The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

[Gastrick]

That also supports my point.
Even my kids are PC centric and playing on phones while Im the one using the consoles the most.

Kids dont give a fuck, what percentage of 12 year olds were begging their parents to buy them that new tranny murder simulator Last of Us 2?
Its adults that buy them and adults that play them. Little Jimmy is busy trolling discord channels and derping in CS GO.
Buying the new X or PS5 "for your kid" is a big fucking bag of bullshit.

All of them are interested in fortnite and minecraft, where whether they play those games on PC or Console doesn't really matter to them. I noticed roblox is also very popular so that may lean them towards PC.
Also, mobile games aren't games.

 

[Kem0sabe]

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/phil-spencer-well-see-more-xbox-hardware-in-the-future/

In terms of future hardware, absolutely I think we’re going to see more console hardware down the road. Just like in video, just like in music, it’s not that streaming has cut off device innovation. I think we’ll continue to see that and that’s absolutely what we’re planning for.

We’re about putting the player at the center. It’s not about the device in the middle anymore. You see that in every other form of media: My TV is with me wherever I go, my music is with me wherever I go. I’m in control of the experience and I think gaming is going through that same transformation.

If you’re a Game Pass subscriber, you can play your games on your Xbox, your PC, or on Android via streaming. One subscription gives you access to your catalog and community wherever you go.

 

[DalekFlay]

They're going to talk about discs, purchases and running on local hardware all the way up until those things fall below an acceptable write-off level and then they won't talk about them anymore.

 

[IDtenT]

Press X for BBC.
Press S to spit on LWC.

 

[Markman]

Back compat tested

 

[DalekFlay]

Back compat tested

Just watched this and it doesn't seem like great news to me. I am not trying to sound like a console basher... I think they're amazing hardware for the money! However games like Hitman 1 still not being able to keep 60fps locked at the same PC-medium-ish settings is kind of telling. Same for Sekiro and others in that video. Yes it's 1800p and higher, obviously that's a big ask, but they're trying to tell people 4k60 will be more the norm for NEW games developed for these machines, and yet they can't get Hitman 1 running at 4k60 at medium settings? Granted it's not using quite the full optimizations of the Series X according to the video, but it's still a red flag I think.

To be clear: not a red flag on the console's value, which is great. A red flag on 4k60 as a thing on next-gen hardware in general, since the Series X is the most powerful machine and struggles to provide it on 5 year old games. I'd guess to provide the best visual fidelity console versions will again resort to 30fps pretty quickly after the crossgen period is over, or offer 1440p60 and 4k30 modes.

 

[Cromwell]

or offer 1440p60

I take that since I currently play everything in 1080. Fuck 4k until I have my oled tv which will take a while.

 

[DalekFlay]

I take that since I currently play everything in 1080. Fuck 4k until I have my oled tv which will take a while.

Yeah, I have a 1440p monitor and have also used nVidia DSR to play at 2880p, "5k," and as long as the 1440p game has good anti-aliasing I don't think the visual difference is that insane. I mean obviously it's a little crisper, and textures look a little sharper, but it's diminishing returns to a large degree. On a TV sitting further away, I would guess this is even more true. HOWEVER... a lot of games have shitty anti-aliasing solutions, and a higher resolution is hugely beneficial in those games (Dishonored for example).

 

[Konjad]

Back compat tested

Just watched this and it doesn't seem like great news to me. I am not trying to sound like a console basher... I think they're amazing hardware for the money! However games like Hitman 1 still not being able to keep 60fps locked at the same PC-medium-ish settings is kind of telling. Same for Sekiro and others in that video. Yes it's 1800p and higher, obviously that's a big ask, but they're trying to tell people 4k60 will be more the norm for NEW games developed for these machines, and yet they can't get Hitman 1 running at 4k60 at medium settings? Granted it's not using quite the full optimizations of the Series X according to the video, but it's still a red flag I think.

To be clear: not a red flag on the console's value, which is great. A red flag on 4k60 as a thing on next-gen hardware in general, since the Series X is the most powerful machine and struggles to provide it on 5 year old games. I'd guess to provide the best visual fidelity console versions will again resort to 30fps pretty quickly after the crossgen period is over, or offer 1440p60 and 4k30 modes.

4k supersampled, remember. Next gen consoles are not "native" 4k, but rather half of that (or even quarter - at full hd) supersampled to 4k. This requires much less performance than "native" 4k.

 

[Cromwell]

4k supersampled, remember. Next gen consoles are not "native" 4k, but rather half of that (or even quarter at full hd) supersampled to 4k. This requires much less performance than "native" 4k.

from the foundry video a few posts above the series X uses native 4k. but I could be wrong.

 

[Konjad]

4k supersampled, remember. Next gen consoles are not "native" 4k, but rather half of that (or even quarter at full hd) supersampled to 4k. This requires much less performance than "native" 4k.

from the foundry video a few posts above the series X uses native 4k. but I could be wrong.

Old games will (probably) aim at native 4k, I guess, why not. I was speaking of the new games with RTX and shieet that would not be able to run at native 4k 60 FPS. In the end it's up to developers, so no doubt there will be 4k 60 FPS games, but probably less demanding indie/platforming games etc, whereas all titles with "next gen" graphics will be supersampled.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

The One X had native AAA 4k games. 4k HDR will be the norm with these new boxes.

 

[DalekFlay]

My understanding from watching Digital Foundry and others is that most games upscale from 1440pish or use checkerboard rendering to some degree, even on the One X. I'm sure there are native 4k ones, but it seems rare. And when they are native 4k, they're 30fps of course. Again this is my understanding from their videos, I do not own any console.

As devs start wanting to add in next-gen effects and detail I'd guess 1440p and 30fps become common. Every console gen developers eventually choose looks over performance, because they think it sells more.

 

[Markman]

One X already does native 4k in alot of titles. There is no checkerboarding or other shit.
If it cant pull it off it just scales down resolution. Its still 30 fps in most cases but its 4k30 and is amazing value for 350 euros. Keep in mind its 3 years old now.

This back compat testing results is just Series X bruteforcing with no optimization. Still not a single "optimized for Series X" title is tested yet.
Microsoft says more than 50 new and +40 already released games will be optimized till the end of this year.
Thats almost 100 titles running at 4k60 or close to it just in 2020.

Still think its amazing value for 500 bucks, if you put it in comparison with upcoming 3070 thats also 500 bucks it wins at performance per $ ratio by a mile. You get a complete fast gaming device vs a single computer component.

As a side note, being in alpha insider ring got to check out new UI and the store for the last few weeks on my One X and its improved by a large margin.
Main UI is way more responsive and while the store is redesigned to look more like Xbox app store on PC and is 10x faster. Good job on that one.

 

[Norfleet]

Just watched this and it doesn't seem like great news to me. I am not trying to sound like a console basher... I think they're amazing hardware for the money!

They are, and that's why they REALLY don't like it when you buy the hardware only and then install Linux on it and don't play games. The hardware is sold at a loss and they attempt to recoup this in game sales, a process you blow a hole through when you turn it into a cheap webserver and coin miner. This is why console manufacturers attempt to stop you from misusing their hardware for unintended purposes, whereas companies like NVidia and AMD don't try to stop you at all when you use a video card to mine for coins instead of playing games

 

[Azdul]

The hardware is sold at a loss and they attempt to recoup this in game sales, a process you blow a hole through when you turn it into a cheap webserver and coin miner.

Hardware is not sold at a loss during most of the console life. Or in case of PS4 or Nintendo consoles - every hardware unit sold makes a small profit even at launch.

Scale of production, and redundancies accounting for chip defects means that actual cost of production is low.

On PC market you cannot sell the same chip for 5 years - and it means that costs of R&D and prices are higher. Nvidia wouldn't be able to sell Tegra 1 on today's market - but it still can sell this chip to Nintendo, and Nintendo can sell Switch for 299$.

PC market is also risky, because you cannot sell broken hardware. Around 65% of Switch joycons or 80% of original X360 mainboards will break within a year - and you cannot sell such parts on the market where people have a choice.

 

[DalekFlay]

One X already does native 4k in alot of titles. There is no checkerboarding or other shit.
If it cant pull it off it just scales down resolution. Its still 30 fps in most cases but its 4k30 and is amazing value for 350 euros. Keep in mind its 3 years old now.

I think these terms can be misleading and it's hard as a layman to know the truth. Digital Foundry for example will often say "native 4k presentation" and then later in the video casually mention the "checkerboard rendering artifacts." I'm not denying there are some native 4k games though, I think Red Dead 2 is famously one of them (though at 30hz and PC medium-low settings). That's kind of a point on its own though... which is better, 4k native at 30fps and lower settings, or 1440p at 60fps with maybe higher settings? I know which one I'd pick.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

80% of original X360 mainboards will break within a year - and you cannot sell such parts on the market where people have a choice.

The early 360's nuking themselves was the same issue as nvidias bumpgate. I had to bake two seperate GPU generations to get the solder reflow.

 

[Lutte]

One can only wonder how much pollution we generated because of those crappy lead free solders, mandated for the sake of 'ecology'. Thank satan for the EU.

 

[Markman]

One X already does native 4k in alot of titles. There is no checkerboarding or other shit.
If it cant pull it off it just scales down resolution. Its still 30 fps in most cases but its 4k30 and is amazing value for 350 euros. Keep in mind its 3 years old now.

I think these terms can be misleading and it's hard as a layman to know the truth. Digital Foundry for example will often say "native 4k presentation" and then later in the video casually mention the "checkerboard rendering artifacts." I'm not denying there are some native 4k games though, I think Red Dead 2 is famously one of them (though at 30hz and PC medium-low settings). That's kind of a point on its own though... which is better, 4k native at 30fps and lower settings, or 1440p at 60fps with maybe higher settings? I know which one I'd pick.

One X games dont use checkerboarding, PS4 Pro versions do. Its 4k or dynamic scaling.

New gen seems more focused at frames over resolution so probably most games on new consoles will have graphics/performance options.
You go again with either/or PC. See it as a complement to the PC.

In other news, Jeff Grubb did a cold boot test of SeX. In his preview he did comment "you shoudnt game in 2020 without an SSD" and this little video describes it perfectly. What a difference going from 5400 rpm to a nvme drive. In comparison it takes One X like a minute to start from cold boot.

 

[abija]

Motherfuckers, ssds were already common when they launched current gen. Now suddenly you shouldn't game without one?

 

[DalekFlay]

Motherfuckers, ssds were already common when they launched current gen. Now suddenly you shouldn't game without one?

Now that consoles have caught up developers will count on having on, and they'll be minimum requirements on PC soon as a result. Which is good.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Motherfuckers, ssds were already common when they launched current gen. Now suddenly you shouldn't game without one?

All my games are installed on SSD's. (i've got about 4 rubber banded together in my case).

By far the biggest upgrade for these new boxes.

 

[Taxnomore]

They will become minimal requirements, but clearly not on this gen. The new consoles hardware is not powerful enough to make it a requirement, merely a large improvement on load times which are still going to be manageable in the foreseeable future on a HDD.

Do _not_ overestimate SSD.

 

[abija]

All my games are installed on SSD's. (i've got about 4 rubber banded together in my case).
By far the biggest upgrade for these new boxes.

Was pointing out the sheer hypocrisy. Current gen should have had ssds already even if the cheapest/shittiest ones...