The Thaumaturge - supernatural RPG set in early 20th century Warsaw from Seven: The Days Long Gone devs

[Infinitron]

 

[koyota]

Also does anyone knows about other games with "schizo" protagonists? I only know about Disco Elysium and Slay the Princess, those kind of voices in your head are very entertaining, especially if involved in gameplay and narrative.
That's not enough tbh, there should be at least few voices that sometimes also interact between themselves.

If you want a walking sim with some combat mixed in:
The answer Reddit would give you: Hellblade

 

[AndrewCC]

The game lets you basically brainwash your sister, removing her Flaw (Ambition), and probably turning her from a feminist, pants-wearing girlboss, into a traditional 1900s Polish housewife. So some of you might like it.

Spoiler

I couldn't do it, and I definitely could not let that jew Ariel get it. Rabi Feldman is a cool guy though, I like the fat fuck.

 

[luj1]

Guess what, this game sucks even if you are a big SJW. There's a lot to praise about the game's art design and atmosphere, but fundamentally the writing is garbage, the combat is weak and the game is more of a point and click adventure than an RPG. And not a very good point and click adventure either.

Pretty much

/thread

 

[BruceVC]

The game lets you basically brainwash your sister, removing her Flaw (Ambition), and probably turning her from a feminist, pants-wearing girlboss, into a traditional 1900s Polish housewife. So some of you might like it.

Spoiler

I couldn't do it, and I definitely could not let that jew Ariel get it. Rabi Feldman is a cool guy though, I like the fat fuck.

Sounds excellent, day 1 purchase for sure

 

[Tyranicon]

What are you doing step-thaumaturge?!?

 

[Fedora Master]

News???

 

[Raghar]

150 pages in, there's sure a lot of complaining, but only one bloke actually played the thing.

I tried it, and...
In first few minutes there is a Polish agenda.
Then game happens for unknown reason in Georgia, but it looks like Polish countryside.
And then we have that Russian character appearing out of nowhere.
And then just half hour later we see complete different writing for that Russian character.

So, it's hot Polish shit.

 

[Lord_Potato]

150 pages in, there's sure a lot of complaining, but only one bloke actually played the thing.

I tried it, and...
In first few minutes there is a Polish agenda.

LOL

Then game happens for unknown reason in Georgia, but it looks like Polish countryside.

Too many hills and mountains. I didn't feel the Transcaucasian atmosphere in the prologue, but it sure weren't the Polish flatlands.

And then we have that Russian character appearing out of nowhere.

Yes, a Russian Orthodox monk appearing out of nowhere in the Russian Empire. Crazy, right?

And then just half hour later we see complete different writing for that Russian character.

?

So, it's hot Polish shit.

I'd love to see some quality Czech rpg to be released. Kingdom Come was cool but it was but a one game, years pass and still there's no Sequel Come.

I am looking forward to Felvidek, but even if it proves to be great, it's a Slovak game, and since your divorce in 1992 you Czechs cannot claim credit.

 

[Harthwain]

In first few minutes there is a Polish agenda.
Then game happens for unknown reason in Georgia, but it looks like Polish countryside.
And then we have that Russian character appearing out of nowhere.
And then just half hour later we see complete different writing for that Russian character.

Could you elaborate? You got me curious. How is Georgia looking like Polish countryside? And what is wrong with a Russian character appearing in Georgia when Georgia was part of the Russian Empire since 19th century (and the game takes place in 20th century)?

 

[Raghar]

https://www.mediastorehouse.co.uk/p/731/polish-village-november-1886-15466494.jpg.webp
Polish village by Alfred Kowalski Wierusz.

And this is what I saw in first few scenes in the game. Crap mud, shit, snow. (and people dressed better than Russian peasants)

But my point was. Why Georgia? It wasn't even Rasputin area. They could easily travel trough Baltic sea by ship to capital, and there was zero reason for the story to have Georgia. Of course if authors wanted to create a story where a young man goes to random area of Russia to find Stalin's grandparents, makes cheerful Stalin grandparents distrustful of foreigners especially of that asshole, and thus cause Stalin to be a grumpy and distrustful. Yea that would be nice story, the responsible for Russia occupying half Poland was... Poland. Add to that decent gameplay, and graphic that allows to play it on low end PC and it would be possibly decent game.

 

[Harthwain]

https://www.mediastorehouse.co.uk/p/731/polish-village-november-1886-15466494.jpg.webp
Polish village by Alfred Kowalski Wierusz.

And this is what I saw in first few scenes in the game. Crap mud, shit, snow. (and people dressed better than Russian peasants)

Honestly, I wouldn't be able to tell from this the difference between pretty much any 19th century village in Europe. It is that generic.

But my point was. Why Georgia?

Uh, why the game says you - the player - are going to Georgia?

 

[Raghar]

https://www.mediastorehouse.co.uk/p/731/polish-village-november-1886-15466494.jpg.webp
Polish village by Alfred Kowalski Wierusz.

And this is what I saw in first few scenes in the game. Crap mud, shit, snow. (and people dressed better than Russian peasants)

Honestly, I wouldn't be able to tell from this the difference between pretty much any 19th century village in Europe. It is that generic.

But my point was. Why Georgia?

Uh, why the game says you - the player - are going to Georgia?

Dunno, I was skipping cutscenes. In game dialogues, they said he was trying to find random Russian in Paris, and whatever until he caught with him in Georgia.
BTW that would mean he's quite rich boy. Cost of travel trough Europe was HIGH, and frankly all necessary paper stamps were hard to get. This was pre-war era, tensions were high, and French nearly started WWI few years before start of the game.

 

[Lord_Potato]

But my point was. Why Georgia?

Uh, why the game says you - the player - are going to Georgia?

The main character suffers from an illness of the soul - a result of him being a Thaumaturge and committing acts that weakened the connection to his salutor. He tried many different therapies but they all failed. So in his desperation he searches for a mad Russian monk Rasputin who it said to be a healer of souls. He finally finds him in Georgia, where Rasputin comes to heal a village that seems to be descending into madness.

 

[Twiglard]

The game lets you basically brainwash your sister, removing her Flaw (Ambition), and probably turning her from a feminist, pants-wearing girlboss, into a traditional 1900s Polish housewife. So some of you might like it.

Having removed her flaw in order to gobble up the last pokemon, I didn't see her acting as a housewife. The main character complained that she's grown complacent and dull and that's the extent of it.

While the game is of the banalshitboring variety, it has a nice vibe to itself and I feel like following the quest arrow some more just to partake of it. Apparently there's no talk of any DLCs or expansions.

 

[Lord_Potato]

While the game is of the banalshitboring variety, it has a nice vibe to itself and I feel like following the quest arrow some more just to partake of it. Apparently there's no talk of any DLCs or expansions.

And even worse there seems to be no talk of adding Polish dubbing if the game becomes successful.

 

[processdaemon]

I finished the game and while I wouldn't say it was bad it was a bit underwhelming. I'll try to give my thoughts without too many spoilers below.

Storywise the main plot is serviceable enough, although it felt a bit disjointed and I did have to push myself to finish Act 3 as it didn't feel like there was enough of a hook to get me invested at the start of the chapter. It suffers from the same issues as most alt history does for me in that it has moments that feel like fan fiction, but that's a personal gripe and alt history fans might not care. I was also pretty pissed off when it was revealed that the father only sent Wictor away to save Wictor's arse from the hangman's noose for shooting a man because it retroactively makes Wictor seem like a whiny idiot for being so hung up on it, which would be fine if you were RPing him that way but it kind of undermines whatever character you've got in mind for him since it's introduced 20+hours into the game. The side quests that aren't specifically related to characters seemed utterly pointless and unless you really need the experience points I would avoid them, I think it the fact I took a fairly completionist approach to them to start with ruined the pacing a bit for me.

Someone better versed in the history of the region would be better off speaking to how realistic it is, but for those concerned that you can only go down the revolutionary route that's not the case; in fact, at the end I accidentally ended up as the pet torturer for the Tsar in the epilogue for my first run of Act 3 despite mostly siding with the revolutionaries throughout and having the head of the Okhrana buried in my garden.

The characters are mostly pretty bland but there were a few that I found interesting, particularly Konieczkin and Rofe (neither of whom got very happy endings in my game). Wanda never failed to annoy the shit out of me in every scene she was in and I regretted not trying to dob her in to the Russians at the start of Act 1, although I don't know if that actually would have gotten rid of her. Bar the issue I mentioned in the spoilers above Wictor is pretty likeable and I thought he made for a decent protagonist.

With regard to C&C it's pretty linear for the prologue and the first Act but improves as the game goes on, and by the end of Act 3 I was seeing a decent number of the choices I'd made earlier in the game reflected in the way characters interacted with me. I reloaded my save from the start of Act 3 to play out the second route available to me (there was a third that I was locked out of due to feeding my Pride flaw too much) and there were appreciable differences between the paths. It was also clear that there were parts where things could have gone slightly differently had I made different choices earlier in the game. Unless the third path that I missed out on is radically different you do still mostly visit the same places in the final Act, but with different goals and conclusions, which was good enough for me but YMMV. With regard to the Flaws I went back and forth on whether I liked that choosing Proud answers eventually resulted in the game taking away control and forcing you to do certain things in Act 3, but I think it makes sense overall given how much of an emphasis there is on Flaws eventually dominating people's personalities.

Combat got better as the game went on but Challenging just isn't hard enough to be the highest difficulty setting. There were only two fights in the whole game where I died more than once and I was in no way optimised for combat (I usually had about 16 of my points held back in case I needed to assign them to something for story reasons). The very hardest fight did have me thinking carefully every turn about whether I should focus on delaying, direct damage, focus or DOT so clearly they're capable of designing more difficult fights, it's just a pity that the vast majority of the other enemies felt like easily dispatched trash mobs in comparison.

The salutor fights are also disappointing; I'm assuming that there was some sort of limitation that forced them to only allow us to fight humanoid enemies but it's pretty galling to see the cool salutor models floating in the background while you fight a bunch of goons. If they chose to do it this way rather than being forced by money or time constraints it's one of the most baffling design decisions I've seen recently in a video game.

In terms of design the salutor models are fantastic and I wish we had more of them, I would pay for a mythology based polishmon game where I get to collect a bunch of them. The level design starts strong but fizzles out towards the end when things start to feel a bit repetitive and samey, but to be honest that's not that big a priority to me unless it's offensively bad so I didn't mind too much.

Overall I haven't changed my mind from my earlier comment saying that I wouldn't recommend it for people who want a more traditional cRPG fare, but it's a fair to decent point and click adventure with some branching paths and adequate if easy combat. If you're on the fence about buying it I'd wait until it's on sale, but if you've already bought it and were put off by the prologue and early reviews I do think it's worth trying if there's nothing else in your backlog that you're really looking forward to.

 

[fantadomat]

Hmmm just finished the game....and i don't really regret of playing it. If anything it feels like a missed opportunity to make a great game.

I was really impressed by the level design and the art in it. It really feels like being in a living city with its natural mix of slums and nice buildings. Feels really real. Shame it wasn't used to its fullest,a good example of being done well is the serial murder quests in the slums.

The gameplay generally is about running around,spaming right mouse button and beating the shit of people in turnbased combat. The game is mainly a narrative driven one.

The combat is turn base and bit weird till you get used to it,you have two turns,your own attack and a magic attack from a ghost. Ghost have plenty of different skills but once you get used to the combat it becomes pretty easy,i finished the game without loosing a single fight on hardest,learned that it is the hardest near the end lol. It is a time per action based combat,like Septerra Core. Thus making it all about using fast attacks. In general it is not a bad combat,i didn't dislike.

The other aspect of the game is the narrative thing,which both hit and miss. There is some pretty good shit in it and some butthurt libtard commie shit. It is one of the very few instances i enjoyed the growth of the protagonist. He starts as a butthurt milenial cuck and you could end up making a decent man out of him. Also i did enjoyed the diversity shit,since it was not a netflix diversity but actual real history one. Didn't see a single negro in the game. Also the jew cunt had a jewish nose lol. Also your sister is represented realistically,especially near the end . By the end i felt like the whole thing feels natural and realistic conclusion. That said at times the writing feels like feminist shit,but in generally is passable. Another thing i dislike is that you get robbed out of choices near the end. Should have had more dialogue options in the final chapter,ones that depend on your build and skills,not just force you in to a single choice based on how you feed your flaw.

Oh and the setting is pretty interesting. Tho i would have like to see more supernatural investigations side quests.

 

[Rean]

Here's my disclaimer.
I really dig the general premise of the semi-historical setting, gritty characters and atmosphere and I am trying to actually play it, so I'll refrain from shitting on the game too much, but I'll say this:

Being forced to read a sensitivity disclaimer about the story, alongside tacked-on diversity assurances, IMMEDIATELY upon starting this (story) game brought on a wave of massive revulsion.

If you feel like you're making something you're not proud of, either don't fucking make it or shut up and do your best. Don't shit on your own product, you fucking absolute retards.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Thank you for the reviews. Nice atmosphere and art but uninspired pokemon combat with a mediocre narrative. It's about as expected. I will not buy this.

 

[Lord_Potato]

If you feel like you're making something you're not proud of, either don't fucking make it or shut up and do your best. Don't shit on your own product, you fucking absolute retards.

They didn't shit on anything.

The warning was there for the oversensitive snowflakes. You know, people like you, only from the other side of the spectrum.

 

[Rean]

They didn't shit on anything.

My post must have been too inflammatory for the Pole Defense Squad.

They did shit on it though. It's obvious they have zero faith in their product and are terrified of their diversity masters, otherwise they wouldn't need disclaimers.
You would have an inherent understanding of this if you weren't a fucking schizo that springs up to whiteknight every.single.Polish.product.

You know, people like you, only from the other side of the spectrum.

I see. Since you're on the other side of the spectrum, they must have written the disclaimer for you then. I just want to play games.

 

[Lord_Potato]

They didn't shit on anything.

My post must have been too inflammatory for the Pole Defense Squad.

No, it was simply misguided.

They did shit on it though. It's obvious they have zero faith in their product and are terrified of their diversity masters, otherwise they wouldn't need disclaimers.
You would have an inherent understanding of this if you weren't a fucking schizo that springs up to whiteknight every.single.Polish.product.

They wanted to avoid braindead criticism like "you're racist because characters in your game are racist!" which seems to be quite popular among the game journos and other Twitterati.

You know, people like you, only from the other side of the spectrum.

I see. Since you're on the other side of the spectrum, they must have written the disclaimer for you then. I just want to play games.

Nah, in this case I'm in the middle. I'm not offended by the game's depiction of 'certain attitudes that are rightly considered unacceptable today', because I don't want history to be sanitized, like Ubisoft does. But I'm also not offended by the sheer existence of the trigger warning. Because I know that a lot of people, especially in the West, are utter morons unable to grasp the subtle difference between the art and the artist, and many of them work in the gaming press or like to stir shit online. So I understand why the devs wanted to protect themselves from such individuals.

I prefer to have a trigger warning and the 'questionable' content, than lack of both.

 

[Infinitron]

3/5 https://www.eurogamer.net/the-thaumaturge-review-a-refreshingly-different-polish-rpg

The Thaumaturge review - a refreshingly different Polish RPG​

A sight Warsaw eyes.

Image credit: Eurogamer / Fool's Theory

Lurking behind a dated exterior is a limited but sophisticated RPG with a unique setting and some memorable new ideas.

I think it counts for a lot when a role-playing game comes along and it's different. There are so many games that try to do what other games do, they end up struggling to stand out - especially when they don't have the resources larger projects do. But with Thaumaturge, developer Fool's Theory (the Polish studio remaking The Witcher 1 for CD Projekt Red, by the way) has played it smart. It's focused on the differences and not been afraid to leave other things out, and it means that behind Thaumaturge's admittedly dated exterior, there are some genuinely interesting things here.

There's a lot about The Thaumaturge I admire. Let's take the setting and the subject matter first, because it also helps explain the game. Do you know what a Thaumaturge is? I doubt it - I didn't either. It's a term taken from our real world to mean a person who performs miracles or wonders. Specifically, in this game's case, a Thaumaturge is capable of reading people's thoughts (and influencing them), seeing those thoughts imprinted on objects, and befriending demons. And within that description are the game's big ideas.

Really, The Thaumaturge is a detective game, because nearly everything you're asked to do in the game involves going to an area and looking for clues that have emotional imprints on, and finding enough of them to draw a conclusion about the case in question. You then present this to someone, there's maybe a punch-up, and then you do it all again. Broadly, that's the loop of the game. There's no looting, no trading, none of that - in fact there's no inventory at all. It's quite a breezy experience because of it.

Demons are a key part of all of this. They're thematically what empowers you as a Thaumaturge, each Thaumaturge supposedly having one, a demon - and some having more than one. They fight with you, they empower you outside of combat, and they're what gives you an edge. They're a bit like Pokémon, only warped and twisted versions of them (they're all pulled from folklore and their backgrounds make for some fascinating reading in the game's codex). Your character Wiktor often talks to his demon, Upyr, not that you can understand what it says, though Wiktor apparently can. It's his lifelong friend and has been with him since he was a boy.

Demons have a variety of abilities to use in combat that you can queue up alongside your attacks. Combat is turn-based and revolves around a timeline idea, which I haven't seen before, not in the way it's used here. When you fight, you'll see a timeline above the battlefield showing when attacks will happen - and sorry for the sudden lurch into mechanics but it feels a bit like this in the game too, when it's all thrown at you at once.

You'll want to get your hits in first but your fastest attacks are your weakest, so the question is, what will you do? The answer lies in levelling up and unlocking more abilities and more modifiers for them, which you can switch around at will. Perhaps you want to slow enemy attacks or break them, or maybe you want to deplete their Focus gauge and open them up for devastating strikes - there's a number of different ideas to build around. It's engaging; never particularly challenging, but a pleasant thought exercise.

Image credit: Eurogamer / Fool's Theory
The skill tree where you unlock new abilities also has a double-use outside of combat. The four skill paths - Heart, Mind, Deed, and Word - determine what clues you can clean from the world around you, providing you have a high enough score. They also enable you to use certain options in dialogue when you're in a 'manipulate' moment. You'll get so many points you can usually do everything, but later in the game, some were off-limits. It was particularly annoying when it was due to a skill tree halting my progress because I hadn't collected a certain demon, but then I did ignore plenty of side quests.

Finding demons usually occurs in major storied moments, then, but I didn't catch them all. Thematically, discovering demons is tied to Flaws, which are personality traits like pride, which is a nice idea. Once you lure one out by encouraging someone's Flaw, you have to fight a kind of boss battle and then you can capture it. Pride is the Flaw you begin with as Wiktor, and you can use it in dialogue, too - the more you use it, the stronger it gets. You can take Flaws from other characters as well, not that they become usable in dialogue, from what I can tell. Flaws are a nice idea but feel inconsistently used to me.

Detour over; I want to get back to the game's setting because it's another particular part of The Thaumaturge I admire. This is turn of the century Poland - the other century, the 20th one - and Warsaw specifically, a setting we see hardly at all. We hardly see it in the real-world, either, because so much was destroyed in World War 2, so it's a really valuable lens into history. It feels authentic and personal, too, this being made by a Polish developer, and you can feel the desire to show off this great city coming through. At times it's like a playable history lesson, as you collect historic detritus like magazine covers and view old photographs and artwork. There's a particularly nice sketchbook-type effect at points of interest where you see an artist's interpretation of people eating doughnuts at the time, for example - apparently they were very popular. The attention to detail in this regard is superb.

Image credit: Fool's Theory / Eurogamer
The setting also provides the politically charged backdrop of Russian occupied Poland for the story, and some famous and notorious characters from history to play with, such as Tsar Nicholas II Romonov, the last Russian Emperor, and Rasputin. Rasputin is actually a close friend of yours in the game - you being Wiktor Szulski, a wayward member of the Polish upper class, returning home after many years following the sudden and mysterious murder of your father, who you had a difficult relationship with. Did it have anything to do with Thaumaturgy?

The breadcrumb trail will take you all around Warsaw and introduce you to a cast of lively characters, some of which are stereotypically off-the-wall - like your childhood friend Abaurycy, who's now an aspiring crime lord but also a poet and runs a pub - though others like your twin sister Ligia are more considered. She, for instance, longs to work at a university but is stifled by the attitudes towards women at the time. There's, quietly, a progressive heart in this game, and the women are great examples of it.

It speaks to a quiet kind of sophistication that's in The Thaumaturge, which might not be immediately apparent but gradually comes through. It's there in the way the game probes people's thoughts, emotionally and philosophically, and wonders what drives them - writing that I found endlessly interesting to read despite being asked to do it over and over again. It's there in the respectful portrayal of Jewish culture in Warsaw, which winds its way into the main story, and it's there in observations of socio-economic difficulties of the time, and the care taken over portraying them.

I also want to congratulate whoever decided Wiktor should be a calm character and not someone who huffs and puffs and shouts and screams, because his easy going charm makes him a pleasure to be around. I sat all the way through the credits just so I could shout out Maciej Nawrocki's voice work for precisely this reason. It reminds me a lot of the Castlevania Netflix series and the way Trevor Belmont is voiced, by Richard Armitage, there - and that's as high a compliment as I can think of! I wish more games took this approach. It's lovely to see a cast filled with Polish actors, too - homegrown talent whose accents are not only legit but can properly pronounce the names and terms the script calls for. It's all refreshingly different to hear.

Image credit: Eurogamer / Fool's Theory
Look, there are obvious limitations to The Thaumaturge. You don't really do all that much in it, besides go somewhere, look around, read, then fight (and I'm still not sure how believable it is to have a magician be an excellent physical fighter too) and when you start branching out into side-quests and ancillary objectives, this is exacerbated. Traipsing back and forth across Warsaw to do the same thing over and over again, however much Fool's Theory tries to dress it differently, quickly becomes a chore. Worse, it starts to eat into the enjoyment of the more carefully authored main missions in the game. Which is a shame, because there are some genuinely interesting ones, either shining a light on important political attitudes at the time, or opening little windows through which to see Warsaw as it once was.

There's also no escaping the general aesthetic of the game, which is unfortunately dated, depending heavily on a few character models reused over and over. Having said that, the city feels populated and lively, and where conversations matter a spirited attempt at cinematic presentation has been made. It feels like it's a case of making the best use of limited resources, but it's lacking nonetheless. There's a long way to go to reach the kind of presentation CD Projekt Red will want with the remake of The Witcher 1.

That aside, there's lots of nice stuff here. The Thaumaturge isn't overbearing or demanding, and I've spent a pleasant 20 hours or so with it. It's, gently, a persuasive little package. More importantly, I'll remember it. I'll remember all the many ways it's not quite like anything else I've played. There's enough here to mark Fool's Theory as a studio to watch.

A copy of The Thaumaturge was provided for review by 11 bit Studios.

 

[notpl]

They didn't shit on anything.

My post must have been too inflammatory for the Pole Defense Squad.

No, it was simply misguided.

They did shit on it though. It's obvious they have zero faith in their product and are terrified of their diversity masters, otherwise they wouldn't need disclaimers.
You would have an inherent understanding of this if you weren't a fucking schizo that springs up to whiteknight every.single.Polish.product.

They wanted to avoid braindead criticism like "you're racist because characters in your game are racist!" which seems to be quite popular among the game journos and other Twitterati.

You know, people like you, only from the other side of the spectrum.

I see. Since you're on the other side of the spectrum, they must have written the disclaimer for you then. I just want to play games.

Nah, in this case I'm in the middle. I'm not offended by the game's depiction of 'certain attitudes that are rightly considered unacceptable today', because I don't want history to be sanitized, like Ubisoft does. But I'm also not offended by the sheer existence of the trigger warning. Because I know that a lot of people, especially in the West, are utter morons unable to grasp the subtle difference between the art and the artist, and many of them work in the gaming press or like to stir shit online. So I understand why the devs wanted to protect themselves from such individuals.

I prefer to have a trigger warning and the 'questionable' content, than lack of both.

You ever notice that everyone who drives slower than you is a granny, and everyone who drives faster than you is a maniac?