Ultima The Ultima Underworld I & II Thread

[Gord]

Aren't different trainers giving different amounts of skill points, which, iirc, is determined randomly when starting a new game?

 

[octavius]

Aren't different trainers giving different amounts of skill points, which, iirc, is determined randomly when starting a new game?

Not sure if it's random; the the game hints that Syria is a better trainer than Geoffrey, for example.

As for skill points per level my experience was that you got very little the first level and then steadily get more, and end up with more points than in UU1. EDIT: I mean, you more skill points to spend on training per level as you reach higher levels.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

From the UUW2 cluebook (not sure how/if this applies to UUW1):

When you train a skill, the number of skill points you gain depends somewhat on the value of the underlying ability score (Strength for combat skills, Intelligence for magic skills and Dexterity for all other skills). You will tend to advance very quickly until your skill is equal to half of the underlying ability score, then advance more slowly until you reach the same value as the ability score, and then advance very slowly thereafter.

I know for a fact that 'very slowly' means 1 ability point per skill point.

Lobar is the only trainer that gives bonus skillpoints due to his expertise, when you train Sword with him you get an extra ability point in each session.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I'm cruising along in Ultima Underworld 2, but more by using my wits then my blade. After finally reaching character level 3, I loaded up on some more points on attack, sword, casting and mana; the last two since I may need to conjure up some food, healing or light as I go deeper. Since I upgraded my armor at this point, I thought I'd try to take on those two monsters Spoony had trouble fighting... and I failed miserably, though not before seeing some of the equipment they were guarding which was quite better than what I had.

I then had a bright idea. I lured the monsters away from their lair, down a tunnel and onto some moving platforms. I figured if I missed I would come back up a level and hopefully be behind them, but I got lucky and made it across without falling. I couldn't find one of the monsters that was chasing me, so as far as I know he fell down into the pit below. If true, this would be awesome. The other monster went back into his lair, where I pursued. He chased me as I ran in circles, picking up the better equipment, then I fled down another hallway. Once clear, I equipped the better gear, went back and killed the monster.

Looking back, it wasn't all that hard. Just tricky. FFS, Spoony!

I've explored a lot more, but the game sticks extremely difficult monsters in places your low level character is going to stumble upon if he's not paying attention to the signs. I can see the designers having some lulz over this.

I really never liked the platform jumping in this kind of game, but you have to engage in it to open up new areas. Once I stopped stalling and got to it, I opened up an entire new section for myself down on level 4 with a crap town of worms, bats, and lurkers who I've been methodically stalking and slaying. This raised me from level 3 to level 5 in no time, and I believe I am close to level 6, so I'll need to go up for some more training soon. I also met some nasty spiders guarding a nest, but I left them alone and they left me alone. I'm enjoying myself, but so far this game is causing me to do more backtracking then the last one.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Not sure if good news that your brain is sharper than your blade, but whatever works...

Your backtracking worries will soon come to an end.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

So I had a go at playing a pacifist game of UUW2. I quickly gave up, because it requires more planning and LOTS MORE patience than I anticipated. One point of hassle is that monsters will now block your path, and try to kill you while you're shoving past them. But I did learn one thing: The game gives you XP at a constant rate for exploring, but the rate is so pathetic that very few levels will be gained from that. I've yet to see a quest give me some massive XP reward, so this is truly a venture for someone bolder than I.

Another small tidbit; when you meet Fissif, he'll cough up some information if you ask him about the sewers, including a warning that there are these very deadly headlesses next door to him. So that's TWO counts of the player being warned 'Do Not Go There' (the skulls being the first one) and yet people seem to blunder in there like lemmings.

I did reload, however, and am now going to try the 'Let's-break-this-suckah-for-the-lulz' playthrough. First item on the agenda: How far can I get without uttering a single word to Lady Miranda? Any takers?

 

[Sceptic]

Another small tidbit; when you meet Fissif, he'll cough up some information if you ask him about the sewers, including a warning that there are these very deadly headlesses next door to him. So that's TWO counts of the player being warned 'Do Not Go There' (the skulls being the first one) and yet people seem to blunder in there like lemmings.

Moron Indicator, 1993-style

I did reload, however, and am now going to try the 'Let's-break-this-suckah-for-the-lulz' playthrough. First item on the agenda: How far can I get without uttering a single word to Lady Miranda? Any takers?

You won't get past the Ice Caverns due to the script triggers we talked about earlier.

I'm REALLY interested in seeing how this plays out though, kudos for trying it out

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I knocked out another hour of Ultima Underworld, this time clearing out some dangerous monsters in the north part of level 4. Here's the funny thing. I go in and I see one tough monster followed by another. I back up, swing my sword while focusing on one until he's dead, then take out the other. I think I'm done then run right into three more. I fight five of these deadly creatures and prevail. And what was my reward? Chain leggings and a lantern with oil.

Now for the funny part I mentioned. I was ecstatic to find these. Here is my level 7 character excited over finding a lantern and oil flasks because he was tired of his shitty torches and candles. I don't know another game where picking up a better light source at character level 7 is cause for cheer, except maybe Angband and other rogue-likes when you find the Phial of Galadrial. But those games ranged from character levels 1-50, while this one goes from 1 through 16. This kind of progression plays out in a similar manner to Ultima Underworld 1 and I think it is a strong point to the game, especially when compared to most RPGs, where you start finding items with small, magical stat bonuses almost immediately.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I'm also plodding about in the Britannian sewers... again. Some XP values I've discovered on my journeys (give or take 1 or 2 XP)

Flesh Slugs, Bats, Rotworms, Tan Rats = 1-2 XP
Acid Slugs = 3 XP
Bloodworms = 6 XP
Mongbats = 8 XP
Grey Rats = 9 XP
Lurkers = 15 XP
Headless = 20 XP
Dread Spider = 20 XP
Ghosts = 25 XP
Gazers = 35 XP
Reapers = 60 XP

One early treasure of note is on the bottom level of the Britannian Sewers. Behind the waterfall is a Dread Spider, and in its lair is an emerald. This is an Emerald of Restore Mana with 2-4 charges, can't remember the exact number.

You can reach as high as Level 9 in the Britannian Sewers before entering the Prison Tower. I got 947 XP before exhausting all known options of gaining XP. But then again, I haven't spoken to anyone in Castle British except Nystul, Geoffrey and Dupre, so there may be some XP involved there.

Walking around in the Shrine of Spirituality is worth about 20 XP. If you can't find any dream plants to reach there, there's a secret door near the southernmost stairs on Level 4.

EDIT: Forgot Nystul's 'guinea pigs' in his labs. Maximum attainable XP before entering the gem is 951. With that said, there is something odd here. On level 4 there is a Grey Rat, the one that one-shotted Spoony and is guarding lots of cheese? That is some extra powerful rat. A standard Grey Rat yielded only 2 XP, yet this rat in particular yields the whopping 9 XP. I think I've found the elusive 'Jerry the Rat'.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

For the last 24 hours I pushed to see how far I could get in Ultima Underworld 2 and hit a brick wall with Dorstag. I know there are some alternate ways to get the gem from him, but before I explore more of this Strongest Survive world I wanted to report some stats.

I have a Strength of 30, Attack of 30, Sword skill of 30 and a Longsword of Accuracy. I'm not big on magic, but I had enough points to cast a spell that boosted my defense. I am level 14. Despite all this I did not hit Dorstag once. The man is a friggin' killing machine, but I did survive long enough to swing at him more than a dozen times with no result. I'm going to take some time to figure out the level, but I don't think I'm going to finish this game by the weekend as I had planned for myself.

 

[octavius]

Try to find out how Dorstag got that scar...
It may also be possible to goad the female top dog into fighting him. If I ever play UU2 again I think that's something I will have to try. I don't know if it's really possible, though.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

If that fails, try the 'Smite Foe' spell. If it bleeds, it'll kill it.

My adventures have been put temporarily on hold since I had to upgrade my computer (motherboard died) and switched over to Win7 along the way, but one bit of news is that Sceptic was right - you won't get very far without talking to Lady Miranda. The worlds beyond the first one won't be accessible until you talk to her at least once. Now to see if I can ignore her completely after this...

 

[Sceptic]

one bit of news is that Sceptic was right - you won't get very far without talking to Lady Miranda. The worlds beyond the first one won't be accessible until you talk to her at least once. Now to see if I can ignore her completely after this...

Interesting, I didn't know it would block you THAT early. I am looking forward to seeing the results of future ignores - I never tried to properly map the script dependencies in the game, and the ones I know about (like the Listener and opening Talorus) I know because I got stuck there. Carry on

For the last 24 hours I pushed to see how far I could get in Ultima Underworld 2 and hit a brick wall with Dorstag. I know there are some alternate ways to get the gem from him, but before I explore more of this Strongest Survive world I wanted to report some stats.

As you yourself know there ARE many ways to finish the Pits. Not all of them involve combat. Talk to everyone, try to make some friends, try to learn what you can from them. Explore the lower levels too. If all else fails you can get the gem in more... creative ways.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Finished Ultima Underworld 2. As you could probably tell by the way my posts tapered off, I wasn't as into this one as I was the last.

Things I really liked:
- Seeing all my friends from Britannia once again.
- The Guardian seemed like a true threat in this game, and I liked how he messed with the people in the castle psychologically.
- Some levels were truly inspired, like the Ice Caverns and the alien world.
- Some nice nods to other games, such as Wing Commander and Akalebeth.

Things I didn't like:
- That gateway to worlds was sometimes annoyingly difficult when it came to lining up the correct world and walking into it.
- Some nostalgic touches should have been better thought out, like the Q-bert part of the game. Pac-man was fun in UU1 since you weren't really playing Pac-Man. Q-Bert from a 1st person perspective with touchy jump controls is not fun, especially since I didn't know what the hell was going on at first and ended up with a multi-colored pyramid that I needed to use multiple fly spells to correct.
- There was a lot more platform jumping in this game. I had traumatic flashbacks of Ultima 8. Good thing I had fly, but my low casting skill meant I had to save scum.
- Some of the logic of the game didn't make sense. If I was doing all the work, why wouldn't folks lend me better gear? If Iolo and Dupre were there, why didn't they join me as they didn't seem busy. Ultima Underworld 1 had more internally consistent logic.
- The last world just seemed like a pain in arse when it came to getting around. After awhile I just felt drained playing the game. I actually put the game down for nearly a week, as I felt the game got worse the further I went.

Interesting Tidbit:
- I think my low intelligence score made it so I couldn't get mana and casting over 25.

Not sure if I'll tackle Arx Fatalis or System Shock next. I hope I like them better than I did the second half of UU2.

 

[Gord]

- Some of the logic of the game didn't make sense. If I was doing all the work, why wouldn't folks lend me better gear? If Iolo and Dupre were there, why didn't they join me as they didn't seem busy. Ultima Underworld 1 had more internally consistent logic.

It's clear why they did it from a gameplay perspective (or maybe also technical in case of companions), but I agree that they could have come up with a better explanation.
Even if it's just a lazy "It's MAGIC!".
E.g. The armory could be sealed with a powerful lock-spell and due to the guardians spell they can't remove the lock-spell for the time being.
And Iolo and Dupre could be busy with guarding the castle against monsters the guardian keeps teleporting in, or some such stuff.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Origin were pretty good with covering up techninal limitations with some bizarre-o explanations. The core Ultimas have a party of adventurers, while the Ultima Underworlds are solo adventures. They had to come up with an explanation as to why Iolo, Dupre, Julia og Geoffrey wouldn't accompany you this time round. The reason? They didn't come up with one. The game logic in this game isn't just lacking at times, it's ridiculous. Like where are the towers of Castle British? How come the inhabitants of the castle haven't suffocated due to lack of oxygen?

This, and so many other things, are what make Ultima Underworld 2 the inferior game of the two. Technologically superior, yes, but inferior in every other way. I wrote a couple of long reviews of the Underworld games recently, I'm thinking about revising the text before posting them here.

Deuce Traveler: I agree with you completely that the Etheral Void is a major downpoint in UUW2. Whatever appeal it may have as a world concept is lost in execution. As to why your Casting and Mana skills are capped at 25, it's because you chose a Fighter. Which skills can be trained to 25 and which skills to 30 is based on which class you picked during character creation. Why do you think I picked Druid? I like your choice of skills, not one skillpoint gone to waste. One question though, was Lore capped at 15, or didn't you have enough skillpoints to train it higher?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Lore was not capped at 15. I just didn't explore every nook and cranny or do every side quest that would have allowed me enough skill points to raise anything higher. Mora, I think her name was, was also a let down. I beat her in her own fortress along with six of her guards. What makes her think she can take me later with two guards?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Mors Gotha. In the first fight I just nabbed the book, ran downstairs and "initiated self-destruct", then ran back upstairs and left.

For the second fight, a scroll of "Smite Foe" did the trick.

I'm noticing your XP level, and either the game is capped at around that amount, or it's really tricky to find enough XP to gain Level 16. I've never done that in UUW2, so it's something to keep an eye on.

 

[octavius]

I'm noticing your XP level, and either the game is capped at around that amount, or it's really tricky to find enough XP to gain Level 16. I've never done that in UUW2, so it's something to keep an eye on.

My Druid ended up with 12826 XP and lvl 15.
I didn't explore every nook and cranny, though. Didn't fight the Fire Elementals in the Tomb, for example.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

That is a LOT of XP, and it's STILL not enough to gain Lvl 16?

I'm starting to doubt that it's even possible to gain that level. I'll look into it later.

 

[WarHamster]

If memory serves, you can't reach higher than lvl 15 (which you reach at 6400 XP or something) in either Ultima Underworld.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Level 16 is gained in the first Ultima Underworld at 9600 XP, the level requirements are different in the second game.

 

[Fowyr]

System Shock next.

This, without any doubt!

 

[Gord]

Does anyone know the difference between a Toughness and Protection enchantment on armor?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Toughness makes the item itself more resistant to damage, while Protection reduces the damage you take from an attack.