Ultima The Ultima Series Discussion Thread

[KeighnMcDeath]

Eh? Whatcha mean in SI?

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Eh? Whatcha mean in SI?

The monks just bring you back to life right where you died. I died like 3 times in the Knight's Test dungeon but it didn't even matter. I'd just resume the fight right where I left off with full health.

 

[Cael]

Eh? Whatcha mean in SI?

The monks just bring you back to life right where you died. I died like 3 times in the Knight's Test dungeon but it didn't even matter. I'd just resume the fight right where I left off with full health.

EA started getting its claws deep into Ultima during SI. So, expect a bit of a decline. However, the more linear path of the adventure means that the storyline is better. Just don't expect the random craziness that you get in BG like baking bread, making bandages from thread, etc.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Ultima 7 is a game about running around towns in circles

 

[Comte_II]

Yep more of an adventure game then a rpg

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Interesting video here. He goes into detail about every single different version of Ultima 4, including fan-made renditions such as xu4 and Virtue of Humility. He doesn't have much of interest to say about the game itself, except claiming that he needed to grind at the shrine of humility for 5+ hours to get to level 8, something I never experienced myself in U4 (though I've only played it once). The most interesting part of the video is at the very end, where he talks about how the virtues are terrible because he was treated poorly and used by his friends. I wasn't expecting such an outpouring of personal salt and autism at the very end of an analytical video like this, but it was pretty funny. The dude should stop being such a bitch.

...It's only after I started writing this that I looked at the video's thumbnail and noticed that this nigga is a furry. Explains a lot.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

And yet speedrunners will show you how to smash this game in no time flat with max spells/reagents, gear, etc.

The best part is using the skull of mondain to destroy everything. Pity in some versions it disappears after 1 use.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Pity in some versions it disappears after 1 use.

That video showed me that there's no real point in playing any version other than DOS, patched to include the music. Even xu4 makes you use ugly-sounding MIDI music with no option to change the soundfont as you can in DOSBox Staging.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

DAMN LONG VID.

That must be a more modern Xu4. I'll see jf i can get it to work. He really shits on Joshua Steeles sprites and no mention that Steele did plan to finish hus 64x64 pixel versions.

As to him trying to be virtuous and having bums live with him etc... DERP! DUH!

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Exult appears to have a bug with the quicksave hotkey where there's a rare chance of the screen turning black and white, the game crashing, and your save being irreparably corrupted.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Serpent Isle feels so constrained by its keyword system. Its implementation is even worse than Black Gate's. I'm not even halfway through the game and there have already been so many times where I wanted to ask somebody about a particular topic, but I've just been unable to. I wanted to ask Mosh and Columna about the magic comb, but you can't without asking specific characters at specific times in the story. I wanted to offer the blood moss I collected to the Moonshade apothecary, but you can't until you talk to the provisioner and discover that he's Erstam's son, and then ask him about Erstam, at which point he will offer to give a password in exchange for the blood moss. I wanted to ask Stefano about the stockings he stole, or Columna's plans to kill him, but I couldn't. I wanted to ask any of the mages about where to find the serpent teeth, but I couldn't. This game isn't linear in a good way, where your goal and direction is always clear. Instead, you're dropped into a big map (to generate the illusion of non-linearity), but you have to go through such a specific chain of actions which are so unclear that the game is practically unplayable without consorting the cluebook or a walkthrough. I honestly don't see how Ultima 8 could be worse than this. The decline is fucking real.

 

[Cael]

Serpent Isle feels so constrained by its keyword system. Its implementation is even worse than Black Gate's. I'm not even halfway through the game and there have already been so many times where I wanted to ask somebody about a particular topic, but I've just been unable to. I wanted to ask Mosh and Columna about the magic comb, but you can't without asking specific characters at specific times in the story. I wanted to offer the blood moss I collected to the Moonshade apothecary, but you can't until you talk to the provisioner and discover that he's Erstam's son, and then ask him about Erstam, at which point he will offer to give a password in exchange for the blood moss. I wanted to ask Stefano about the stockings he stole, or Columna's plans to kill him, but I couldn't. I wanted to ask any of the mages about where to find the serpent teeth, but I couldn't. This game isn't linear in a good way, where your goal and direction is always clear. Instead, you're dropped into a big map (to generate the illusion of non-linearity), but you have to go through such a specific chain of actions which are so unclear that the game is practically unplayable without consorting the cluebook or a walkthrough. I honestly don't see how Ultima 8 could be worse than this. The decline is fucking real.

You only get that if you try to sequence break. I don't recall that kind of thing ever being a problem when you are actually trying to follow the clues given to you instead of trying to shortcut it with prior knowledge... Then again, haven't played it in a very long time, so I may not forgotten things. I actually played BG more than SI as I liked the open world feel of BG.

And yes, Pagan is a LOT worse.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Are you using Exult for SI + TSS? Yeah, SI seems even more rigid in structure for when and what you can do. Just toss open world out the window. I haven't messed with it in ages though and never properly finishing the avatar saga first before this saga made me just sort of check out the engine and then shrug. 1/2 assed attempts by me. I get far more engrossed in the Age of Darkness and those games are just too damn simple.

Again, I would have loved a proper redone reboot of the series with many modern features.

I really think a countdown timer option would be keen before each games apocalypse endings and/or join the dark side. I guess that scope was/is too complex for Ultima.

 

[Cael]

Are you using Exult for SI + TSS? Yeah, SI seems even more rigid in structure for when and what you can do. Just toss open world out the window. I haven't messed with it in ages though and never properly finishing the avatar saga first before this saga made me just sort of check out the engine and then shrug. 1/2 assed attempts by me. I get far more engrossed in the Age of Darkness and those games are just too damn simple.

Again, I would have loved a proper redone reboot of the series with many modern features.

I really think a countdown timer option would be keen before each games apocalypse endings and/or join the dark side. I guess that scope was/is too complex for Ultima.

The charm of Ultima is that there is NO apocalypse timer. You get to explore the open world as much as you want, as long as you want. Stop trying to make everything into that fucking decline that is Bloatfinder: Bugmaker

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Never played PF. There was a pseudo timer in Questron where entire towns were destroyed. Now, I'd have to check if it popped up before or after Ultima 1 but they were similar.

Modern games with a time limit I don't really know how well implemented. Maybe the last I played was fallout 1-2. I know 1-5 is pretty open world from the get go.

6... you start stuck in the castle.
7 you seem stuck in town (at least snes version)
SI... i don't remember
8... the controls irked the hell out of me.
9... never had it until GOG so it is a mystery.

Perhaps the last 4 open up to open world. When I play these type of games I try to see what you can't do or where you can't go based on what you can do and can go at various stages. Many JRPGS I have played locks you into the story. Post U5... I feel you are confined a bit. Probably most troublesome would be interface and UI esp since mouse is introduced (unless you played mac, aniga, etc for older games).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

From Here, I found a link to a patch mod for PC ultima 4 to be able to finish the game Solo

Whoops... that was dragon rider patch. Here is the SOLOPATCH

 

[LarryTyphoid]

The paragon of Compassion, Honor, and Humility, ladies and gentlemen.

Why did they give the Avatar dialogue in this game? They did that in the Underworld games, but there, the Avatar's dialogue options were eloquent, articulate, and intelligent. Here he's a fucking clown.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

You only get that if you try to sequence break. I don't recall that kind of thing ever being a problem when you are actually trying to follow the clues given to you instead of trying to shortcut it with prior knowledge..

Note that I'm currently on my first playthrough of SI, and any sequence breaking is unintentional. But even then, the previous Ultima games let you utilize prior knowledge all the time, and that was one of my favorite parts. I loved being able to carry over your knowledge of the mantras from 4 into 5 and 6. Those games even reward you for it. Characters will act impressed if you already know the mantras - there's a part in U6 where you can give someone a mantra for some gold. In Serpent Isle, you're going to read Erstam's memoirs before you even start playing. So before I even began, I knew that Erstam had the serpent's jaw. Yet I'm incapable of asking him about it - I have to ask him about teleportation, then ask his servant about teleportation, before I have the option of bringing up the jaw to Erstam. So why'd I even read the damn manual if me and my character aren't working with the same knowledge? Is this guy really my "avatar" if he doesn't know shit that I do?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Indeed I do.

 

[Daemongar]

Why did they give the Avatar dialogue in this game? They did that in the Underworld games, but there, the Avatar's dialogue options were eloquent, articulate, and intelligent. Here he's a fucking clown.

Playing through SI (the Serpent Isle Fixes version) as we speak so I can comment on this. Three witches are trying to end the world and are working for the Guardian - the Avatar doesn't have to be nice. That quote in the picture is right before they try to murder him.

I did notice - most of the dialog in the Silver Seed was harsh, and fairly insulting towards the player. Not sure who wrote it, but it all had an angry tone which doesn't fit the overall narrative of U7 or SI. In a lot of ways, SI was a dark game, but having to click through dozens of lines that all say "I can't believe you don't know this already" and "Thou must be a fool to not know" is not fun. The dark monks do it, the commander does it, and the fiend does it. Ok, we get it. Stop already, but unfortunately there is no way to advance the story without clicking on these messages.

 

[Desiderius]

Why did they give the Avatar dialogue in this game? They did that in the Underworld games, but there, the Avatar's dialogue options were eloquent, articulate, and intelligent. Here he's a fucking clown.

Playing through SI (the Serpent Isle Fixes version) as we speak so I can comment on this. Three witches are trying to end the world and are working for the Guardian - the Avatar doesn't have to be nice. That quote in the picture is right before they try to murder him.

I did notice - most of the dialog in the Silver Seed was harsh, and fairly insulting towards the player. Not sure who wrote it, but it all had an angry tone which doesn't fit the overall narrative of U7 or SI. In a lot of ways, SI was a dark game, but having to click through dozens of lines that all say "I can't believe you don't know this already" and "Thou must be a fool to not know" is not fun. The dark monks do it, the commander does it, and the fiend does it. Ok, we get it. Stop already, but unfortunately there is no way to advance the story without clicking on these messages.

U7 was when Garriot turned to the dark side. The relativism of U6 was the canary in the coal mine.

The Guardian is his conscience and the writing is his rationalization for ignoring it.

 

[Daemongar]

The Guardian is his conscience and the writing is his rationalization for ignoring it.

You know I have been thinking about something similar while playing SI. I show up in Monitor, I kill tattoo gal, knights test guy, innkeeper (about 20% of the town). Then I complete quests for and save a ton of people in Fawn, Sleeping Bull and Monitor - 90% of whom will be dead soon. Then i go to Moonshade and kill Rotoluncia, make a gal ugly, save a bunch of people who my companions kill, then I'm off back to other parts.

The game really goes out of its way to paint a pretty depressing setting. They all hate the virtues, and Lord British, the land is in imbalance. So, everyone dies. Repeat in U8, where you like everyone even less, but they don't show their death, just you go around killing their gods and abandoning the people.

Then RG does interviews "Hur, in all my games, you can kill children... hur." As if he just painted the Mona Lisa or something. You are on to something.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

He was always the same baizuo, the good guy was Roe Adams III.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Based Iolo

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Lordy? Really? That's in the game? Who was writing the script?

Is combat just as bad as U7?