Anime The mistake a lot of modern boomer shooters make

[Lyric Suite]

No it fucking doesn't. The colors are animu are you fucking blind?

It's that diginal mobile pastel look that has infected all games and ruined most of them. Compare Stormgate to original Starcradt. Original Starcraft was colorful too, but surely you can see they are not the same?

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Space Hulk: Deathwing may have not been the greatest but damn if they didn't nail the atmosphere.

That game oozes 40K, also love the luggish terminator movement and aim, too bad about the horde gameplay that just wasn't done well. Streumon are truly the kings of gaming blueballs (E.Y.E. is fantastic as is imo but just imagine.....it could have been a fullblown Deus Ex revival....it's all right there ).

You play Fire Warrior?

 

[Lyric Suite]

Fire Warriror. I remember spending an entire afternoon try to make that game run on modern Windows. I even managed to fix widescreen with proper UI scaling. Was so proud of myself than i tried playing the game lmao.

 

[Ash]

Spoiler

Chainsaw swords, badass helmets, chunky guns = cool.

Uniform distribution of bright colors, mid-effort detail, omega symbols and other lame insignias, disproportionate/oversized pauldrons and such = GAY.

Terrible waste but easy to ignore when there was endless cooler content to consume back then.

 

[Hell Swarm]

No it fucking doesn't. The colors are animu are you fucking blind?

It's that diginal mobile pastel look that has infected all games and ruined most of them. Compare Stormgate to original Starcradt. Original Starcraft was colorful too, but surely you can see they are not the same?

Exact same colour scheme. Even has one with a visor.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

3rd edition is when 40k loses all it's colour.

Bullshit. You ever opened one of those? They are full of cool gothic black and white pieces. Point being 40K did both very well, clear expressive colour pieces and messy murky black/white space-gothic stuff. Don't pretend it was one and then the other.
Then it got homogenized into what GW shits out today.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Uniform distribution of bright colors, mid-effort detail, omega symbols and other lame insignias, disproportionate/oversized pauldrons and such = GAY.

I'm pretty sure the uniform color is there because that's supposed to be a medieval armor except in space.

Oversized or disproportionate body portions was probably there just because it made it easier to paint the minature. Giant pauldrons in particular were likely made like that so people could more easily paint an insigna in them.

 

[Ash]

Don't care the reason, no matter how sensible. It's lame and off-putting, unlike the endless space marine/cyberpunk criminal hacker/steroid-laden commando/ninja shadow killer manly alternatives back then.

Sad that's all ancient history now. Can't even think of ANY modern media with cool masculine badass character designs. Key word being "cool". That's also a mistake a lot of modern "boomer shooters" make.

 

[Hell Swarm]

3rd edition is when 40k loses all it's colour.

Bullshit. You ever opened one of those? They are full of cool gothic black and white pieces. Point being 40K did both very well, clear expressive colour pieces and messy murky black/white space-gothic stuff. Don't pretend it was one and then the other.
Then it got homogenized into what GW shits out today.

Most of that artwork comes from 2nd ed where they would ask their local friends to draw stuff for white dwarf and repurposed it into rulebook art work. It's 3rd edition 40k where it goes from a small indie company to a global brand with on staff artists and a design bible.

 

[JoacoN]

Talking about boomer shooters, I think that something that still needs to need to be expanded or evolved is the hub based / small open world style.
There's still a lot of things you could do it with it, from making something more metroidvania like, to a heavier focus in platforming or puzzle solving, to having a huge focus on verticality and exploring tall buildings.
Im trying to do something like that with my game, but the focus is more so in pure exploration and quest solving rather than combat, your gun is more like a tool a lot of the time.

 

[Hell Swarm]

heavier focus in platforming

As much as I would enjoy a FPS platformer most people don't have the spacial awareness for it. There's a reason they removed jumping sections from basically every FPS now.

 

[JoacoN]

heavier focus in platforming

As much as I would enjoy a FPS platformer most people don't have the spacial awareness for it. There's a reason they removed jumping sections from basically every FPS now.

Ye that sucks, I always like platforming sections in fps games because they allow to control the pacing better by creating breaks between combat and also offer more verticality in the level design.

 

[Hell Swarm]

heavier focus in platforming

As much as I would enjoy a FPS platformer most people don't have the spacial awareness for it. There's a reason they removed jumping sections from basically every FPS now.

Ye that sucks, I always like platforming sections in fps games because they allow to control the pacing better by creating breaks between combat and also offer more verticality in the level design.

They're good when they have the freedom. Doom Eternal's jumping sucked dick.

 

[Harthwain]

heavier focus in platforming

As much as I would enjoy a FPS platformer most people don't have the spacial awareness for it. There's a reason they removed jumping sections from basically every FPS now.

Ye that sucks, I always like platforming sections in fps games because they allow to control the pacing better by creating breaks between combat and also offer more verticality in the level design.

I never liked jumping in games (outside of pure platformers, such as Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver series, Assassins' Creed games and Remnant 2).

 

[Ash]

I never liked jumping in games (outside of pure platformers, such as Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver series, Assassins' Creed games and Remnant 2).

None of those are pure platformers lol. They're action-adventure. And calling Assassin's Creed's automated shite "platforming" is a massive stretch. Soul Reaver is mid. No wonder you don't appreciate platforming lol.

Platforming is an absolute must for true 3D level design, as well as combat depth. Very, very few action games fare well in its absence unless they heavily compensate in other regards, e.g Survival Horrors lean into puzzles, resource & inventory management, among other things. The removal of platforming in action games post-decline is probably the number 1 measurably obvious decline. No longer can you jump over walls and other obstacles. No longer must you watch your footing during combat. No longer can secret areas be creatively hidden. No longer is there any airborne combat (e.g jump over melee enemies or low elevation projectiles). No longer is there complex verticality (AKA the third dimension) in level design and gameplay. Just massive decline.

So is it you don't like any jumping whatsoever, or is it you don't like gauntlets of jumping challenges you may have encountered in the past, like those in Half-Life? It's probably the latter, and that would be especially understandable as a lot of it is quite shite. Quicksaving combined with instant death pitfalls with horrible ice skate imprecise movement physics at the core of it. Not to mention limited air control. I still enjoy it as they have cool setups and add meaningful variety, but they're not exactly the epitome of fun nor platforming excellence. That would have to go to Mario Bros 3 (1989) & Dying Light (2015) for 2D and 3D respectively.

 

[Kabas]

Platforming is an absolute must for true 3D level design, as well as combat depth. Very, very few action games fare well in its absence unless they heavily compensate in other regards, e.g Survival Horrors lean into puzzles, resource & inventory management, among other things. The removal of platforming in action games post-decline is probably the number 1 measurably obvious decline. No longer can you jump over walls and other obstacles. No longer must you watch your footing during combat. No longer can secret areas be creatively hidden. No longer is there any airborne combat (e.g jump over melee enemies or low elevation projectiles). No longer is there complex verticality in level design. Just massive decline.

I am suddenly reminded of the force jump from Dark Forces 2. Literally the best force power you could level up due to how many places and alternative routes it opens up to you.

 

[NecroLord]

Platforming is an absolute must for true 3D level design, as well as combat depth. Very, very few action games fare well in its absence unless they heavily compensate in other regards, e.g Survival Horrors lean into puzzles, resource & inventory management, among other things. The removal of platforming in action games post-decline is probably the number 1 measurably obvious decline. No longer can you jump over walls and other obstacles. No longer must you watch your footing during combat. No longer can secret areas be creatively hidden. No longer is there any airborne combat (e.g jump over melee enemies or low elevation projectiles). No longer is there complex verticality in level design. Just massive decline.

I am suddenly reminded of the force jump from Dark Forces 2. Literally the best force power you could level up due to how many places and alternative routes it opens up to you.

Yeah.
I always have 3 force points put into it.

 

[Harthwain]

None of those are pure platformers lol. They're action-adventure. And calling Assassin's Creed's automated shite "platforming" is a massive stretch. Soul Reaver is mid. No wonder you don't appreciate platforming lol.

To clarify: I consider Soul Reaver series specifically to be heavy on platforming. The rest (Assassin's Creed and Remnant 2) I mentioned as "games in which I don't mind jumping, because it is done effortlessly". I probably should've written that better though.

So is it you don't like any jumping whatsoever, or is it you don't like gauntlets of jumping challenges you may have encountered in the past, like those in Half-Life? It's probably the latter, and that would be especially understandable as a lot of it is quite shite. Quicksaving combined with instant death pitfalls with horrible ice skate imprecise movement physics at the core of it. Not to mention limited air control.

Gauntlets of jumping challenges is the main reason. Especially when you don't feel like you have a good control over your character (as you said) or/and when I can't tell if I can make the jump in the first place.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Steam has an FPS sale on this week.

 

[JoacoN]

Gauntlets of jumping challenges is the main reason. Especially when you don't feel like you have a good control over your character (as you said) or/and when I can't tell if I can make the jump in the first place.

I think that's mostly because a lot of FPS games have problems with making good movement systems in the first place, they only think about "make movement for the player to shoot and dodge bullets, and also make it realistic", but don't think about exploration, searching for secrets, platforming, clever usage of movement to get an advantage over your enemies, solving puzzles, etc...

There's a reason why so many FPS games use doom and quake as a base, they are games that not only have great shooting, but also awesome movement systems which can be used for dozens of situations with wildly different level designs and still work without issue.

Meanwhile you take a Call of Duty or another "realistic" shooter game and suddenly the level design becomes incredibly limiting because the movement systems aren't made to be flexible and fit different situations, they are just made for shooting and moving between cover, so trying to add platforming sections (if they even let you jump more than 20cm.) is almost impossible without it feeling sluggish.

This issue can also happen with certain action games that try to be more grounded (like Dark Souls 1), were the platforming feels awful because it's all automated and doesn't react half the time, and still being limited even if it's automated because the devs know that watching your character doing the action of jumping isn't nowhere near fun as letting the players do it themselves.