Ultima The Ultima Underworld I & II Thread

[Crooked Bee]

Actually, I think what makes a Warren Spector Kickstarter unlikely is that he's probably gotten too used to the kind of wages and life style that the sort of money you can raise on KS just can't buy. But maybe I'm wrong and he might be willing to do a side project of sorts on KS before he works for a AAA publisher again... Who knows.

 

[Infinitron]

Actually, I think what makes a Warren Spector Kickstarter unlikely is that he's probably gotten too used to the kind of wages and life style that the sort of money you can raise on KS just can't buy. But maybe I'm wrong and he might be willing to do a side project of sorts on KS before he works for a AAA publisher again... Who knows.

Wages and lifestyle? But he did a whole lot of nothing between Thief: Deadly Shadows and Epic Mickey. Can't have been earning that much money.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Actually, I think what makes a Warren Spector Kickstarter unlikely is that he's probably gotten too used to the kind of wages and life style that the sort of money you can raise on KS just can't buy. But maybe I'm wrong and he might be willing to do a side project of sorts on KS before he works for a AAA publisher again... Who knows.

Wages and lifestyle? But he did a whole lot of nothing between Thief: Deadly Shadows and Epic Mickey. As far as I know during that time he was living off of university lectures and such. Hardly a lavish lifestyle.

There is hope, then.

Actually, that was just a random thought I had after going through his earlier tweets today:

Pretty sure you can afford a new Cadillac even on KS wages though. We should ask Brian Fargo about it.

 

[Infinitron]

I edited my post, he actually founded Junction Point in 2005. Still it could hardly have been a highly profitable enterprise before Disney bought them in 2007.

 

[Zep Zepo]

While I love Warren, I don't think he was the designer on either of the Underworld games. I think he was more of a guiding hand to keep Blue Sky focused later on in development (on UU1) and getting them some personnel (artists I think?) on UU2.

I just don't think he's the one qualified to make/kickstart a "spiritual successor" to either of the underworlds.

Zep--

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Rats! No, I'm not really swearing. Rats keep killing me. There are brown rats, which are pretty nimble and difficult to hit at first until I pin them in a corridor, and the gray variety which poison and kill me after I win combat.

As I write this, my character is down to 2 hit points and just now unpoisoned. I am second level after killing the last gray rat who caused me to reload. I've killed some little worm like creatures with teeth that look like they belong in Stones of Arnhem, a couple spiders, a handful of rats and a gray goblin who tried pelting me with sling stones. I've had to reload numerous times and I've found trying to line up your targets just right for an axe blow the most serious challenge thus far. I have a bag of magical stones, but my paladin is not high enough level yet to cast the spells that I can form with their runes.

I met some friendly green goblins, and I rest in their lair between my explorations. I kissed their king's behind with platitudes, which led to him telling me everything important about the local area and some information about the overall quest, which seems to involve eight artifacts. I love the automap feature where I can make comments, and I do so liberally. I also like the little touches, such as the worm stew recipe I found and the letter to a loved one. The sense of mystery is welcome, such as me wondering what the hell the Silver Seed does. I want to try it out after taking it from the Silver Tree room, but I'm afraid its a one shot use and I want to go deeper into the dungeon before planting it. I suppose it resurrects me if I die, so perhaps I should put it in the Green Goblin tribal area, or perhaps wait for a friendly location further down. Don't tell me. I don't want to ruin it.

I'm armed with some leather pieces of armor, a wooden shield, and a damaged axe. I also have some minor items like candles, torches, and pieces of food like cheese. I'm ill-equipped, scared, and loving it despite the frustrations with the combat interface. This is the first game I've played since Thief (which I still have to beat) a few months back that has left me with a sense of mystery and a desire to explore every nook and cranny.

 

[Sceptic]

I want to try it out after taking it from the Silver Tree room, but I'm afraid its a one shot use

It's not. Don't be afraid to experiment. Effect may not be immediately obvious.

Not gonna spoil anything else.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Deuce Traveler,

Fond memories man. Remember getting the U1 demo with my new boxed copy of U7 (which I had to upgrade to play, voodoo memory I still hate you! )

I had to play the UU1 demo in the smallest window possible (which was REALLY DAMN SMALL) to even attempt to play. When I finally got UU1 the game I had to buy one of those ISA memory expanders (4 MEG! lol). Then I could finally maximize the "world window" to full.

Awesome game, you doing UU2 next?

Zep--

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Awesome game, you doing UU2 next?
Zep--

Yep, followed by Arx Fatalis, which has been sitting in my GOG account untouched for a few months now.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Deuce Traveler : You're familiar with the rat hierarchy in UU1. Good. Keep in mind that the spider hierarchy is the same, except that there's also a mid-tier spider known as the Wolf Spider. They're red. There's one on the first level somewhere. A lot of monsters have similar hierarchies, a good rule of thumb is, that the darker variety of a monster is more dangerous, but there are exceptions to the rule.

I'm gonna give you a few generic tips, hoping that I don't spoil anything:

# In your explorations you may have spotted a 'window' that peered out into darkness. You'll find more of them. Try checking them out once you're lower down in the Abyss.

# Flattery won't get you everywhere in the Abyss. What works for the goose, may not work for the gander.

# While brown worms (Rotworms) are pretty harmless, the green worms (Bloodworms) are pretty harmful. Be wary of them.

# The Banner of Cabirus (tattered tapestry with the Ankh sign) is a mark of civilized creatures. They hang out where the banners hang. Respect that.

# Lurkers (the green tentacle monsters in the water) are a great early source of XP, but they're also tough little bastards that won't go down without a fight. If they get the better of you, just avoid them as they're only dangerous when you're in the water or very close to it.

# That said, there are plenty of things to be discovered by swimming around, but if the screen flashes blue while you're swimming, it means you're losing health due to being a lousy swimmer.

# While lava doesn't instantly kill you on touch (like in Thief) it will burn you up eventually.

# In the case of both water and lava travel, 'alternate' means of transport are available.

# If your character build is magic-heavy, consider learning to do without it.

# Grey bats are harmless, the 'other' kind of bat is not.

# By now you should have a small collection of mantras to chant at shrines. The ones you find first are 'generic' Mantras that raise random skills, sort of. You'll find more specific mantras later on, so you might want to save up on those skill points.

# If you come across an 'upset spectre named Warren' (Get it?), leave him alone. He's a-door-able. ;-)

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Unkillable Cat

I got myself in a bit of a bind. I explored the western half of the first level, but I can't get through some locked doors to continue on and my red key doesn't work with them like it did some of the other doors. I've killed another gray goblin and a few green ones outside of friendly territory, and I noticed some odd behavior. One of the green goblins wouldn't attack me, but his buddy did. When he saw me fight back against his buddy he joined the fight against me. It makes sense, but I wonder why some will attack right away and some won't when outside the ankh-bannered areas. There is a lurker in the friendly gray goblin territory. If I attack it, will the other goblins become hostile? I like how the gray goblins explain that their kin outside the walls are hostile because they accidentally have fallen into the cold water bordering their area, and become angry after being swept downstream. I guess a cold dip from walking around half-awake at night would put me in a mood, too.

I'm taking your advice and going lurker hunting. This is for two reasons. One, I can't move on until I either find a key or find an alternate path, which means I should take to the water, which means I need to eliminate some lurkers who like to attack me when I'm swimming. Two, I can't hit a lurker when I am swimming, and I can't seem to connect with my weapon when I'm on a platform and the lurker is staring at me just under it. But I do have a sling that I haven't found all that useful and a bunch of sling stones weighing me down so I have trouble carrying more equipment. Time to use some sling stones on the lurkers and see what happens.

 

[octavius]

I found the basic "Magic Missile" spell quite effective against the Lurkers, but I played a Druid and they have more mana than Paladins. I found missile weapons too unwieldy.

There are several stairs down to level 2. One is on a ledge which you can reach by jumping over the river.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Thanks for the hints, gents. I haven't picked up a walkthrough or fan-made map yet, so your words are welcome.

 

[Sceptic]

If you pick up a walkthrough I swear I'll fly to wherever you live and kick you in the nuts. Hard.

One thing about hostility: if you right-click (or use the Look icon) on ANY NPC, human or animal, it'll tell you the state of that NPC (friendly, mellow, hostile, angry, etc). These will determine whether they will attack you on sight, if you do something to annoy them (like attacking their friends or taking their items), etc.

If you get stuck somewhere again ask here, but for the love of god don't look up a walkthrough. And guys stop giving him detailed answers

And keep posting about your adventures please, it's a joy to read.

 

[octavius]

I just recalled that a map of the first level is actually included in the documentation. But it should be even more fun to play without it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Deuce Traveler : I'm actually facing the predicament that I don't remember the exact details about the layout of the western part of the first floor, but there is a flight of stairs there that leads down to the next floor. I *think* that a 10-foot pole may come in handy there. But as has been said, there are two other stairs down to the second level, and then you can always follow the Gray Goblins down the toilet to get there. ;-)

To reach another set of stairs, you're gonna have to jump across a chasm (with water at the bottom), but I think only a running jump will cover it. Plus the door there is locked, and I think the key is on the level below. Your safest bet is a set of stairs in the far north, just a little further past where the Gray Goblins are.

EDIT: I just remembered that the northern stairs are either caved in or otherwise unusable (if they're present at all, been a LONG time since I last played UUW1), so the western stair is your best bet. There IS a way to reach it, but I can't remember exactly how.

 

[SCO]

Aaaaand this concludes Arx Fagalis. Cool game, although I felt there could have been more stuff to do on levels 6-8. Especially concerning the rat men, they are never really presented in any way other than 'here be skaven'.






also fuck those ylsides mang

Which ending did you get?

 

[Darth Roxor]

The 'best' one, I take it - serpent bitches want to kidnap Alia, but mutha appears from beyond the grave and tells them to go fuck themselves.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

One thing about hostility: if you right-click (or use the Look icon) on ANY NPC, human or animal, it'll tell you the state of that NPC (friendly, mellow, hostile, angry, etc). These will determine whether they will attack you on sight, if you do something to annoy them (like attacking their friends or taking their items), etc.

Correct, except the proper sequence of statuses in UUW1 is: Peaceful, mellow, upset and hostile. (You have no friends in the Stygian Abyss.) Stealing an item belonging to an entity (so that they can notice) will lower their status. Steal from an upset critter and that critter will immediately attack you. In other cases you may geta away with minor theft before getting attacked.

@ Deuce Traveler : Even if the 'civilized' Green Goblins are all now suddenly out for your blood, it won't change much in the endgame, you already have the two most vital things they offer you, one of those being information. IIRC there are ways to make a hostile 'faction' stop being hostile to you, of which leaving them alone for a while may be a factor.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Well, I finally found out what the Silver Seed did through a combination of an accidental fatal experiment and what the veteran RPGers like to call "reading the fucking manual". I will say it feels a bit of a cheat, though it is encouraged to use in game. I don't know what kind of time crunch I'm in, but the guy in my dreams prods me to hurry. But I've been eating and sleeping to regain health, trying carefully not to die. If I'm concerned about time, though, it makes no sense to sleep to restore my health and mana. I should not care, because I no longer have a real fear of my character dying anymore. It takes a bit off the feeling of isolation and impending doom in the game to have the Silver Seed. It's like the time I sweated combat in Bioshock, just to realize in one of the final battles that the game wouldn't let me die.

I've made a lot of progress as I've played 5 hours straight now. I retreated after a fight with some goblins earlier after I had killed them, but was left with only a couple of hit points. There was a gate I could have opened, but I didn't want to risk another battle before resting and restoring my hit points. In my explorations I returned there and found that there was the key I was looking for, but no enemies. Darn. A little courage would have saved me an hour.

Anyway, with that key I explored just about the rest of the level, killed a skeleton, and felt like a badass once I looted its corpse for a worn shortsword (which replaced my dagger) and worn chain coif. I really like this game's idea of item progression. What 5th level character in any other game would leap for joy over a plain chain coif and short sword? I found the mountain men on level 2 (don't call them dwarves) and enjoyed trying to talk to the mountain man king. You really need to save before a conversation in this game. It's easy to screw up and not be able to recover as your choices have permanent consequences. The mountain man king/lord/chief and I got along fine up until I ended the conversation with "Thank you, dwarf king". He got a bit pissy over that.

I also found the shrine and as I am 6th level I asked for a general skill increase, two magic skill increases (I can cast light now!), and three combat skill increases. I will admit I restored my game often as I kept getting 'mace, mace, unarmed' upgrades when I rely on swords. I also found scrolls that told me how to cast better defensive spells, a long jump spell, and how to get strength upgrades from the shrine, which I'll try when I level next time.

I finally found all the ingredients for the bowl of worm stew. I wisely saved my game before trying to make the stew and had to reload a few times before I could create it. The trick is to put everything in the bowl, then use the instructions that describe how to make it. I found that out by accident, as I had the use command activated on the full bowl when I meant to use the look command. When I went back to the green goblins they didn't respond in conversation in regards to the bowl, but the green goblin king asks that I poison the gray goblin king or queen. I know where a bottle of poison is thanks to a mad dwarf and me killing a few skeleton by a hard to pass door (thank you pole!) and could add it to my bowl and offer it to the gray goblins, but I'm not sure I should do this. It doesn't seem like a very Avatar thing to do. I screwed up my conversations with the gray goblins, and they won't talk to me anymore about the quest they want me to partake in either. I may just press on and see if the stew can be used elsewhere.

 

[octavius]

So you haven't learnt any of the individual mantras yet?

Regarding the goblins' quest, I assume you mean killing that spider for them? AFAIK the goblins never acknowledge it if you do kill it.

I don't think you can screw up the game by wrong dialogue choices, but you may miss some items/content. I called the midget king "dwarf" myself. It was a bit thoughtless, but at least political correctness is not one of the eight virtues.

I wouldn't rely too much on the Silver Seed. I'm pretty sure you lose XP each time it resurrects you.
Also, it should not be necessary to rest so much. Isn't there a healing fountain somewhere (near the above mentioned spider, maybe)? So by using the healing fountain and conserving your mana you should be able to get through the game sleeping only when the Avatar really is tired.

 

[Sceptic]

I will say it feels a bit of a cheat, though it is encouraged to use in game. I don't know what kind of time crunch I'm in, but the guy in my dreams prods me to hurry. But I've been eating and sleeping to regain health, trying carefully not to die.

The Silver Seed is a good uh-oh in case you go for long times without saving (as happened to me all the time because the game was so addictive and so immersive I'd just forget) but you don't want to rely on it; as octavius says I think it saps your XP. I'm gonna cheat a bit and spoil one thing: there's no hard time limit. Trying carefully not to die is a good and fun way to play the game, though you don't need to rest all the time as there are many ways to restore health (magic, potions, fountains...)

I've made a lot of progress as I've played 5 hours straight now. I retreated after a fight with some goblins earlier after I had killed them, but was left with only a couple of hit points. There was a gate I could have opened, but I didn't want to risk another battle before resting and restoring my hit points. In my explorations I returned there and found that there was the key I was looking for, but no enemies. Darn. A little courage would have saved me an hour.

Lesson learned I hope

I really like this game's idea of item progression. What 5th level character in any other game would leap for joy over a plain chain coif and short sword?

It's easy to screw up and not be able to recover as your choices have permanent consequences.

I don't think you can get into a dead end by messing a conversation. You can, however, miss out on essential pieces of information. It might be fun to do a first play without reloading if you mess up, and then trying to figure out things on your own, but do it too many times and you may end up in a situation where you have no way of knowing what to do next.

Oh and BTW, how did the chat with the king go? He can give you a task, complete with a tantalizing reward.

I also found the shrine and as I am 6th level I asked for a general skill increase, two magic skill increases (I can cast light now!), and three combat skill increases. I will admit I restored my game often as I kept getting 'mace, mace, unarmed' upgrades when I rely on swords. I also found scrolls that told me how to cast better defensive spells, a long jump spell, and how to get strength upgrades from the shrine, which I'll try when I level next time.

There are mantras to raise every individual skill. The general ones will give more points of increase overall, but the specific ones guarantee an increase in the skill you want. I find the magic general to be good as all the associated skills are useful, but for combat and utility you want the specific ones. I thought there were some inscribed on the walls around the shrine on level 1... unless you never found that one.

When I went back to the green goblins they didn't respond in conversation in regards to the bowl

The green goblin who gives you the recipe doesn't ask you to make one; he's just giving you the recipe. Do hang on to it though.

but the green goblin king asks that I poison the gray goblin king or queen. I know where a bottle of poison is thanks to a mad dwarf and me killing a few skeleton by a hard to pass door (thank you pole!) and could add it to my bowl and offer it to the gray goblins, but I'm not sure I should do this. It doesn't seem like a very Avatar thing to do. I screwed up my conversations with the gray goblins, and they won't talk to me anymore about the quest they want me to partake in either. I may just press on and see if the stew can be used elsewhere.

I never actually tried to poison the greys; I wonder how that would go now. Definitely not an Avatar-ish thing to do, but the game doesn't track your virtues or karma like U4 and U5. The grey goblins quest to kill the wolf spider is either buggy or incomplete; you can find the spider (took me a while to realise this was it) but they never really acknowledge you killed it, and I don't think the conversation ever goes further after this point.

This is really a joy of a thread.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

The only individual mantra I learned so far was from a scroll and it greatly raises my attack. I rolled up a paladin with 19 strength and 22 dexterity. He's getting weighed down from the metal armor and longsword he has now found, so I'm hoping to find some information about raising strength.

Thanks to everyone who provided advice so far. I started drinking from every fountain I came across. Most did nothing, but I did find a healing fountain on level 2. Also, I have been killing lurkers for XP. They were tough at first but getting easier as I advance. The first one I took out with 23 sling stones (half of which missed), then followed up with a dagger. Now I do the stabbity-stabbity with a worn longsword.

I just found the mountain man blacksmith and traded nearly all my leather armor for metal armor. I had a bunch of gold built up, so I was happy to spend it. I am also waiting for him to finish repairing my longsword into better condition. I found a few musical instruments, but I'm not a bard, so I don't know what help they would be. I also found an undamaged crown. It looks like something to sell, rather than a quest item, but I'm holding onto it for a little bit. I need to kill the creature menacing the mountain men in the mines, then I'll report in to their leader for a reward and head down to level 3.

 

[octavius]

19 STR? Eewgh! That's gonna hurt in the long run due to the encumbrance (forget about full plate mail), and there is no way to increase the three stats in-game. I had encumbrance problems even with my 27 STR Druid.
In UU2 the weight of items were reduced, though, and I had little problems with a 25 STR Druid.
19 STR is of course doable, but it will be more frustrating.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Made a separate thread for Arx Fatalis: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-arx-fatalis-thread.82203/

This thread is now exclusively about the Underworlds.