hearted fantasy here. Would you really prefer if all the mobs die almost instantly? We have mm6 for that kind of fun indeed but here devs were trying to add a little tactical layer to it with mixed success (the whole idea of aggro stuff is stupid they should've went with formations or discard it all together) and having boss fights from the start is refreshing. Later on if your builds are efficient you'll be shredding to pieces everything anyway. Which kinda tells that you either come up with a bad set-up or didn't finish the game at all.

Same for linear - it opens up later on, that's all. A small game, not linear.

I don't disregard IX and was surprised that it isn't even closely as shitty as pretty much everyone was saying but couldn't tell with a straight face that it's better than X as a whole.

 

[Cryomancer]

Would you really prefer if all the mobs die almost instantly?

I prefer if a master of fire magic throwing a meteor rain into a bunch of goblins will gonna kill that goblins and if a devil with mastery over fire magic could do the same with my party.

Dragon's Dogma, I love that game in HARD mode exactly cuz I need to be cautious as even at relative high level, a freaking dragon can OHK me.

 

[jackofshadows]

prefer if a master of fire magic throwing a meteor rain into a bunch of goblins will gonna kill that goblins and if a devil with mastery over fire magic could do the same with my party.

Well, mmx has plenty of that. Max out focus for casters and they'll obliterate any given number of goblins in 1 go and some bosses are able to easily one-shot your party as well. You must have some strange prejudice towards mmx based on something else.

 

[T. Reich]

sssd will clear out the absolute fuck out of everything with sparks in melee range and fireballs at distance, both spells being insanely mana-cost-effective if used correctly.

Why do people *always* dismiss the issue of damage-time-effectiveness? This is arguably much more important than mana-cost-effectiveness, especially if facing hard-hitting opponents who you want to dispose of ASAP. In those cases Shrapmetal is love, Shrapmetal is life.

In fact, going light is stronger than going dake here - you already have all the magical offensive power you need, and light gives you the insane defense that your spellcasters normally lack.

Well, fair enough. But the light path is ewww.

May I introduce you to the concept of recovery time?
Which sparks, being a low-level spell, has very, VERY little of.
Then there's such thing as hit recovery, which enemies also have.
When you combine very fast spell with a lot of projectiles that deal tons of damage, from at least 3 casters, on auto cast, what you get is near-perma-stunned mobs (the ones that survive for longer than a second, anyway).

 

[T. Reich]

Would you really prefer if all the mobs die almost instantly?

I prefer if a master of fire magic throwing a meteor rain into a bunch of goblins will gonna kill that goblins and if a devil with mastery over fire magic could do the same with my party.

Dragon's Dogma, I love that game in HARD mode exactly cuz I need to be cautious as even at relative high level, a freaking dragon can OHK me.

What you described, M&M never had - the series' combat has always been about battle of attrition agains overwhelming number of enemies more than enything else.
None of that "die or be killed" stuff. In M&M, if your party can't take the beating, you're in the wrong neighbourhood.

 

[Cryomancer]

combat has always been about battle of attrition agains overwhelming number of enemies more than enything else.

Wrong. I can 2HK TITANS in M&M VI with sharpmetal. And OHK enemies with low MAG resist with finger of death.

You fight lots of enemies, but they die relative quickly.

 

[lukaszek]

Well, I hope you figure it out.

Ive gotten help on discord. Turns up installing MMExt is about dropping its contents into game directory, which wasnt clear to me at all(after all its 2 new folders without extra hooks).
Starting game with it triggers lua scripts which spawn those tables. Then you can edit them and MMArchive wasnt required at all(for what I needed). Tested quickly by creating op party of druids with stealing skill


Now I... dont know what I want to play

 

[T. Reich]

combat has always been about battle of attrition agains overwhelming number of enemies more than enything else.

Wrong. I can 2HK TITANS in M&M VI with sharpmetal. And OHK enemies with low MAG resist with finger of death.

You fight lots of enemies, but they die relative quickly.

WOW, THAT'S COOL!

...At what stage of the game would that be? When would one enjoy such unlimited power?
Also, how many times can you finger your enemies before you're out of juice?
How do you finger enemies with a knight or a hybrid class?

Please, do enlighten us!

P.S.: Did you play an other games in the series?

 

[Mauman]

Well, I hope you figure it out.

Ive gotten help on discord. Turns up installing MMExt is about dropping its contents into game directory, which wasnt clear to me at all(after all its 2 new folders without extra hooks).
Starting game with it triggers lua scripts which spawn those tables. Then you can edit them and MMArchive wasnt required at all(for what I needed). Tested quickly by creating op party of druids with stealing skill


Now I... dont know what I want to play

I'm glad to hear that.

Besides giving elemental/clerical GM to druids (which I consider balanced just because how damn powerful Light/Dark is), I also give Rangers Master level spells and paladins/archers access to master light/dark.

I'd still consider a knight/monk better for physical or a (modded) druid/sorc/cleric better for magic, but at least I don't feel like I'm seriously gimping myself using hybrid classes. (especially Ranger)

 

[Cryomancer]

P.S.: Did you play an other games in the series?

Yes, played 4/5/6/7/8 and a bit of 9/10.

In 4/5, due the gem requirement, I played only with a single sorcerer in my party.

knight or a hybrid class?

Knight is not a good offensive class, but is a good defensive class. As for hybrid classes, except by druid, all are really weak IMO.