The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Yeah I think Microsoft sees the future as a service model where you subscribe or purchase from their service and they offer a variety of hardware methods to use that service.

Exactly. Xbox brand will be about software environment, not hardware itself.

 

[aweigh]

XxXBoXxX 420

 

[Whipped Cream]

The PS5 will have an SSD? Wow, just like the PC that I built in 2010, three years before the PS4 came out. How futuristic...

What? It will have some sort of super-fast SSD that doesn't use a SATA port?... You mean like the PCIe 3 SSD that I bought earlier this year? Amazing...

What? Cerny, the lead designer behind the PS5, said in an interview in April that it has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD currently available for PC? Yeah, he said that because they are most likely using some variation of PCIe 4, which has a bandwidth that is 1.5-2 times as fast as PCIe 3... and became available commercially in July this year. Three months after the interview. Sneaky sneaky Cerny.

Seriously though, Sony and Microsoft focusing on faster loading times is a very good thing. Worst case scenario if you're a PC gamer is that you just have to buy a new SSD.

 

[DalekFlay]

Seriously though, Sony and Microsoft focusing on faster loading times is a very good thing. Worst case scenario if you're a PC gamer is that you just have to buy a new SSD.

Well in my case it requires a new mobo I think, but overall not a huge deal. Also I doubt normal SSDs are going to be unusable, just slightly slower.

 

[The Decline]

It depends on the actual chips the ssd is using. If they cheap out and put a crappy tlc or god forbid a qlc ssd then the performance will be worse than a decent sata ssd.

 

[soulburner]

It depends on the actual chips the ssd is using. If they cheap out and put a crappy tlc or god forbid a qlc ssd then the performance will be worse than a decent sata ssd.

I agree about crappy, but being TLC or even QLC does not necessarily equal crap. For example, the Samsung QVO disks use QLC and they perform pretty great - the read performance is what you expect from a modern SSD. The only thing that suffers is write. TLC and QLC disks use SLC as a cache - it's damn fast, but once the write buffer runs out, the performance suffers immensely. The mentioned QVO disks use an SLC cache of 48 GB, if I recall correctly. So when you copy a 48 GB file to it, it will be as fast as the specs say. Once you copy a larger file, the write performance will drop in an epic kind of way, dropping to just about 70 MB/s. This doesn't really matter on a console, to which you rarely copy large files - when installing games you either download them (and be limited by your internet speed) or install from BluRay, which is like below 30 MB/s. So... they can install whatever disk they want, really, as long as it has a high read speed, which shouldn't be hard to achieve even with a QLC.

 

[Makabb]

The xbox ssd is supposed to be 2gb/s while rumour is ps5 will have a 8gb/s ssd

PS5 exclusives will be very interesting.

 

[Makabb]

Also latest rumour on PS5 GPU is 13 Tflops RDNA 2.0

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Zero chance the GPU will be 2GHz with 52 CUs, we are talking for 550$+ territory for only the GPU. 13tf FP32 is nothing that mind-blowing, it's VEGA 64 level of compute.

 

[Makabb]

Zero chance the GPU will be 2GHz with 52 CUs, we are talking for 550$+ territory for only the GPU. 13tf FP32 is nothing that mind-blowing, it's VEGA 64 level of compute.

It's 13 tf RDNA, RDNA has 45% more performance over previous gen. So that's effectively a 17tflop card of previous gen.

It's not 0% chance...... xbox is already confirmed to be 12 TFlops RDNA 2

DF had a video on RDNA perf increase, it's 45%

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Don't quote me if you will not read properly what I posted.

 

[DalekFlay]

All these people expecting a $2000 PC in a $400 console are going to be pretty disappointed.

 

[Makabb]

All these people expecting a $2000 PC in a $400 console are going to be pretty disappointed.

It's not a 2000$ PC, it's the technology advancements a year from now (basicaly it will be 2021) that makes the console so cost effective.
New GPUs will also arrive from nvidia and AMD, but they will cost, consoles are cheap because Sony and MS buys from AMD millions of parts so they pay less.
There is no magic here, just technology and economics.


It's funny you claim this when Xbox has already unveiled the console and we know the specs, it's like you don't want to acknowledge the truth that a 500$ console will be like a 1500$ PC in 2020.

 

[DalekFlay]

It's not a 2000$ PC, it's the technology advancements a year from now (basicaly it will be 2021) that makes the console so cost effective.

You realize they are being built now and not in 2021, right?

It's funny you claim this when Xbox has already unveiled the console and we know the specs, it's like you don't want to acknowledge the truth that a 500$ console will be like a 1500$ PC in 2020.

You don't know the specs, only rumors. Nothing has been announced. Also I don't really care one way or another, I've told you before it could be a $5,000 PC in a $400 box and I wouldn't care because I'm a PC gamer. I'm just trying to bring people back to reality.

 

[Whipped Cream]

It's funny you claim this when Xbox has already unveiled the console and we know the specs

We don't know the specs of the XFridge. All Microsoft has communicated officially about the GPU is a vague statement that Phil Spencer made to GameSpot about the Series X having "over eight times the GPU power of the Xbox One, and two times what an Xbox One X is." Everything else is just rumors and hearsay. And Phil's statement is very vague and could be interpreted multiple ways. The Xbox One has 1.3 TFlops GCN, while the Xbox One X has 6 TFlops GCN, so he could mean that it has the equivalent of 12 TFlops GCN, which would be about 10 TFlops RDNA, roughly the equivalent of an RX 5700 XT. Alternatively you could interpret that he meant that it has 12 TFlops of RDNA. Or alternatively he could have just pulled the numbers out of a hat.

Either way, TFlops is kind of overrated as a metric of how powerfull a GPU is anyway. There are a number of other factors to consider as well.

 

[Morgoth]

Phil Spencer was intentionally very open to interpretation when he was saying "twice as fast as XB1X." Actual side-by-side performance? Or TFLOPS numbers? That will only be fully known when the chips go into full production, and they get yield results. Will they have too many defective chips? Then they'll have to disable CUs and/or downclock them for satisfying volume. Reaching maybe only ~9-10 TFLOPS, but then Phil's statement of "twice as fast as XB1X" would still hold true. Or do they reach their internal target of actual 12 "Navi" TFLOPS due to good yields, then Phil can brag too. That will only be known in the coming months.

Pretty sure though those consoles will be much more expensive. ~500-600 bucks for the High-end model, thus the necessity of the cheaper Lockhart version.

 

[Whipped Cream]

I'm pretty shure that the PS5 will be 500 dollars. I don't think Sony wants to go above that. On the other hand, going for 400 would probably mean some pretty major compromises on the hardware. As for Microsoft, well, if they're doing one console then they'll probably want to sell it at the same price as Sony. If they are doing a high-end and a low-end one then it might make sense from a marketing standpoint for one of them to be 400 dollars and the other to be 600 dollars to sandwich the PS5 with both a cheaper and a more powerfull model. If they go below 400 dollars for the Lockhart then it will probably be a piece of crap, unless they sell each unit at a huge loss, which I doubt that they want to do. I think both Sony and Microsoft will be aiming to roughly break even on each console initially.

 

[DalekFlay]

Phil Spencer was intentionally very open to interpretation when he was saying "twice as fast as XB1X." Actual side-by-side performance? Or TFLOPS numbers? That will only be fully known when the chips go into full production, and they get yield results.

Digital Foundry had an interesting thought that he's mainly talking performance. They used Hitman 2 as an example, a game that runs on PC's medium settings at 30fps on Xbox One X. The idea was maybe that same game runs at 60fps on Series X hardware, leading to his "twice as powerful" claim.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

I think they'll target the £350-£400 mark. Which was the PS4 pro/ X price point.

 

[unfairlight]

It'll either be a two model deal with one at $400 and one at $500-600 or it'll be $500. $500 is selling it at a potentially very large loss already. The days of a $400 console are basically done for.

 

[Makabb]

. I'm just trying to bring people back to reality.

This is the reality deal with it

 

[Makabb]

In other news, we are getting not only RDNA but RDNA 2 in both consoles, the 2020 iteration of AMD's gpus which will run on 7nm+, inb4 DalekFlay and BlackAdder

 

[DalekFlay]

I truly hope you get your $2,000 PC in your PS5, Makabb. It would make me happy to see your face light up on Christmas morning to that magic box under your tree. I just don't think it's gonna happen for you bro.

 

[Makabb]

Welp, it's time to get a 10,000$ 8k monitor to see what we always wanted to see, nose hair

 

[Makabb]

This dude is a game dev, PC's are gonna be left in the dust.