Ultima The Ultima Underworld I & II Thread

[PorkyThePaladin]

Ok, I just had to come here and share this with you people. I just almost literally orgasmed after solving one of the "puzzles" in UU. So I have a bit of a love/hate realtionship with RPG puzzles, as I tend to love good ones but hate many that are really obscure or require weeks of blind trial-and-error, or pixel hunting. Most puzzle-heavy RPG I find to be a mixed bag when it comes to this, but so far, UU has been really amazing. It nails the sweet spot in "puzzles", as they are all intelligent and subtle but also natural and logical, not the frustrating shit many other games throw at you. And this one I just managed to solve has been the best one so far (heavy spolers!!!):

Spoiler

I am playing a melee warrior character with a sword, and joined the Knights of the Holy Cross. One of the quests they gave me was to retrieve a gold plate from the Maze on their level. So after I defeated Rodrick, the rogue Knight, I got the key to the place from him, and using the map, was able to easily find all the hidden doors and explore hidden rooms. Then I came across the Door of Precious Levers in one of the hidden rooms, guarding access to old storage spaces and the golden plate. The door was locked, and had 2 levers on the sides, but none of my keys worked on it and moving the levers around accomplished nothing. Disappointed, I went back to the Knights' quarters and spoke with the Armorer again, who gave the background info about the Maze and the Door before. He repeated what he told me before, nobody knows how to operate the levers to open the door, but it is said by studying the artifacts of the order, one can figure it out. So at first, I thought artifacts referred to the Standard and the Taper which i already recovered/received, and tried to use those on the levers/door, but that didn't work either. I tried to talking to each knight, to see if I could ask them about artifacts to get more info, when I ran into Biden, who returned there after I dispatched Rodrick. He thanked me again for doing his job, and gave me a scroll, which said the weirdest thing, something about dotting i's being important. I thought to myself he must've done some serious crack while he was hiding from Rodrick in the hallway. But then I kept thinking back to (sort of in the back of my mind) to those 2 headstones near the Knights' shrine, and how they had these weird colorful dots above the i's that really stood out from the rest of the text. The picture slowly formed in my mind, well if they were heroes or something, their graves/helmets/headstones could be artifacts, so I ran over there, and read the headstones again. Yep, red and white dots above i's, the scroll, and remembered the levers next to the door were also red and white. Holy fuck, it's the fucking code! White, red, red, white, white, red. I run over to the door again, giddy as a pregnant woman in a buffet line, and try that shit, thinking to myself, no, there is no way this shit works, this would be way too elegant and sophisticated for a video game, when the door freaking opens! And I had to come here! This game is quickly making its way up my favorites' list. Bravo!

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I am envious, happy for you and a little sad all at the same time.

 

[Fowyr]

I always play in UUWs as powerful and hale mage and then club rats and goblins with cudgel, silly me.
So I finally understood that my character should be renamed to Clementine. While travelling with 3-4 remaining points of vitality, the most often case of death is stubbed toe. Just died three times on that level 1 shrine ramp.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Why, do you run out of mana or something? Or is it that annoying "no room to cast spell" BS? If you play the game two-handed, you can probably kite and cast, but that is kinda bad. Does UU2 also have that kind of casting restriction in melee range? The composite spells with the runes (which I first encountered in Arx but was introduced in UU apparently) are awesome, but if you can't cast in melee, what's the point?

Another cool "simulation"-y thing about UU is that once you get to a certain level, low level monsters become mellow and don't attack. That is so awesome, it's amazing other RPGs don't have that for the most part. Why fight low-level trash when you can intimidate them into submission instead?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Why, do you run out of mana or something? Or is it that annoying "no room to cast spell" BS? If you play the game two-handed, you can probably kite and cast, but that is kinda bad. Does UU2 also have that kind of casting restriction in melee range? The composite spells with the runes (which I first encountered in Arx but was introduced in UU apparently) are awesome, but if you can't cast in melee, what's the point?

IIRC that restriction only applies to spells that create an in-game object, like a projectile or a piece of food. Spells that affect yourself (like the various Protection spells) or do damage without an in-game object (there's a high-level spell that does that, at least in UUW2) should not have the "no room to cast spell" penalty.

I think Fowyr is talking about the fact that Mana regenerates very slowly, leading to daring mages often needing to dispatch of vermin with the nearest blunt instrument because their mana supply is next to none.

And you've yet to see one thing that the game pulls on spellcasters...but then again, you've yet to see a lot of things.

 

[Fowyr]

Why, do you run out of mana or something? Or is it that annoying "no room to cast spell" BS?

I always try to preserve mana in early game for killing lurkers with Ort-Jux or casting protection spell for difficult foe.
Plus sometimes my OCD kicks in (I gather all bones and junk, for example, and stash it in one place) and health can be easily restored from fountain, but resting for mana is luxury. At least yet.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Fowyr knows the Munchkin's secret trick to levelling: Kill Lurkers. It only takes one Lurker kill to level up at the start of the game, and another Lurker kill + other vermin is sufficent for another level-up.

 

[Fowyr]

Drog strikes again.
I don't kid.
I made junk corner just left of portcullis guarded by goblin named Drog and threw bones and other worthless junk here. Now I have grey key floating in air above.
I even can get it using potion of Fly.

Its description is just "it's a key".

 

[octavius]

Avatar: "S'up, Drog?"
Drog: "Key."

 

[Fowyr]

It's a key from Green (but not Gray) Goblins' treasury. And I think I already saw it once, can't remember. Last time I played it 8 years ago.

 

[Fowyr]

Oh, apparently it's that infamous UUW inventory bug. I use unpatched version and just got lantern replaced with loaf of bread. Off to the lake, destroying all junk I go.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Yeah, don't pile too much stuff into one area either. I did that on my last playthrough and some items just disappeared when I dropped them.

 

[Fowyr]

What things are buoyant? UUW says:
- magic map
- Rune bag
- gold
- oil
- Talismans, broken blade included
- magic wands and scepters
- dragon scales
- mundane Acrobat mantra book
- Potion of poison from Level 2 maze.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Holy effing feces! Working my way through level 7 (I guess that's the mage punishment Unkillable Cat was talking about before) and bits of level 8, and this level is both awesome and tough as hell. Some of the previous levels were getting a bit stale compared to the really good ones before (like say the ghoul section or the mines on that level), but level 7 exemplifies everything that's great about UU. A gazellion hidden rooms and secret doors, tunnels twisting around each other like snakes at full density, hair-pulling obstacles everywhere, and more lava than Krakatoa. So yesterday, I was completely stuck on one part of it, having zero clue as to how to proceed. Today, despite being a warrior, finally leveled up some mage skills a bit (not for combat, but utility, as you just have way more ways to solve problems as a mage). Of course, level 7 is not the best place to do this, without spoiling anything, but I figured out some cute ways to bypass some of those restrictions:

Spoiler

Casting resist fire on level 6 or 8, then using a moonstone/gate scroll combo, or just stairs, depending on location. The level drains your mana, but doesn't dispel spell effects on you. This shit really helped me get around the level, cause otherwise as a warrior you can't go many places.

This allowed me to advance much farther than where I was stuck yesterday and discover many things, but guess what, now I am completely stuck in a different place on this level. Hopefully tomorrow will bring similar progress, as this playthrough I have not used any online guides/hints, so I am hoping to continue that.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I'm gonna give you one hint: Behind a secret door/passage on L7 you can find a graveyard. There are plenty of secret doors in the graveyard. I recommend finding them, as one of them leads to a moment you won't forget.

 

[Fowyr]

PorkyThePaladin
How you got picture like that?
Just by using "look" at tombstones?

I cant' see it in my floppy F1.50S. Probably it's rip. I had another version somewhere, need to check it.

 

[Krivol]

Using "eye" icon on tombstone gives this look. Worked on oldgames.sk and gog versions.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Just right clicking will give description of anything in the viewport. Don't you guys play with the intuitive iconless mouse mode? The one where you can look at, interact with, speak to, pickup/throw, drag/drop without selecting action icons.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I'm gonna give you one hint: Behind a secret door/passage on L7 you can find a graveyard. There are plenty of secret doors in the graveyard. I recommend finding them, as one of them leads to a moment you won't forget.

Not reading this until I finish the game, like I said, wanna finish it without guides or hints. <puts hands around ears and yells la-la-la-la>

PorkyThePaladin
How you got picture like that?
Just by using "look" at tombstones?

I cant' see it in my floppy F1.50S. Probably it's rip. I had another version somewhere, need to check it.

Yeah, I am using the gog version, and you just right click in default mode (all pictures in upper left off). You can also click on the eye, sometimes that gives more info, but the default mode works better all around.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Can you give an example of when using the eye gives different information than the catch-all mode? I didn't know that was the case.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Can you give an example of when using the eye gives different information than the catch-all mode? I didn't know that was the case.

I didn't know that was the case either from the manual, and maybe usually it's not, but when I was in the Earth Golem/Thief Imp room on Level 8, clicking on the treasure on the floor with the eye by accident, it told me about a trap there and offered a chance to disarm it, whereas just default looking only told me about the item.

 

[Fowyr]

Just right clicking will give description of anything in the viewport. Don't you guys play with the intuitive iconless mouse mode? The one where you can look at, interact with, speak to, pickup/throw, drag/drop without selecting action icons.

For me it's easier to press F2-F6, my fingers are already on WAD (and 1 2 3) keys. Plus in "manual" mode cursor have form of cross that is more handy to aim.

As for Warren:

Spoiler

If you know how to cast Sheet Lighting, then you've 'talked' to Warren. Game mechanics only permit you to speak to other critters, so in order to fake the conversation with the door, which is very clearly not a critter, they had him being close by and set to start a conversation with you when you interacted with the door.

Holy sheet! That's why I love Codex.

EDIT:
A little notes on Lore skill.
Lore 30 does not bring you 100% identify.
If you partially identified item (say "magical dagger"), you can try identify it again with higher skill.
If you really want to see what this thing is, save and reload until you identify it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Can you give an example of when using the eye gives different information than the catch-all mode? I didn't know that was the case.

Gravestones and the grating at the center of the Stygian Abyss give special images when clicked on with the eye. (These has been in the game since the beginning.)

As for specific pieces of text? Dunno, can't remember any.

 

[Fowyr]

Ha, Fowyr's elite hax0r skills strike again!

My first thought was that it's rip, but both cs401.n01 (tombstones) and cs400.n01 (abyss window) were present and not empty.
Reason - when game was copied (probably from CD), "read only" attribute was not removed.
I remember, it really was the problem for some methods of opening file back in the day. File was opened for writing too, so it got exception.

Gravestones and the grating at the center of the Stygian Abyss give special images when clicked on with the eye.

You can make right mouse button click too.

Also I hax0red 40 charges for Fireball wand and destroy debris everywhere. Going from level 4 to 5 using stairs next to ghouls corrupt inventory and freeze game (after clicking on packs).
Interesting thing, drag&drop item in inventory and it will be in the end of player.dat.

EDIT2: When you cast Fireball around that poisonous area behind combination lock door on level 3, you get "many pricks" message without being poisoned.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Well men, I am proud of myself in the way only older RPGs can make you, where progressing the game forward is actually an achievement and not just running from one journal checkpoint to the next, and pretending you are not some mindless errand boy. Yesterday, I have mastered level 7, which is probably the best one of the ones I have seen yet, without using any hints or guides, and I had to do this via a shit-ton of different but always interesting ways.

Spoiler

When I first entered it, I was able to quickly locate the lost medallion in the mines, and use it to get access to the goblin guarded areas in the west of the level. Eventually I worked my way to the prison, and got promptly locked up in it, even after bribing the guard generously (fucking gobs!) As I didn't have any keys for the prison doors, nor lockpicking skill, I proceeded to bash all the wooden ones down with my trusty Sword of Justice (the fortunately unbreakable Talisman), and speak with the prisoners, which not only got me a bunch of new quests, but an escape route out of the prison as well.

At that point though, I was completely stuck (the first time for the level). From the scrolls/notes I found on the level, I knew there was some maze to get to the wizard, and that there were shortcuts to it through the lava pit and the mines. But the lava pits had a door on the other side which I could not open, and despite raising my skill in Search to 30, and combing the mine walls for secret doors, I could not find it.

So as mentioned before, the way I got through that was by leveling up mana/casting skills and precasting Resist Fire prior to entering the level. Using this defense, I then walked along the lava river in the center of the level, and made my way to the locked door, which I opened with a key I found in the spider caves earlier. From there, I made my way to the Thief Imp and was able to find the Crown of Maze Navigation, even though I still had no clue where the actual maze was. I also worked my way further down the lava river, and found what looked like a green maze, but the crown didn't seem to show me any way through it, so I went back.

This is when I was stuck for the second time. Then at some point as I was looking over the map, a lightbulb went off as I saw what looked like a second bridge over the lava stream further down and high up, which was just barely revealed from my earlier explorations. So I went back to my storage space on level 3, and went through all the sacks and boxes there, finally finding a potion of flying. Went back, pre-applied resist fire (for those pesky fire elementals that shoot fireballs at you even in the air), gulped down the potion and went floating over the river. This finally allowed me to make my way to the maze, and the crown revealed the yellow road, just as the Imp said. The rest was fairly arbitrary, Tyball stands no chance against a melee warrior, and now I am going onwards for the Slasher of Veils.

But what's crazy is how much active thinking and effort went into "solving" this level. Using items (potions), using items in secondary ways (weapons for bashing doors), reading maps and hint notes, precasting spells to avoid restrictions, tons of active exploration, etc , etc. This is just so different from modern RPGs, it's essentially different genres.