The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

[The Decline]

Yay, now Sonyfags won't be missing out on Ninja Theory's latest steaming pile.

 

[Azdul]

Former PlayStation exec calls exclusivity the ‘Achilles’ heel’ of blockbuster games

Former PlayStation executive Shawn Layden has suggested the platform holder will need to consider releasing more games on PC in future, in order to cover the huge budgets for its first-party blockbusters.

The future of console platform exclusives has become a hot topic in the games industry recently, after Microsoft announced plans to bring four games to PlayStation 5, and Sony became the latest company to announce a wave of job cuts following lower-than-expected financial results.

Both Xbox and PlayStation’s biggest hits of 2024 so far – Palworld and Helldivers 2 – have also been fuelled mostly by PC game sales.

Shawn Layden, who during a 30-year career at Sony served as CEO of SIE America and chairman of Worldwide Studios, commented on the future of console exclusives in a new interview with GamesBeat.

“When your costs for a game exceed $200 million, exclusivity is your Achilles’ heel,” he said. “It reduces your addressable market. Particularly when you’re in the world of live service gaming or free-to-play. Another platform is just another way of opening the funnel, getting more people in.

“In a free-to-play world, as we know, 95% percent of those people will never spend a nickel. The business is all about conversion. You have to improve your odds by cracking the funnel open. Helldivers 2 has shown that for PlayStation, coming out on PC at the same time. Again, you get that funnel wider. You get more people in.”

Single-player games aren’t facing the same pressure to release on multiple platforms, Layden said, “but if you’re spending $250 million, you want to be able to sell it to as many people as possible, even if it’s just 10% more.

“The global installed base for consoles–if you go back to the PS1 and everything else stacked up there, wherever in time you look at it, the cumulative consoles out there never gets over 250 million. It just doesn’t.

“The dollars have gone up over time. But I look at that and see that we’re just taking more money from the same people. That happened during the pandemic, which made a lot of companies overinvest. Look at our numbers going up! We have to chase that rocket!”

Layden, who is now advising companies such as Tencent and Readygg, said he believes the industry isn’t doing enough to get “non-console people” into console gaming.

“We’re not going to attract them by doing more of the shit we’re doing now. If 95% of the world doesn’t want to play Call of Duty, Fortnite, and Grand Theft Auto, is the industry just going to make more Call of Duty, Fortnite and Grand Theft Auto? That’s not going to get you anybody else.”

Source: VGC

Thing is, more PC ports means fewer PlayStations will be sold.

Let's assume I like one of Playstation exclusives.

• I won't buy 'outdated' PS5 because PS5Pro will be released this year - 0$ for Sony.
• I will buy PS5 just for that one game - ~0$ for Sony - because with attachment ratio of 1 - they are more or less breaking even.
• If I would buy PC port - +15$ for Sony.

It's a 4 year old console. Anyone who is a target market for 70$ games already has one.

 

[911 Jumper]

 

[Caim]

Already expecting two kinds of mods:

- Crank up the golf theme of Joel's death
- Fat Geralt is actually dressed like Geralt

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Former PlayStation exec calls exclusivity the ‘Achilles’ heel’ of blockbuster games

Former PlayStation executive Shawn Layden has suggested the platform holder will need to consider releasing more games on PC in future, in order to cover the huge budgets for its first-party blockbusters.

The future of console platform exclusives has become a hot topic in the games industry recently, after Microsoft announced plans to bring four games to PlayStation 5, and Sony became the latest company to announce a wave of job cuts following lower-than-expected financial results.

Both Xbox and PlayStation’s biggest hits of 2024 so far – Palworld and Helldivers 2 – have also been fuelled mostly by PC game sales.

Shawn Layden, who during a 30-year career at Sony served as CEO of SIE America and chairman of Worldwide Studios, commented on the future of console exclusives in a new interview with GamesBeat.

“When your costs for a game exceed $200 million, exclusivity is your Achilles’ heel,” he said. “It reduces your addressable market. Particularly when you’re in the world of live service gaming or free-to-play. Another platform is just another way of opening the funnel, getting more people in.

“In a free-to-play world, as we know, 95% percent of those people will never spend a nickel. The business is all about conversion. You have to improve your odds by cracking the funnel open. Helldivers 2 has shown that for PlayStation, coming out on PC at the same time. Again, you get that funnel wider. You get more people in.”

Single-player games aren’t facing the same pressure to release on multiple platforms, Layden said, “but if you’re spending $250 million, you want to be able to sell it to as many people as possible, even if it’s just 10% more.

“The global installed base for consoles–if you go back to the PS1 and everything else stacked up there, wherever in time you look at it, the cumulative consoles out there never gets over 250 million. It just doesn’t.

“The dollars have gone up over time. But I look at that and see that we’re just taking more money from the same people. That happened during the pandemic, which made a lot of companies overinvest. Look at our numbers going up! We have to chase that rocket!”

Layden, who is now advising companies such as Tencent and Readygg, said he believes the industry isn’t doing enough to get “non-console people” into console gaming.

“We’re not going to attract them by doing more of the shit we’re doing now. If 95% of the world doesn’t want to play Call of Duty, Fortnite, and Grand Theft Auto, is the industry just going to make more Call of Duty, Fortnite and Grand Theft Auto? That’s not going to get you anybody else.”

Source: VGC

Thing is, more PC ports means fewer PlayStations will be sold.

This is also partly Sony being fucking stupid. Sony could be spending far less on stuff like their Spider-Man games, and still sell just as much. They could do their Spider-Man game with vastly simpler and cheaper models if the whole thing was cel shaded. They could have it be cel shaded, throw in those onomatopoeia sound effects, and it’d cost them way less while also look far cooler than the quite frankly fucking ugly looking highly detailed character models they’ve got.

It’s almost a surprise Sony didn’t have them shift to doing something that looked like Into the Spider-Verse after that movie came out and was a hit for them.

 

[Ezekiel]

This is also partly Sony being fucking stupid. Sony could be spending far less on stuff like their Spider-Man games, and still sell just as much. They could do their Spider-Man game with vastly simpler and cheaper models if the whole thing was cel shaded. They could have it be cel shaded, throw in those onomatopoeia sound effects, and it’d cost them way less while also look far cooler than the quite frankly fucking ugly looking highly detailed character models they’ve got.

It’s almost a surprise Sony didn’t have them shift to doing something that looked like Into the Spider-Verse after that movie came out and was a hit for them.

Highly detailed, but no foreheads.

No forehead.

No forehead.

No forehead.

No ear lobes.

No forehead.

 

[ferratilis]

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/peter-moore-last-console-generation/

Former Xbox boss Peter Moore says Gen Z may reject new consoles in favor of smartphones and PCs​

News
By Tyler Wilde
published 1 day ago
"Why do I need to spend four or 500 bucks on a bespoke piece of gaming hardware when I've got my smartphone, or I got my PC or my Mac?"

Peter Moore displaying his famous (and apparently real) Halo 2 release date tattoo at E3 2004. (Image credit: Susan Goldman/Bloomberg via Getty Images)
Have we reached the "last console generation"? Former Xbox boss Peter Moore doesn't claim to know for sure, but he thinks it's a question that current Xbox head Phil Spencer must be asking, and he doesn't sound very confident that consoles in their current form will last much longer.
Moore himself was asking the same question in 2007—a couple years after the Xbox 360 released—he said in a recent interview with IGN. Back then, Microsoft was wondering whether TVs would start to "come with chips that can play games," said Moore, or if a PC gaming renaissance was afoot (it was), and whether or not a new console generation was worth "hemorrhaging" cash to get into people's homes on the hope that game sales and Xbox Live subscriptions made up for it.

Microsoft obviously didn't stop making new Xboxes, but a lot has changed since then. Moore's observations on the habits of today's gamers are pretty typical—the kids these days want "snack-size stuff" like TikTok videos, he theorized, or they want to "gorge" on the limitless well of streaming TV, and single-purpose devices are old-fashioned—but he did characterize the past decade-and-a-half in a way I hadn't heard before: Entertainment has moved from the living room to the bedroom, said Moore, with the gaming audience leaving communal TV screens in favor of smartphones and PCs.
"And what are we doing? Well, we're not in the living room anymore," said Moore. "We're back in the bedroom with our YouTube influencers, our TikTok creators, and it's about content on demand … Gen Z is coming through and they're going, 'Why do I need to spend four or 500 bucks on a bespoke piece of gaming hardware when I've got my smartphone, or I got my PC or my Mac, and I can do things there with a pretty decent controller?'"
When the next set of consoles release, gamers might say, "I don't need this, times are tough," said Moore, reiterating that phones and PCs offer "plenty of games to play." That's especially true now that so many former console exclusive games now release on PC.
Moore wouldn't go so far as to predict that the end is definitely nigh for consoles. Silicon Valley is full of uncertainty, he said, noting the recent barrage of tech and games industry layoffs and the development of generative AI, but he thinks that the end of consoles is "a real serious question" being asked by Microsoft and Sony, among others.
"What I'm saying is the questions are being asked, as they have been for the last 20 years," said Moore. "Are we ready to gird our loins financially for battle and all of the cost of development, silicon development? What is it that PS6 can do that PS5 can't that would make people jump from PS5, or same with Xbox, same with Switch, right? God forbid it's just incremental.
"And I think that the companies are also looking at that. What can we do to extend this life cycle? And then if you're Microsoft and you're Phil Spencer, you've got Satya Nadella coming in and saying, alright, what is the future here and how does this play into the biggest strategy of cloud with Azure, with AI? What are we doing with AI game development? How do you make your games faster, cheaper, with less people? These are all the questions I think are being asked."

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Moore underestimates the sheepishness and brand loyalty fever of the console peasantry.

 

[Kem0sabe]

https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/peter-moore-last-console-generation/

Former Xbox boss Peter Moore says Gen Z may reject new consoles in favor of smartphones and PCs​

News
By Tyler Wilde
published 1 day ago
"Why do I need to spend four or 500 bucks on a bespoke piece of gaming hardware when I've got my smartphone, or I got my PC or my Mac?"

Peter Moore displaying his famous (and apparently real) Halo 2 release date tattoo at E3 2004. (Image credit: Susan Goldman/Bloomberg via Getty Images)
Have we reached the "last console generation"? Former Xbox boss Peter Moore doesn't claim to know for sure, but he thinks it's a question that current Xbox head Phil Spencer must be asking, and he doesn't sound very confident that consoles in their current form will last much longer.
Moore himself was asking the same question in 2007—a couple years after the Xbox 360 released—he said in a recent interview with IGN. Back then, Microsoft was wondering whether TVs would start to "come with chips that can play games," said Moore, or if a PC gaming renaissance was afoot (it was), and whether or not a new console generation was worth "hemorrhaging" cash to get into people's homes on the hope that game sales and Xbox Live subscriptions made up for it.

Microsoft obviously didn't stop making new Xboxes, but a lot has changed since then. Moore's observations on the habits of today's gamers are pretty typical—the kids these days want "snack-size stuff" like TikTok videos, he theorized, or they want to "gorge" on the limitless well of streaming TV, and single-purpose devices are old-fashioned—but he did characterize the past decade-and-a-half in a way I hadn't heard before: Entertainment has moved from the living room to the bedroom, said Moore, with the gaming audience leaving communal TV screens in favor of smartphones and PCs.
"And what are we doing? Well, we're not in the living room anymore," said Moore. "We're back in the bedroom with our YouTube influencers, our TikTok creators, and it's about content on demand … Gen Z is coming through and they're going, 'Why do I need to spend four or 500 bucks on a bespoke piece of gaming hardware when I've got my smartphone, or I got my PC or my Mac, and I can do things there with a pretty decent controller?'"
When the next set of consoles release, gamers might say, "I don't need this, times are tough," said Moore, reiterating that phones and PCs offer "plenty of games to play." That's especially true now that so many former console exclusive games now release on PC.
Moore wouldn't go so far as to predict that the end is definitely nigh for consoles. Silicon Valley is full of uncertainty, he said, noting the recent barrage of tech and games industry layoffs and the development of generative AI, but he thinks that the end of consoles is "a real serious question" being asked by Microsoft and Sony, among others.
"What I'm saying is the questions are being asked, as they have been for the last 20 years," said Moore. "Are we ready to gird our loins financially for battle and all of the cost of development, silicon development? What is it that PS6 can do that PS5 can't that would make people jump from PS5, or same with Xbox, same with Switch, right? God forbid it's just incremental.
"And I think that the companies are also looking at that. What can we do to extend this life cycle? And then if you're Microsoft and you're Phil Spencer, you've got Satya Nadella coming in and saying, alright, what is the future here and how does this play into the biggest strategy of cloud with Azure, with AI? What are we doing with AI game development? How do you make your games faster, cheaper, with less people? These are all the questions I think are being asked."

Xbox execs were so cringe, from getting Xbox tattoos to dancing awkwardly on stage.

 

[tritosine2k]

"Why do I need to spend four or 500 bucks on a bespoke piece of gaming hardware when I've got my smartphone, or I got my PC or my Mac?"

I got my PC

 

[flyingjohn]

This is also partly Sony being fucking stupid. Sony could be spending far less on stuff like their Spider-Man games,

Marvel licensing fees are insane + marketing means no, you couldn't. You are looking at almost a 50+ million licensing fee and other stuff they have to pay to Marvel.

 

[deuxhero]

IIRC the Insomniac leak alludes to Disney/Marvel setting a minimum budget as part of the licensing conditions.

 

[Caim]

"Why do I need to spend four or 500 bucks on a bespoke piece of gaming hardware when I've got my smartphone, or I got my PC or my Mac?"

I got my PC

If a game can't run on a $500 PC then it's not worth playing.

 

[deuxhero]

500 is a little low since just MB+PSU+RAM+Storage+case will run you just under 300 now. 600 is totally doable though.

 

[911 Jumper]

This is also partly Sony being fucking stupid. Sony could be spending far less on stuff like their Spider-Man games, and still sell just as much. They could do their Spider-Man game with vastly simpler and cheaper models if the whole thing was cel shaded. They could have it be cel shaded, throw in those onomatopoeia sound effects, and it’d cost them way less while also look far cooler than the quite frankly fucking ugly looking highly detailed character models they’ve got.

It’s almost a surprise Sony didn’t have them shift to doing something that looked like Into the Spider-Verse after that movie came out and was a hit for them.

One of the notable things about Sony's western shift / Californication of the Playstation platform is the way Sony has shunned games with stylised graphics. All of Sony's big games now rely on high end visuals to draw people in. Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Sucker Punch were making stylised videogame-y video games during the PS2 era. Now all three make “cinematic experience” video games, which will always be more expensive to make than say a cel-shaded 3D platformer

Post-PS2 Sony gradually dumped the quirky stylised games that existed during the PS1 and PS2 eras to bridge the gaps between movies, TV and video games. Problem is this strategy is ridiculously expensive and time consuming – as Sony is finding out.

Ideally, I'd like to see Japan regain control of the PlayStation platform so that it becomes Japan-centric again in terms of output. PlayStation currently feels like an American console platform, another Xbox even. You'd be forgiven for thinking PlayStation is owned by an American company. Even the physical console itself looks as if it was designed in the West.

I think Sony HQ in Japan have realised the current strategy is unsustainable. It also wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo's success with an underpowered hardware platform and a library that's pretty much full of games w/ stylised graphics that sell in the tens of millions has forced Sony to reconsider its strategy for PlayStation.

 

[tritosine2k]

Post-PS2 Sony gradually dumped the quirky stylised games that existed during the PS1 and PS2 eras to bridge the gaps between movies, TV and video games.

Failed pivot to mobile and blu-ray as media both contributed to this. No optical media down the road will be huge change. Some publisher even said they will update game worlds without restart.

 

[soutaiseiriron]

how did sony try to pivot to mobile? the PSP? the xperia play? how does having a new disc format change the gamedev strategy of all their subsidiaries?
ive read like 3 of your comments at this point and none of them make any sense. it's like a chatbot hallucinating word salad garbage

 

[tritosine2k]

PC topics are elsewhere, it's obvious you have some sort of cognitive dissonance why even feign interest in console.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Sony never tried pivoting to mobile. They tried entering the handheld business, and by all accounts it seems the PSP did pretty well. But they got beat by Nintendo both times in the handheld market, their handhelds didn’t preform as well as their home consoles, and the mobile business was already shifting to cellphones and tables when they released the Vita.

I don’t even see why anyone would think Blu-ray had anything to do with Sony moving away from more stylized video games. What’s the connection?

 

[Abu Antar]

They moved away from a certain type of games once they started getting more Westerners in control. PS3 still had fun games, like Puppeteer, Tokyo Jungle, and more.

As for PSP and Vita, the systems are great, but they should have used cartridges, or something else. Not whatever their formats were called. UMD and something else.

Vita also had insanely priced memory cards.

Imo, Sony oushed themselves out of the portable market.

 

[tritosine2k]

Yeah right...

Sony wants 20 percent of new games to be on smartphones by 2025, and last August it announced a new PlayStation Studios Mobile Division

To try and carve out its own audience on mobile, Sony appears first to be making a Horizon MMO for smartphones with help from NCSOFT, which it recently announced a "strategic partnership" with.

You have such 35 GB twin stick shooters because blu ray

&
because they are late on mobile...

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

They moved away from a certain type of games once they started getting more Westerners in control. PS3 still had fun games, like Puppeteer, Tokyo Jungle, and more.

As for PSP and Vita, the systems are great, but they should have used cartridges, or something else. Not whatever their formats were called. UMD and something else.

Vita also had insanely priced memory cards.

Imo, Sony oushed themselves out of the portable market.

Vita did use cartridges.

I did forget about those overpriced memory cards.

From a 2011 article.

The 4GB memory card will cost $29.99; the 8GB will cost $44.99; the 16GB will cost $69.99; and the 32GB memory card will cost $119.99, almost half the price of the PlayStation Vita itself. The 3G-enabled console will retail for $299, while the Wi-Fi-only version will retail for $249.

Sony was treating those memory cards like studios tread DLC, and ended up killing their handheld division doing that.

 

[soutaiseiriron]

vita flopped because it was not a nintendo console that has pokemon and mario which are more difficult to make into flops than hits, so it had second place by default. then mobile games ate up a huge chunk of interest on top of that.
only thing that would have had a chance of saving it in global sales is if it had a GTA game again, but that wasn't going to happen anyways.

 

[deuxhero]

Sony never tried pivoting to mobile

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Sony never tried pivoting to mobile

That is not a Sony (as in the video game division) pivoting to mobile. That’s just Sony the hardware manufacturer releasing a cellphone with a PlayStation controller layout so it’s easier to play Jave games.