The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

[DalekFlay]

If we're assuming it's roughly an AMD 5700 then a downclocked 2080 sounds about right, honestly. It's basically a 2070 Super, which is barely better than a 5700xt (and worse in some games).

 

[sullynathan]

 

[Venser]

So they already said the console will simply be called Xbox and it seems that Xbox Series X will be the equivalent to Xbox One X, a more powerful model that will be launched alongside the base model. It might depend on PS5 specs whether that will be the case but they can't wait much longer with the production cause the supply must be ready for next Christmas.

 

[Makabb]

See it's 12 tflop, told ya it's 12 tflop of RDNA... which is about 17 tflop of GCN, for 500$.

 

[soulburner]

See it's 12 tflop, told ya it's 12 tflop of RDNA... which is about 17 tflop of GCN, for 500$.

Teraflops are teraflops. There are no GCN teraflops or RDNA teraflops. One teraflop equals one teraflop, no matter the architecture.

The base RX5700 model is about 16 teraflops and the XT variant is close to 20 teraflops (FP16 precision), so...

 

[tritosine2k]

They cornered themselves with polygon counts (and pixel count to go with it) , hence prevalent screen space methods, because image space is independent of scene complexity. You wont get volumetrics prob not even wortwhile LOD so theres this huge gap between AAA corridor stuff and online shooters and it's not about to close.

 

[Makabb]

See it's 12 tflop, told ya it's 12 tflop of RDNA... which is about 17 tflop of GCN, for 500$.

Teraflops are teraflops. There are no GCN teraflops or RDNA teraflops. One teraflop equals one teraflop, no matter the architecture..

Sorry Soulburner but this time I cannot agree with you as this is false, 1 teraflop of RDNA is faster than 1 teraflop of previous architecture.

'End to end, by stacking up those two percentage gains, the improvement is around 45 per cent overall.'


https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-teraflop-face-off-current-gen-vs-next-gen

 

[Makabb]

Tahiti/Polaris ( rx 280 and 580) is GCN architecture, Navi (rx 5700) is RDNA architecture. RDNA is 45% faster than GCN at same flop count, both consoles will have an RDNA card.

So when putting next-gen consoles vs an nvidia card or AMDs previous architecture count, you have to add 45% more performance to flop count of what they said.

That's why 12 tflops in next-gen consoles equals about 17-18 tflops of other video cards (not counting rx 5700)

 

[DalekFlay]

That article is touting 7nm efficiency, but it's not like it makes up for raw power. a 5700xt still performs worse than a 2070 Super in most games, and a 2080 Super in everything. Microsoft and Sony can't just slap a 7nm chip in these and blow any PC away, as you constantly pretend you believe. That's not me saying they won't be a big improvement over 6 year old consoles... of course they will be... but they're not gonna be super machines that beat a $2,000 PC for years, cook you pizza and get their girlfriend to give you a double BJ.

 

[Makabb]

That article is touting 7nm efficiency, but it's not like it makes up for raw power. a 5700xt still performs worse than a 2070 Super in most games, and a 2080 Super in everything. Microsoft and Sony can't just slap a 7nm chip in these and blow any PC away, as you constantly pretend you believe. That's not me saying they won't be a big improvement over 6 year old consoles... of course they will be... but they're not gonna be super machines that beat a $2,000 PC for years, cook you pizza and get their girlfriend to give you a double BJ.

Dalek please, next-gen consoles do not have a 5700, the xbox has a custom gpu of 12 tflop RDNA.

 

[soulburner]

Generally, using flops as a measurement is not indicative of real life performance. It's only a theoretical approximation that takes into account several factors, including memory speed. Often comparing two competing products with the same number of teraflops will give significantly different results. I remember back in the day, AMD always had more flops than Nvidia, but it usually was slower in games (but won in compute), despite the theoretical advantage.

If the PS5 is going to utilize HBM memory, the Navi chip might have an edge here and offer higher performance than the PC desktop parts on the market today.

 

[DalekFlay]

If the PS5 is going to utilize HBM memory, the Navi chip might have an edge here and offer higher performance than the PC desktop parts on the market today.

Memory and SSD streaming speed have been touted as the focus for a year now, so it wouldn't surprise me. I talked before about how there's usually one aspect of new consoles the PC has to catch up on. However I doubt it effects much since PC will catch up quickly and older hardware will still work, because companies aren't going to write-off a third of the market. At worst we're looking at a Call of Duty 2 style situation where the PC versions lacks a couple subtle effects and needs a newer rig to run at 60fps.

The real interesting thing to me is if the consoles are super powerful this time what will they focus on? 4k resolution, higher framerates, larger crowd, less loading, or just typical graphics upgrades? History tells me it will be 4k and graphics, for marketing reasons, but I hope for something else.

 

[Taxnomore]

If LockHart is real, then it's just going to be 4 TFLOPS game as a basis.

I have said it before, and will say it again : If you bought a fairly high end PC from 3 or 4 years ago, that manages to run current games in 1080P 60 FPS, it's fairly possible that you are not going to need to upgrade and will merely need to push a few sliders left and right. The ressource hogs they are targeting for next gen is 4K and Raytracing. Switch them off, and you will already have a dramatic framerate increase. That Microsoft is trying to get "next gen" games playable on a machine comparable to a PS4 Pro according to insider sources is quite telling that the graphical leap is not going to be that impressive.

 

[Makabb]

If LockHart is real, then it's just going to be 4 TFLOPS game as a basis.

4tflops is just gpu, the CPU is the same, which means that all games will be the same but lockhart will be running them in 1080p and not 4k.

The main power of next consoles comes from CPU and SSD.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

The Nvidia CEO in a recent keynote in China has implied that a RTX 2080 Max-Q (slower than Desktop RTX 2080) will be faster than Next-Gen consoles.

Not sure if this is just baseless bragging, or do they know more than the average Internet shitposter?

Who gives a shit, it's a £1500 laptop.

Leather jacket man can go fuck himself.

 

[Makabb]

The Nvidia CEO in a recent keynote in China has implied that a RTX 2080 Max-Q (slower than Desktop RTX 2080) will be faster than Next-Gen consoles.

Not sure if this is just baseless bragging, or do they know more than the average Internet shitposter?

Who gives a shit, it's a £1500 laptop.

Leather jacket man can go fuck himself.

Anyone who buys from nvidia in 2020 and beyond should re-evaluate

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Whole market is a piece of shit currently.

I wouldn't buy anything until the new machines are out... Which is difficult because my 2500k is on its arse!

 

[Makabb]

Techpowereup unofficialy reveals the gpu

The Playstation 5 GPU will be a graphics card by AMD, that is expected to launch in 2020. Built on the 7 nm process, and based on the Navi 10 graphics processor, the card supports DirectX 12.0. The Navi 10 graphics processor is an average sized chip with a die area of 251 mm² and 10,300 million transistors. Unlike the fully unlocked Radeon RX 5700 XT, which uses the same GPU but has all 2560 shaders enabled, AMD has disabled some shading units on the Playstation 5 GPU to reach the product's target shader count. It features 2304 shading units, 144 texture mapping units and 64 ROPs. AMD has placed 8,192 MB GDDR6 memory on the card, which are connected using a 256-bit memory interface. The GPU is operating at a frequency of 2000 MHz, memory is running at 1750 MHz. Being a igp card, the AMD Playstation 5 GPU does not require any additional power connector, its power draw is rated at 150 W maximum. This device has no display connectivity, as it is not designed to have monitors connected to it.
Graphics Processor: Navi 10
Architecture: RDNA 1.0
Size: 7nm
GPU Clock: 2000MHZ
Memory: 8GB GDDR6
Shading units: 2306
CUs: 36
Performance: 9.2 tflops
TDP: 150 W
DX: 12

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/playstation-5-gpu.c3480


So ps5 9 tflop and xbox 12 tflops..... I see ps5 being 100$ cheaper

 

[toro]

Also it seems that PS5 will have better ray tracing than current GPUs, AMD's implementation is different than Nvidia's and will be part of the architecture in terms of pipelines and not this chunk in the corner that Nvidia offers, and we know that Ray tracing brings nvidia GPUs to a halt, so if AMD will have a superior ray tracing on consoles, it will add to the performance.

We already know one, the CPU is a Zen 2, 8 core / 16 thread, and that is atleast a Ryzen 3700, which is a boss cpu.

The chip will be 100% uncut the same.... the only difference will be GHZ, the console one will be running a 3,2ghz most likely as opposed to 4ghz PC.

PS5 will be the biggest console leap in history but it's kind of a fluke really, here is why.

The biggest jump in hardware so far was commodore 64 to amiga, amiga in 1985 was atleast 5 years ahead of its time compared to PCs, we won't have that with PS5, but PS5 having high end components will push current PCs to the limit also.
There are 3 main reason why.

1) Moores law, the CPU in PS5 still will be relevant 10 years from now, as the improvements in CPUs will be even less pronounced that we had before, CPUs went from 22nm to 14 to 7, theres only 5 and 3nm left, and the perfomance gain goin from 7nm to 3nm will be much less than going from 22nm to 7nm. Today even the 10 year old i5s and i7s 2770 can play games, so with todays zen 2 it will be the same.

2) If AMD would not create the Zen 2, there probably would be no PS5 (or it would be crap like it was with PS4) as in 2012 AMD had no good CPU to rival Intel and Sony had to do with what was available.

3) PS4 had a low end cpu and a mid end gpu at launch, ps5 will have everything high end

So since C64 to Amiga this will be the 2nd biggest hardware jump, not directly related with raw power like it was with Amiga in 80's, but many factors played a role for the overall outcome.

This means that the GPU clock leak of 2ghz is also real (oberon confirmed), and in benchmarks they scored on level of RTX 2080

https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-powerful-rtx-2080/

Because the current navi (5700) has no ray tracing.... so it's pretty logical that next lineup of cards from AMD will have ray tracing as PS5 has ray tracing, so it must have the 'big navi', if AMD will release it 6 months from now, that's just in time for PS5 announcement.

Reality check:

Graphics Processor: Navi 10
Architecture: RDNA 1.0
Size: 7nm
GPU Clock: 2000MHZ
Memory: 8GB GDDR6
Shading units: 2306
CUs: 36
Performance: 9.2 tflops
TDP: 150 W
DX: 12

Navi 10! Navi 10! Navi 10! with no HW raytracing!

 

[Makabb]

What? Ray tracing will be there, it's already confirmed.

9 tflops is more than enough, the difference to 12 of xbox is not that much. The biggest improvement comes from CPU and SSD.

 

[toro]

What? Ray tracing will be there, it's already confirmed.

9 tflops is more than enough, the difference to 12 of xbox is not that much. The biggest improvement comes from CPU and SSD.

http://www.journey-through-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html

2) Denial

In this phase some people deny that their loved one has actually died. Others deny that they are so deeply affected by the loss--they push their feelings away to not be overwhelmed by them.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

How about fuckin' games?

 

[soulburner]

If the used GPU is an RDNA 1.0 in the form of a slightly modified RX5700, then the case of Ray Tracing is simple: it will be performed by the already available shader engine. Based on what we've seen with RT speed on GeForce GTX 1xxx series of cards, we can see how poor performance we can expect. However, Crytek did demonstrate some pretty ray traced reflections using their engine that ran pretty well on a Vega 64, so it is likely PS5 games will utilize some form of ray tracing but we will not see a port of Quake 2 RTX (where the whole game world is ray traced) on there because its hardware would fry. It's highly unlikely AMD used an external chip for RT calculations only.

The company did say something about moving the RT calculations to the cloud, so this might somehow be a thing here.

 

[DalekFlay]

Holy crap it's a weakened 5700? Who knew???

 

[Makabb]

Holy crap it's a weakened 5700? Who knew???

Wait for official announcement in february