The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[Martyr]

Painkiller was fun, Serious Sam 1 was pretty mediocre.

For me, it was the opposite. I loved the first 2 Serious Sam games. They were some of the best pure shooters I've ever played. On the other hand, I found Painkiller too repetitive due to the lack of variety in the enemies.

really? I found Serious Sam's enemy variety pretty lacking. in Painkiller you've got different enemies for differently themed levels: e.g. undead in graveyard, witches in old village, soldiers in WW1, electrocuted inmates in asylum etc. but those screaming headless bombers exist throughout the whole Serious Sam franchise in pretty much every single level. and the setting is much too bright and humorous for my liking. Painkiller's dark, sort of gothic atmosphere/vibes are much more to my liking.
but I've pretty fond memories of Serious Sam 2, so maybe it's time to replay that one.


concerning Doom 2016: it's pretty good for what it is. it'll never dethrone my beloved Doom 2/ Wolf 3D/ Catacomb 3D but it's fun.
just like Witcher 3. it's highly enjoyable and fun (except for the tons of cutscenes) but it won't ever surpass Arcanum/ Darklands/ Ultima Underworld.

 

[Durandal]

really? I found Serious Sam's enemy variety pretty lacking. in Painkiller you've got different enemies for differently themed levels: e.g. undead in graveyard, witches in old village, soldiers in WW1, electrocuted inmates in asylum etc. but those screaming headless bombers exist throughout the whole Serious Sam franchise in pretty much every single level. and the setting is much too bright and humorous for my liking. Painkiller's dark, sort of gothic atmosphere/vibes are much more to my liking.

visually, yes
gameplay-wise, lol

Completely flushing your enemy cast for every single episode is a terrible habit. Potentially interesting enemies get never seen again, interesting combinations of enemies in different episodes are made less possible, and for existing enemies to appear again in the newer episodes they'd have to be reskinned and passed off as a 'new' enemy with maybe boosted stats, instead of maintaining a consistent and memorable cast of enemies.

It didn't help that the roles every enemy in Painkiller covered is barely half as large as the ones in Serious Sam. There's way too many blind rushers, hitscanning assholes, and straightforward projectile-throwing enemies of the most basic kind without even significant variance in health, speed, etc. to make them stand out more in combat. Actually, target prioritization in Painkiller is non-existent because most of the time you're fighting two different enemy types max anyways. There's not much to prioritize to begin with. Which maybe would not have been the case if the enemy cast didn't keep getting flushed every handful of levels.

 

[JDR13]

It didn't help that the roles every enemy in Painkiller covered is barely half as large as the ones in Serious Sam. There's way too many blind rushers, hitscanning assholes, and straightforward projectile-throwing enemies of the most basic kind without even significant variance in health, speed, etc. to make them stand out more in combat. Actually, target prioritization in Painkiller is non-existent because most of the time you're fighting two different enemy types max anyways. There's not much to prioritize to begin with. Which maybe would not have been the case if the enemy cast didn't keep getting flushed every handful of levels.

This ^

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, Painkiller is cool visually, but I found it dull in terms of gameplay. Its so repetitive.
Get locked in room, fight a bunch of guys who are the same 1-2 enemies, repeat.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Yeah, Painkiller is cool visually, but I found it dull in terms of gameplay. Its so repetitive.
Get locked in room, fight a bunch of guys who are the same 1-2 enemies, repeat.

That's NuDoom in a nutshell.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Painkiller - good for impaling enemies and bunny hopping addiction.
For everything else - play something else.

 

[soulburner]

The sound is horrible. Each and every sound is as loud as possible, so if you are waiting to hear a grenade explode, you can miss it if there's anything casting a sound nearby, even if it's a broken light with sparks coming out of it. Monster sounds are impossible to distinguish between. The music gets tiresome quickly and is also a victim of loudness war - I know it's supposed to be industrial metal, so being noisy is kind of an integral part of it, but it's simply fatiguing to the ear.

I have to disagree with this part. I like that the sound effects are loud. There are too many first-person shooters where the guns just give off pathetic "pew-pew" sounding shots. Also, you can control the music volume, so just turn it down if you don't like it.

I must disagree with your disagreement. There are no loud sound effects in Doom 2016, because since everything is as loud as possible already, there is no technical way to produce a sound that is even louder. There is very little dynamic range at all and... Doom 2016 has pretty pathetic "pew-pew" sounding shots (maybe except the super shotgun?)...

 

[JDR13]

The sound is horrible. Each and every sound is as loud as possible, so if you are waiting to hear a grenade explode, you can miss it if there's anything casting a sound nearby, even if it's a broken light with sparks coming out of it. Monster sounds are impossible to distinguish between. The music gets tiresome quickly and is also a victim of loudness war - I know it's supposed to be industrial metal, so being noisy is kind of an integral part of it, but it's simply fatiguing to the ear.

I have to disagree with this part. I like that the sound effects are loud. There are too many first-person shooters where the guns just give off pathetic "pew-pew" sounding shots. Also, you can control the music volume, so just turn it down if you don't like it.

I must disagree with your disagreement. There are no loud sound effects in Doom 2016, because since everything is as loud as possible already, there is no technical way to produce a sound that is even louder. There is very little dynamic range at all and... Doom 2016 has pretty pathetic "pew-pew" sounding shots (maybe except the super shotgun?)...

If you say so.

 

[Cadmus]

The guns in Doom2016 do sound weak imo.

Guys, Serious Sam is one of the most retarded games I have ever played in my life, no matter what autists think about "target prioritization", lol. Who gives a shit. You are playing an autist simulator, not a game. SHOOT WAVES OF SHITTY LOOKING, ANNOYING ENEMIES FOR 8 HOURS. There is literally nothing else. No atmosphere, the graphics look shitty, the enemies are boring and repetitive, the levels look retarded and simple, the guns are boring. You are literally playing Shooting Range: The Game (BUT BUT BUT I MUST DODGE TOO, IT'S AKSHUALLY VERY SKILL INTENSIVE!!) Fuck Serious Sam, it's a cheapo piece of shit mod, not a proper game.

 

[soulburner]

As a tech demo for the engine, I think Serious Sam "works". As a game, I could never get into it for more than 30 minutes.

 

[schru]

It takes a longer time for The First Encounter to get into its own; the first several maps have low-scale battles and I wasn't too impressed by the game until the dunes and corridor maps. When the battles get big and challenging enough, using the entire arsenal to tackle the varied waves of enemies does become very enjoyable, though. Also, while quite minimal in form, I think the humour and Sam's voice actor are great. Serious Sam 3 is even worse in terms of interspersing the good maps with weak ones.

The music can be very good too:

 

[Durandal]

It takes a longer time for The First Encounter to get into its own; the first several maps have low-scale battles and I wasn't too impressed by the game until the dunes and corridor maps. When the battles get big and challenging enough, using the entire arsenal to tackle the varied waves of enemies does become very enjoyable, though. Also, while quite minimal in form, I think the humour and Sam's voice actor are great. Serious Sam 3 is even worse in terms of interspersing the good maps with weak ones.

Serious Sam 3 had more "actual level design" (read: more confined maps with more constrained layouts). Thing is, nobody liked those maps, because Serious Sam doesn't work as well in Doom-sized maps. Everyone agreed the more classic flat open arenas in the second half of SS3 represented the best the had to offer. Serious Sam 3 was also terribly unfunny, though unfunny in such a way that because of its sincerity it loops back into becoming charming instead, because no other game is quite as unfunny in the same way Serious Sam is without becoming straight-up cringeworthy.

 

[schru]

Yes, I mostly just didn't enjoy the humour in the third one. It worked in the first because it was sparse and just so unapologetically dumb. The delivery by the actor is an important factor too.

Or this cutscene from SSII, it's the most trivial slapstick, but it goes on for just a bit too long and uses an angle that goes outside the ‘set’ making it funny in a unique way:

 

[Average Manatee]

really? I found Serious Sam's enemy variety pretty lacking. in Painkiller you've got different enemies for differently themed levels: e.g. undead in graveyard, witches in old village, soldiers in WW1, electrocuted inmates in asylum etc. but those screaming headless bombers exist throughout the whole Serious Sam franchise in pretty much every single level. and the setting is much too bright and humorous for my liking. Painkiller's dark, sort of gothic atmosphere/vibes are much more to my liking.

visually, yes
gameplay-wise, lol

Completely flushing your enemy cast for every single episode is a terrible habit. Potentially interesting enemies get never seen again, interesting combinations of enemies in different episodes are made less possible, and for existing enemies to appear again in the newer episodes they'd have to be reskinned and passed off as a 'new' enemy with maybe boosted stats, instead of maintaining a consistent and memorable cast of enemies.

It didn't help that the roles every enemy in Painkiller covered is barely half as large as the ones in Serious Sam. There's way too many blind rushers, hitscanning assholes, and straightforward projectile-throwing enemies of the most basic kind without even significant variance in health, speed, etc. to make them stand out more in combat. Actually, target prioritization in Painkiller is non-existent because most of the time you're fighting two different enemy types max anyways. There's not much to prioritize to begin with. Which maybe would not have been the case if the enemy cast didn't keep getting flushed every handful of levels.

yep.

Composition of different enemy types across different map types is THE source of gameplay, just dumping a hundred of the same type of enemy in a level to rush the player is bad level design 101. This is why games like DOOM are enjoyable for decades while games like Painkiller runs out of novelty and makes you beg for a new episode with different enemies after an hour or so of play.

Painkiller's enemy cast was clearly set up to appease the people looking at pictures on the back of the box and reviewers trying out the first 5 mins of a few levels, not the people actually playing the game.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

The guns in Doom2016 do sound weak imo.

Guys, Serious Sam is one of the most retarded games I have ever played in my life, no matter what autists think about "target prioritization", lol. Who gives a shit. You are playing an autist simulator, not a game. SHOOT WAVES OF SHITTY LOOKING, ANNOYING ENEMIES FOR 8 HOURS. There is literally nothing else. No atmosphere, the graphics look shitty, the enemies are boring and repetitive, the levels look retarded and simple, the guns are boring. You are literally playing Shooting Range: The Game (BUT BUT BUT I MUST DODGE TOO, IT'S AKSHUALLY VERY SKILL INTENSIVE!!) Fuck Serious Sam, it's a cheapo piece of shit mod, not a proper game.

It's still better than almost all modern shooters.

 

[JDR13]

The guns in Doom2016 do sound weak imo.

Guys, Serious Sam is one of the most retarded games I have ever played in my life, no matter what autists think about "target prioritization", lol. Who gives a shit. You are playing an autist simulator, not a game. SHOOT WAVES OF SHITTY LOOKING, ANNOYING ENEMIES FOR 8 HOURS. There is literally nothing else. No atmosphere, the graphics look shitty, the enemies are boring and repetitive, the levels look retarded and simple, the guns are boring. You are literally playing Shooting Range: The Game (BUT BUT BUT I MUST DODGE TOO, IT'S AKSHUALLY VERY SKILL INTENSIVE!!) Fuck Serious Sam, it's a cheapo piece of shit mod, not a proper game.

What game did you play? SS looked great for its time. Let me guess.. you played it years later for about 15 minutes?

The level design is far from simple, and the games are loaded with hidden areas and easter eggs. There is definitely more to them than just shooting. Please jump back on tard bus and go home.

 

[JDR13]

Yes, I mostly just didn't enjoy the humour in the third one. It worked in the first because it was sparse and just so unapologetically dumb. The delivery by the actor is an important factor too.

Or this cutscene from SSII, it's the most trivial slapstick, but it goes on for just a bit too long and uses an angle that goes outside the ‘set’ making it funny in a unique way:

I need to try SSII again someday. I have to admit, I really didn't like it much at all. It was too different from the previous games, and the weirdness was just over the top even for a Serious Sam game.

 

[schru]

I need to try SSII again someday. I have to admit, I really didn't like it much at all. It was too different from the previous games, and the weirdness was just over the top even for a Serious Sam game.

It's not very good compared to the other instalments. It's a smooth but simple console shooter, but on the positive side it switches the scenery often. I mainly played it for the... story and character of Sam.

 

[Cadmus]

It's still better than almost all modern shooters.

Its not even a real game.

What game did you play? SS looked great for its time. Let me guess.. you played it years later for about 15 minutes?

The level design is far from simple, and the games are loaded with hidden areas and easter eggs. There is definitely more to them than just shooting. Please jump back on tard bus and go home.

Played the one in Egypt, guess its the third. It looked hilariously bad. Dont care about retarded easter eggs and hidden areas, they are only worth anything if the general levels themselves are interesting in the first place.

 

[passerby]

SS is not a classic FPS, it's a first person SHMUP.

I've found it medicore, finished HD version of the first one, was mildly entertained, but never found a desire to contine with further installments.

 

[Multidirectional]

I mainly played it for the... story and character of Sam.

It definitely was more amusing in that department than SS3, from what I recall. Not that I would ever replay it for that.

 

[schru]

Yes, SS3 had several funny one-liners and that's about it. It mainly lacked the air of absurdity that the first games had.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

Here is the main problem. The game chose the laziest way to design a level. They make a map and put spawn points on it. That is it. There is zero life. There are no survivors being tortured or trying to survive. The demons aren't doing anything except spawning on command. In the end, it's a barren, lonely, metal world, sprinkled with SLAYER69 edgy music.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Not entirely true. You do see demons eating corpses at times, and the first time you find a Baron of Hell its infighting.
But yeah, there are too many Painkiller moments in the game where they just lock you in a room and you have to deal with it. I find such sequences exhausting, especially late game when you could face 3 of those sort of things, back to back.

The best parts of the game was when you could freely explore and fight enemies along the way, that was Doom to me.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

It's still better than almost all modern shooters.

Its not even a real game.

What game did you play? SS looked great for its time. Let me guess.. you played it years later for about 15 minutes?

The level design is far from simple, and the games are loaded with hidden areas and easter eggs. There is definitely more to them than just shooting. Please jump back on tard bus and go home.

Played the one in Egypt, guess its the third. It looked hilariously bad. Dont care about retarded easter eggs and hidden areas, they are only worth anything if the general levels themselves are interesting in the first place.

"The one in Egypt" could refer to First Encounter or Before First Encounter.
Did it look like gritty modern shooter shit? Because that would be BFE.