Community The RPG Codex's Top 101 PC RPGs (With User Reviews!)

[Open Path]

I'm sorry, I don't care how much of an elitist snob you are about ARPGs, the idea that Kingdom Come: Deliverance is 30 spots above Diablo 2 is absolute lunacy.

In what sense Diablo 2 is superior to KC: D? Causing index finger injuries?


You should be more upset with Icewind Dale 2 stealing -again!!- the throne of popamole to Diablos.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Didn't the last list have Dark Heart of Uukrul in it?

 

[North Gibraltarian Dog]

Didn't the last list have Dark Heart of Uukrul in it?

Yeah it was in 69 place with 11 points by 4 users. In this poll, it's in position 119 with 8 points and 3 voters. 1 simple vote more giving it 3 points and would have risen to place 98. In fact from Tiranny in 95 position, to FRUA in 125 could be only a voter of difference.

 

[Fenix]

replaced it with...

...that wonderful sound of gold piles dropping on the ground.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Didn't the last list have Dark Heart of Uukrul in it?

Yeah it was in 69 place with 11 points by 4 users. In this poll, it's in position 119 with 8 points and 3 voters. 1 simple vote more giving it 3 points and would have risen to place 98. In fact from Tiranny in 95 position, to FRUA in 125 could be only a voter of difference.

Your Vote Really Counts: Codex Edition

 

[samuraigaiden]

Sounds like 2019 will go down as a bad year for polls and referendums

 

[DJOGamer PT]

the idea that Kingdom Come: Deliverance is 30 spots above Diablo 2 is absolute lunacy

The idea that we should discuss and compare a popamole game with an action game in a cRPG list is absolute lunacy.

How is KCD a popamole?

Maybe he doesn't have very good taste. Who knows?

 

[prengle]

ok who in the absolute name of fuck voted for oblivion. show yourselves. that game was absolute fucking corporate garbage, a complete step back in almost every single way from morrowind and you know it. even skyrim is better because at least it provides me with the modding framework for a decent fucking husbando simulator. i havent even peeked at the rest of the list because i cant comprehend how the fuck oblivibun somehow crept into the bottom spot like a goddamn hookworm. this site is full of boomer grognards who (rightfully) hate the shit out of it, how the fuck did it get on the list? did someone spike the water supply?? jesus

 

[Benthran]

ok who in the absolute name of fuck voted for oblivion.

They most likely voted it for shits and giggles.

 

[Modron]

ok who in the absolute name of fuck voted for oblivion. show yourselves. that game was absolute fucking corporate garbage, a complete step back in almost every single way from morrowind and you know it. even skyrim is better because at least it provides me with the modding framework for a decent fucking husbando simulator. i havent even peeked at the rest of the list because i cant comprehend how the fuck oblivibun somehow crept into the bottom spot like a goddamn hookworm. this site is full of boomer grognards who (rightfully) hate the shit out of it, how the fuck did it get on the list? did someone spike the water supply?? jesus

Just go to the voting thread and search it for oblivion and you'll see all it took was about 7 people rating it a 5 to get it on the list. Edit: said it before but the voting really should have gone on longer so the contributions of trolls and PoE tards might have been reduced.

 

[Fishy]

I probably wouldn't put Oblivion in a top 100 (it's the TES game I've played the least, apart from Redguard which I never tried) but it still has more of a rightful claim to be there than Diablo or Dark Souls which imho aren't RPGs. And I absolutely adore Dark Souls. That said, that's also the beauty of a user-vote list, it's not just the stuff you expect.

 

[Grauken]

I think everybody expected Dark Souls to end up in the list given how many fans it has on the codex

 

[Skdursh]

You couldn't find somebody who actually enjoyed Kingdom Come: Deliverance to write the review?

 

[Max Edge]

You couldn't find somebody who actually enjoyed Kingdom Come: Deliverance to write the review?

We don't enjoy games, we are here for complaining.

 

[Smejki]

Gothic 3 vs Risen

 

[Mark Richard]

Fortunately what The Witcher 3 does well, it does REALLY well

What the game does well, however, it does really well.

Woah. After I finished I looked up other Witcher 3 reviews and found this. It's as if I straight up stole your line and made it better.

Though I wrote my review after MpuMngwana's, mine appears before his on the article. Now everyone's going to think he copied me. That worked out nicely.

 

[Sigourn]

I still think this poll is flawed, e.g. 7 votes aren't representative of anything and thus can hardly be called "RPG Codex's Top 101". The following games were nominated by 50 or more users.

• 190. Planescape: Torment
• 171. Fallout: A Post Nuclear Role Playing Game
• 151. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
• 148. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
• 143. Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
• 132. Fallout 2: A Post Nuclear Role Playing Games
• 118. Fallout: New Vegas
• 111. Deus Ex
• 98. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
• 94. Gothic II
• 87. Age of Decadence
• 72. Pathfinder: Kingmaker
• 71. Dark Souls
• 71. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords
• 68. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
• 67. Baldur's Gate
• 64. Underrail
• 59. Gothic
• 55. Jagged Alliance 2
• 54. Neverwinter Nights 2

All released after 1997. So maybe I'm not wrong when I say proper RPGs spawned with Fallout. :D

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I still think this poll is flawed, e.g. 7 votes aren't representative of anything and thus can hardly be called "RPG Codex's Top 101". The following games were nominated by 50 or more users.

• 190. Planescape: Torment
• 171. Fallout: A Post Nuclear Role Playing Game
• 151. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
• 148. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
• 143. Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
• 132. Fallout 2: A Post Nuclear Role Playing Games
• 118. Fallout: New Vegas
• 111. Deus Ex
• 98. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
• 94. Gothic II
• 87. Age of Decadence
• 72. Pathfinder: Kingmaker
• 71. Dark Souls
• 71. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords
• 68. The Witcher III: Wild Hunt
• 67. Baldur's Gate
• 64. Underrail
• 59. Gothic
• 55. Jagged Alliance 2
• 54. Neverwinter Nights 2

All released after 1997. So maybe I'm not wrong when I say proper RPGs spawned with Fallout. :D

It's already been well-established that a large portion of the Codex is obsessed with a handful of games from the period 1997-2004, while generally refusing to play anything made before 1998 despite the much larger number of classic RPGs that can be found earlier in the Golden Age, which is why your list of 20 games includes 13 from 1997-2004 (and 9 of the top 10!) while lacking a single earlier game. Moreover, they are generally uninterested in any later games unless they are intentional throwbacks or sequels to those few from the period 1997-2004, hence the inclusion of Fallout: New Vegas (a sequel to the setting of Fallout and Fallout 2, despite the changed gameplay, and the only game in your top 10 from outside 1997-2004), Age of Decadence (inspired by Fallout in many respects), Pathfinder: Kingmaker ("inspired by classic isometric computer RPGs like Baldur's Gate, Fallout and Arcanum"), Underrail (Fallout yet again), and Neverwinter Nights 2 (from 2006, so only slightly later, and considered superior to the 2002 version of Neverwinter Nights). The only exceptions are Dark Souls and The Witcher III, which are the most popular recent CRPGs that don't fall into the 'casual' Skyrim category.

 

[ItsChon]

I wish I had the capacity to ignore the dated nature of games "before 1998, but I'm afraid it's just not in me. Someone claiming that they don't enjoy a game because they couldn't get past its poor and/or dated graphics/sound/etc is a valid excuse in my book, regardless of how many things the game does right.

 

[Lemming42]

People complaining about graphics are literal children, but a lot of 80s/early 90s games really are killed by user interfaces and nightmarish controls.

The reality, though, is that when you finally manage to get to grips with the UI and master the controls, a lot of pre-Fallout RPGs just aren't as good as Fallout and its spiritual successors. Many are worth at least one playthrough, some are even great and belong higher in the Codex list than shit like The fucking Witcher and Mass Effect (lol). But in the end, I'd replay Fallout for the trillionth time before replaying Magic Candle, or Wasteland, or Realms of Arkania, or Darklands, or literally any Might & Magic game, or literally any Gold Box game, etc. There's exceptions to this rule, but by and large, the best post-Fallout RPGs are better than the best pre-Fallout RPGs.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I wish I had the capacity to ignore the dated nature of games "before 1998, but I'm afraid it's just not in me. Someone claiming that they don't enjoy a game because they couldn't get past its poor and/or dated graphics/sound/etc is a valid excuse in my book, regardless of how many things the game does right.

I understand that bad/dated graphics can be an obstacle to enjoying a game, but this is not something limited to games made before 1998. Unlike 2D graphics, 3D graphics worsen over time as technology improves, and several of the games on Sigourn's list have 3D graphics that might have been impressive at the time but have aged terribly in the following two decades. Moreover, many of the older classic CRPGs that had extremely limited graphics in their original version (e.g. Wizardry with a monochrome wireframe dungeon) have had various ports over the years that considerably improved their graphics.

Many people make similar complaints about user interfaces when defending their reluctance to play older games, and again it is true that many older games do have clunky interfaces but this is true of many later games as well. Dungeon Master in 1987 pioneered user interface improvements that were widely copied over the years, but their adoption was far from universal, and the average quality of CRPG interfaces after increasing for some years eventually declined, in large part (but not exclusively) due to consolization. As with dated graphics, clunky user interfaces plague several games on Sigourn's list, including Codex favorites Fallout and Fallout 2.

I think that many Codexers who haven't been willing to play earlier CRPGs would greatly enjoy them if only they gave them a chance, even if this meant playing later ports for the improved graphics and/or interfaces.

 

[ItsChon]

I think that many Codexers who haven't been willing to play earlier CRPGs would greatly enjoy them if only they gave them a chance, even if this meant playing later ports for the improved graphics and/or interfaces.

I think you're right about this actually, considering the vast majority of Codexers manage to put up with games that I can barely handle for 15 minutes. I was thinking of this from my POV, but it certainly is hypocritical of some Codexers to praise certain UI and graphic abominations while refusing to give Goldbox games a fair shake.

At the very least, I am consistent with my decline.

 

[Mark Richard]

I wish I had the capacity to ignore the dated nature of games "before 1998, but I'm afraid it's just not in me. Someone claiming that they don't enjoy a game because they couldn't get past its poor and/or dated graphics/sound/etc is a valid excuse in my book, regardless of how many things the game does right.

Every so often I come across something in Felipe Pepe's CRPG book with an amazing concept like Fate: Gates of Dawn, a massive 1991 German blobber in which the player controls up to four parties simultaneously. What's its nearest relation today, that dismal phone game Swag and Sorcery? The biggest 'problem' is the further back you go, the less standardised game design becomes, requiring an upfront commitment to learn the rules. That's asking a lot these days. I envy folk who have the fortitude and time to wade through a 300 page manual just to get to the fun.

 

[PrK]

The biggest 'problem' is the further back you go, the less standardised game design becomes, requiring an upfront commitment to learn the rules. That's asking a lot these days. I envy folk who have the fortitude and time to wade through a 300 page manual just to get to the fun.

I believe this is the biggest culprit. For many people interested in RPGs the UI or graphics aren't the problem, they just can't be arsed to RTFM to be able to play the game. A shame, really.

 

[Sigourn]

People complaining about graphics are literal children, but a lot of 80s/early 90s games really are killed by user interfaces and nightmarish controls.

The reality, though, is that when you finally manage to get to grips with the UI and master the controls, a lot of pre-Fallout RPGs just aren't as good as Fallout and its spiritual successors. Many are worth at least one playthrough, some are even great and belong higher in the Codex list than shit like The fucking Witcher and Mass Effect (lol). But in the end, I'd replay Fallout for the trillionth time before replaying Magic Candle, or Wasteland, or Realms of Arkania, or Darklands, or literally any Might & Magic game, or literally any Gold Box game, etc. There's exceptions to this rule, but by and large, the best post-Fallout RPGs are better than the best pre-Fallout RPGs.

New vs old cRPGs assessment aside (which I'm inclined to agree with), it's not just that 80s/early cRPGs "have bad graphics", technologically speaking. It's that most of them are fucking ugly in a way console RPGs really aren't. They simply aren't aesthetically pleasing. They are absolute eyesores. This goes for what Zed Duke of Banville said as well: sure, a lot of 3D games look bad nowadays, but it's only the really awful bloom-abusing games (like Oblivion) that manage to become so ugly you can't ignore it, something that doesn't happen with Thief: The Dark Project for instance, or Deus Ex, or Gothic.

Fallout's user interface may not be good, and Gothic's may be terrible (in my opinion), but at least they are intuitive for the most part. Older cRPGs rely a lot on hotkeys, which explains why older Codexers tend to hate the lack of hotkeys in modern RPGs. But I'm the opposite: I grew up with a mouse and a keyboard, and that's how I play my games; hotkeys are secondary to me except for the most necessary ones (inventory, journal, map). A cRPG that has no mouse is a big "no thanks" in my book, I'm hardwired through experience to click on stuff I want to use. And these older cRPGs tend to use hotkeys for everything. I'm willing to put up with older console RPGs (assuming they are good) because the joystick makes navigating the interface very intuitive and simple. I can deal with the worst console RPG interfaces (looking at you, Dragon Quest) with arrows and two buttons (accept/cancel) but I can't deal with the hotkey-heavy interfaces of older cRPGs. Especially because these games don't offer what I'm looking for in fully fledged RPGs, which is less emphasis on combat and more on quests and story.

I believe this is the biggest culprit. For many people interested in RPGs the UI or graphics aren't the problem, they just can't be arsed to RTFM to be able to play the game. A shame, really.

Yet another stripe on the tiger, but what the hell: not having to RTFM is a good thing about nowadays games. It means you get to understand everything you need to understand as you play the game. No need to read info you don't need to know just yet. The issue with modern games is that you can't toggle off said tutorials off, but the tutorials themselves are a good thing.

A game that requires me to RTFM to know what the fuck am I doing is a game I'm not playing unless I'm really interested in it, period. Unsurprisingly, none of the games in that time period you mentioned (1997 and on) require me to RTFM, because they are intuitive enough.