The original Tomb Raider, its remake, and the loss of subtlety

[Ravielsk]

Lara's character was ruined by CD. Look at her AoD incarnate which was peak design

and compare it to

The change in design illustrates how they turned Lara into a pussy. She's capable of surviving life-threatening situations, sure, but the classic Lara seemed to love getting into them - that's the main difference.

Anniversary Lara is kind of a bad example of this. They softened her features but personality wise its the same character, only with more lip quivering. Its the 2013 reboot that took an adveturer and turned her into a tumblr girl.

 

[Melcar]

If they hadn't said Lara was the MC of NuTB I wouldn't have recognized here. It's like one of those really bad cosplays.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

AoD

Is AoD worth checking out? Don't remember playing it.

Its a weird game. It kind of started the rot the series had by moving away from the grid-based platforming and adding a focus cinematics, but there's still some solid platforming going on and it had some interesting ideas. The ideas don't add that much, but for the most part they don't feel like they remove too much either. The cutscene where you have to get someone to help you was pretty clever though. Also, the arsenal, despite being about ten times the amount of most previous entries, somehow don't have duel-wielding pistols.

Anniversary Lara is kind of a bad example of this. They softened her features but personality wise its the same character, only with more lip quivering. Its the 2013 reboot that took an adveturer and turned her into a tumblr girl.

Didn't Anniversary Lara cry when she killed her first human character?

 

[JarlFrank]

Anniversary Lara is kind of a bad example of this. They softened her features but personality wise its the same character, only with more lip quivering. Its the 2013 reboot that took an adveturer and turned her into a tumblr girl.

Wut?

The Legend trilogy (Legend, Anniversary, Underworld) still had mostly TR-style gameplay even though it was much simpler in level design, but Lara's character was as far from the original as the modern survivor trilogy.

The original Lara was a classic action hero, the Legend Lara had a lot more emotional baggage added to her.
She is driven by the death of her parents and finding out what happened to her mom. Daddy/mommy issues are her #1 character trait.
She has an emotional crisis after killing her first humans, and the human enemies in Anniversary even emotionally manipulate her in several cutscenes. This would never have happened to original Lara. Anniversary Lara even feels sad about Pierre's death... despite the guy ambushing her several times with the intent to kill her. OH SHIT THE FUCKER WHO TRIED TO KILL ME DIED, HOW SAD, BETTER MAKE A MELODRAMATIC FACIAL EXPRESSION
The whole "internal struggle" aspect of her character doesn't fit the original Lara at all.

When Angel of Death tried to make her character more complex, they made her a little edgier and gave her some issues in the here-and-now to deal with. It was a lot more successful at updating Lara than whatever the fuck Crystal Dynamics was doing, as it still preserved her core identity of 90s action hero.
As soon as Crystal Dynamics got their hands on her, they turned her into a whiny bitch.

 

[Melcar]

More like Crystal Durrnamics right?

 

[Ravielsk]

The original Lara was a classic action hero, the Legend Lara had a lot more emotional baggage added to her.
She is driven by the death of her parents and finding out what happened to her mom. Daddy/mommy issues are her #1 character trait.
She has an emotional crisis after killing her first humans, and the human enemies in Anniversary even emotionally manipulate her in several cutscenes. This would never have happened to original Lara. Anniversary Lara even feels sad about Pierre's death... despite the guy ambushing her several times with the intent to kill her. OH SHIT THE FUCKER WHO TRIED TO KILL ME DIED, HOW SAD, BETTER MAKE A MELODRAMATIC FACIAL EXPRESSION
The whole "internal struggle" aspect of her character doesn't fit the original Lara at all.

Fair enough. Its been ages since I played those games and most of what stuck in my mind is from Legends where in the first few missions Lara goes to gun down a Yakuza with a smirk on her face. Now that I think about it the impression I got from those games was mostly that the devs were playing ping-pong with her personality where in cutscene she is super concerned and apologetic and the gameplay she is spouting one liners about her next trip.

Anniversary in general is just kind of forgettable so that might be why just erased it from memory. As different though as she may be in Anniversary it was never utterly annoying like in 2013 where the whole game is her reassuring herself that she "can do it"(with an american accent on top of it) even after she wiped out a village or two. Worse yet they felt the need to repeat the exact same schtick in the sequel creating a trilogy with two opening episodes and no middle one.

 

[Semiurge]

Anniversary Lara even feels sad about Pierre's death... despite the guy ambushing her several times with the intent to kill her. OH SHIT THE FUCKER WHO TRIED TO KILL ME DIED, HOW SAD, BETTER MAKE A MELODRAMATIC FACIAL EXPRESSION

Not really. She only looks away in disgust briefly because he's been trampled to mush by the centaurs, even though the gory aftermath is only implied because age restrictions.

 

[Ezekiel]

Don't understand what's going on with the controls in the original Tomb Raider. She often doesn't jump when I press jump, whether I'm using a controller or keyboard. Especially if I'm running. I didn't have this issue in Tomb Raider 2. Edit: If I'm stationary, it's fine, but if I'm running it doesn't respond over half the time.

 

[kangaxx]

I do remember the running jump on Saturn back in the day being a little bit sticky. So if you tap it then it sometimes won't execute, but it reliably does as long as you hold it long enough.

 

[JarlFrank]

Don't understand what's going on with the controls in the original Tomb Raider. She often doesn't jump when I press jump, whether I'm using a controller or keyboard. Especially if I'm running. I didn't have this issue in Tomb Raider 2. Edit: If I'm stationary, it's fine, but if I'm running it doesn't respond over half the time.

Are you running far enough? You have to run an entire block's distance to be able to perform a running jump.

 

[Hobknobling]

Guys and JarlFrank

I'm playing the og TB for the first time, having played 2 and 4 extensively. It's fun, my daughter loves it. Anyway, the T-Rex fight. It's cool, my 6-year-old LOVED it, it was exiting despite me knowing it was coming. But gameplay-wise it's very basic, the dino isn't even that tough, his hp is maybe that of 5 wolves. The one cool thing is that he can one shot you if you jump into his mouth. It's easy, too easy, and the lack of an interesting environmental puzzle associated with him is a missed opportunity.

I'm not saying the remake is better, but it is cinematic, the gameplay is no less sophisticated than in the original, and it could be much worse. Let's not pretend the T-Rex's main strength is not "omfg, a t-rex out of nowhere" aspect, and let's not judge someone trying to replicate this experience too harshly.

But the remake doesn't give you the "omfg, a t-rex out of nowhere" aspect. It gives you a lengthy cutscene that telegraphs the t-rex's arrival. You get a scene of raptors running away from something in terror while Lara looks on with a concerned facial expression. Then t-rex appears and the cutscene goes on, showing t-rex slaughtering a bunch of helpless little raptors, and Lara running away in panic. It takes a long while until control is handed back to you.

That's not "out of nowhere". That's heavily telegraphed, and the shock has worn off long before you get to put your fingers on the keyboard again. By making it more "cinematic" they ruined the whole surprise of the moment.

The T-Rex also does the lame scream at the camera trope. Sam Hyde, out of all the people in this world, has a good rant about it here (9:18):

 

[Semiurge]

Don't understand what's going on with the controls in the original Tomb Raider. She often doesn't jump when I press jump, whether I'm using a controller or keyboard. Especially if I'm running. I didn't have this issue in Tomb Raider 2. Edit: If I'm stationary, it's fine, but if I'm running it doesn't respond over half the time.

That's not normal. What patches (if anything) have you applied? Are you running an emulation of some kind or just a PC version? No other games have issues with multi-key commands?

 

[Rincewind]

Related to the subject we touched on earlier ("why were games so much better in the 90s"); Roberta Williams talks about The Decline in 1999 (!). Probably it has been posted by someone else previously in some other thread, but here we go:

GD: Why do you think that the Adventure game genre has kind of died out?

Roberta: Well, since I've not been in touch with the gaming industry as much as I'd like to, my answer might seem kind of off. Back when I got started, which sounds like ancient history, back then the demographics of people who were into computer games, was totally different, in my opinion, then they are today. Back then, computers were more expensive, which made them more exclusive to people who were maybe at a certain income level, or education level. So the people that played computer games 15 years ago were that type of person. They probably didn't watch television as much, and the instant gratification era hadn't quite grown the way it has lately. I think in the last 5 or 6 years, the demographics have really changed, now this is my opinion, because computers are less expensive so more people can afford them. More "average" people now feel they should own one. There's also the influence of the game consoles as well. So most of these people have gotten used to shoot-em' up kind of games on the consoles. Now they want to get that kind of experience on their computers.

(source)

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Tomb raider was always popamole decline.

 

[Psquit]

Don't understand what's going on with the controls in the original Tomb Raider. She often doesn't jump when I press jump, whether I'm using a controller or keyboard. Especially if I'm running. I didn't have this issue in Tomb Raider 2. Edit: If I'm stationary, it's fine, but if I'm running it doesn't respond over half the time.

The same thing happened with my game. The delay makes precise jumping a bitch making you reload every time you die, the only thing I installed was the "Tomb Raider Automated Fix" are you telling me there's no delay with the jumping?
Anyways, for some reason, you guys didn't mention the legacy of kain games and Shadow man remastered (in my opinion way better than any tomb raider game).

 

[Ash]

Don't understand what's going on with the controls in the original Tomb Raider. She often doesn't jump when I press jump, whether I'm using a controller or keyboard. Especially if I'm running. I didn't have this issue in Tomb Raider 2. Edit: If I'm stationary, it's fine, but if I'm running it doesn't respond over half the time.

Anyways, for some reason, you guys didn't mention the legacy of kain games and Shadow man remastered (in my opinion way better than any tomb raider game).

Nah, they're both rather mediocre

As for TR, when running, lara has to have covered 1 block of distance before she can jump. After this requirement is met it is 100% responsive, if not met, 0%. This acts as a way to ensure absolute 100% precision (and no less than that) during a running jump after a backstep or roll, both of which cover one block.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Tomb Raider 2 was better

 

[Maxie]

old game gud
anniversary is the complete package no need to torture yourself with tomb raider 1

 

[Ash]

Anniversary is dumbed down and diluted for retards. You hereby out yourself as a retard.

Every time one shows their serious lack of monocle in this way they should be banned for a week. To obtain reentry they have to prove they have played the game in full in that time with a knowledge test.

 

[Semiurge]

Don't understand what's going on with the controls in the original Tomb Raider. She often doesn't jump when I press jump, whether I'm using a controller or keyboard. Especially if I'm running. I didn't have this issue in Tomb Raider 2. Edit: If I'm stationary, it's fine, but if I'm running it doesn't respond over half the time.

Anyways, for some reason, you guys didn't mention the legacy of kain games and Shadow man remastered (in my opinion way better than any tomb raider game).

Nah, they're both rather mediocre

As for TR, when running, lara has to have covered 1 block of distance before she can jump. After this requirement is met it is 100% responsive, if not met, 0%. This acts as a way to ensure absolute 100% precision (and no less than that) during a running jump after a backstep or roll, both of which cover one block.

Zeke's problem is that the jump button simply doesn't do anything most of the time when he's pressing down two buttons. His installation is somehow fucked judging by his having no problems with TR2. These two games should have the same responsiveness.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

they have to prove they have played the game in full 7 times

fixed that for codex.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

The T-Rex also does the lame scream at the camera trope.

Reviving because i saw this gif from the gog page of Stalker 2:

My first reaction was to roll my eyes, I don't know why developers keep doing that, that's lame and unoriginal, not scary, original Stalkers games are scary because they didn't have scripted sequences/cutscenes to introduce monsters, the monsters or whatever would just appear and chase you during gameplay, no introdruction needed. that gif looks looks exactly like the doom 2016 one:


"look how scary and tough i am, are you not afraid?!" so lame.

They are removing the subtlety of Stalker as well, i bet Stalker 2 is going to be a shit game, from what i've seen it looks too cinematic, more like Metro than Stalker:


Someone said that technological limitation made old games good, well for Stalker, it was better when they did not have the budget to make a cinematic hyper scripted game, now it looks like a generic triple a game. Cinematic scripted games full of cutscenes are bad for modding as well, and Stalker games are known for having good mods

 

[Ash]

It's 2022. Don't expect anything. I gave up and let expectations go in 2011 almost.

In most cases they most likely do this so that they have marketing material for the retarded masses, like those over in the Deathloop thread.

 

[ds]

It's 2022.

Happy new year my man.

Not having expectations won't stop the games from declining even more. The last TR already added an in-game economy for no reason - what's next, microtransactions to buy crafting ingredients?

 

[Ash]

ha. right, happy new year. Same shit, different year.

Arx Libertatis finished yet nigga?

Nothing will stop the decline short of the destruction of humanity (no joke), so abandon all hope. People suck.