4X The Unsurpassed Brian Reynolds' Alpha Centauri thread

[Absinthe]

- Mine, All Mine: Yes (never won a economic victory - anyone ever did?)

Been a while but yes. It's more annoying without Bell Curve (no random events) since in order to begin cornering the global energy market you need enough money to probe subvert every single base on the planet (and the Planetary Economics tech), but with random events you can hit an Energy Market Crash and lose 75% of your money. I think you can avoid an Energy Market Crash by being ranked in the bottom 3 by might, which should protect you against negative random events. Other than that, you're fucked. Usually if you want to corner the global energy market you want to be quick and early about it.

If you're playing as Data Angels or your enemies have negative probe values (University, Knowledge value), you're probably better off subverting their bases with probes first. Incidentally, probe subversion costs half as much against a base in a drone riot and twice as much against a base in a golden age. So feel free to send two probes and have them cause a riot before taking over the base.

 

[laclongquan]

Morgan for Economic Victory of course. Any other faction get too much hassle to win it. Like, the game going on and on while we wait for the condition~

 

[Absinthe]

Morgan's the obvious pick but pretty much anyone works for economic victory, except maybe Yang or Deirdre, or Cha-Dawn in the expansion. In the expansion the best faction for it is probably cyborgs, since you can go Dem/Market/Wealth with them and end up with 4 EFFIC, 3 ECON, 2 RESEARCH, 1 INDUSTRY which is just a little ridiculous.

 

[Cael]

Just a warning for the tall builders out there: You can get city pop so high it will WRAP AROUND. Been there, done that with massed nutrient satellites.

kek

How high you went? Lemme guess, 256 pop?

Just had a look at a very old save. It was 128.

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

I hadn't known that Brian Reynolds had been doing his own LPs on youtube, maybe someone can get him to do Alpha Centauri.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpAAyfck68JLgu_Lj5mVS-Q/feed

 

[LizardWizard]

I hadn't known that Brian Reynolds had been doing his own LPs on youtube, maybe someone can get him to do Alpha Centauri.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpAAyfck68JLgu_Lj5mVS-Q/feed

That's alot of fucking Skyrim. When your heroes disappoint

 

[Blaine]

I hadn't known that Brian Reynolds had been doing his own LPs on youtube, maybe someone can get him to do Alpha Centauri.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpAAyfck68JLgu_Lj5mVS-Q/feed

That's alot of fucking Skyrim. When your heroes disappoint

Get used to that. Corey and Lori Ann Cole were major World of Warcraft enthusiasts for a while, for example.

I'm not saying I've never wallowed in the decline, but I at least recognize it for what it is. It's troubling when old-school developers play that shit and exclaim, "Gee whiz, this is GREAT!".

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

Stumbled across an interesting blog that attempts to dissect the lore behind Alpha Centauri.
https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/introduction/

 

[Jason Liang]

4 days until SMAC turns 20!

 

[Hellraiser]

20 years and practically no one learned how to improve on the formula or at least copy it successfully.

 

[Blaine]

20 years and practically literally no one learned how to improve on the formula or at least copy it successfully.

Not only was the formula perfected with SMAC, it's also incredibly atmospheric and immersive, which is relatively rare for 4X games. Even the graphics remain great if one is a person of fine tastes.

Just about its only true drawback is that it can bog down in the endgame, but pretty much every 4X game worth playing is similar. There are some minor balance issues and exploits that don't matter, since rigid balancing is boring, and veteran players who aren't children will avoid being too exploit-y. The AI isn't perfect, but that too is true of most all 4X games, and doesn't affect all-human sessions.

 

[Cael]

20 years and practically literally no one learned how to improve on the formula or at least copy it successfully.

Not only was the formula perfected with SMAC, it's also incredibly atmospheric and immersive, which is relatively rare for 4X games. Even the graphics remain great if one is a person of fine tastes.

Just about its only true drawback is that it can bog down in the endgame, but pretty much every 4X game worth playing is similar. There are some minor balance issues and exploits that don't matter, since rigid balancing is boring, and veteran players who aren't children will avoid being too exploit-y. The AI isn't perfect, but that too is true of most all 4X games, and doesn't affect all-human sessions.

SMAC and its Civ counterpart in that era generally end up with cruise missile spam as its late game strategy. I remember trying to invade another continent with a massive fleet of battleships, carriers and transports and counted over 200 missiles coming in at the fleet once I hit the End Turn button. Repeat next turn.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

There are some minor balance issues and exploits that don't matter, since rigid balancing is boring, and veteran players who aren't children will avoid being too exploit-y.

For balancing, there's always modding.

We've been playing with BinaryDawn mod and its quite fun how you need diverse forces to win. I've seen wars involving Needlejets, SAM Missile Rovers, Psi units matter again, artillery is good, Boats matter, Choppers aren't IMBA, Needlejets aren't ultra-invincible when they appear and no longer become obsolete with the advent of Choppers, psi armor actually has a use, Locusts of Chiron are actually interesting, etc. Not to mention all the probe warfare everywhere.

Not to mention a lot of tools are available earlier, making combat more interesting - better armor, choppers, psi-armor, subs, carriers, missiles, etc.

Compare to vanilla mid-game, which meta is:

Impact Rover Rush/Mind Worm Rush -> Rushing to Synthetic Fossil Fuels and Doctrine: Airpower to kill everyone with jets -> Chop 'n drop -> Planet Buster Tossing Contest.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

20 years and practically no one learned how to improve on the formula or at least copy it successfully.

Another proof that game-design does not advance linearly.

Honestly?

I think there's only way we will ever get an improvement on it: The OpenXcom way.

We need a OpenSMAC(X).

Imagine the things you could do on an Open-Source SMAX port:

- For starters, write OpenSMAC(X) on a more modern programming language, like Java or C#.
- Fix multiplayer's bugs
- Enhance the AI even further beyond Kyrub's patch.
- Getting rid of the ever-hated 7-faction limit. A 12 (in case cheesy-ass aliens are no-no) or 14 man SMAX multi game on a huge or even bigger than huge (say, 256x256) map is the thing dreams are made of.
- Add new terrain on the map. I think SMAC really lacks map-blocking terrain, like absurdly big mountains. Also, ice terrain.
- Native in-built support for larger resolutions.
- Interface enhancement,
- Enhance the procedural map system of the game.
- Unlimited modding in of new units, projects and buildings into the game.
- Adding new mechanics.

Mods like PirateZ and X-COM Files show the potential an open-source port would have on reinvigorating SMAC.

I'm not even sure if it would be plausible, tho, because of CAVIAR technology.

 

[Cael]

20 years and practically no one learned how to improve on the formula or at least copy it successfully.

Another proof that game-design does not advance linearly.

Honestly?

I think there's only way we will ever get an improvement on it: The OpenXcom way.

We need a OpenSMAC(X).

Imagine the things you could do on an Open-Source SMAX port:

- For starters, write OpenSMAC(X) on a more modern programming language, like Java or C#.
- Fix multiplayer's bugs
- Enhance the AI even further beyond Kyrub's patch.
- Getting rid of the ever-hated 7-faction limit. A 12 (in case cheesy-ass aliens are no-no) or 14 man SMAX multi game on a huge or even bigger than huge (say, 256x256) map is the thing dreams are made of.
- Add new terrain on the map. I think SMAC really lacks map-blocking terrain, like absurdly big mountains. Also, ice terrain.
- Native in-built support for larger resolutions.
- Interface enhancement,
- Enhance the procedural map system of the game.
- Unlimited modding in of new units, projects and buildings into the game.
- Adding new mechanics.

Mods like PirateZ and X-COM Files show the potential an open-source port would have on reinvigorating SMAC.

I'm not even sure if it would be plausible, tho, because of CAVIAR technology.

That requires a pretty fanatical fanbase which I am not sure SMAC has.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

That requires a pretty fanatical fanbase which I am not sure SMAC has.

Perhaps. I feel that we need is someone with a combination of coding knowledge, enough time, a good team-assembling skillset and a gameplan.

I think some guy tried, but he didn't get off the ground.
He used Java tho. Would be a good person to talk with to get started.
Talking to people who have gone pretty deep in SMAC modding and code would be necessary as well.

I personally would use C# instead of Java. Very similar languages, however, so its mostly down to what I'm actually more familar with. I suspect the "Open Source/Multi-Plataform" crowd would have my head, and possibly for good reason. Java might actually be the superior choice.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Caviar

Interesting, seems like they got how Caviar works mostly figured out.

 

[Cael]

Fungus already gives 3/3/3 when the full ecology line is researched, doesn't it?

 

[Hellraiser]

Seems like there's two winning terraforming powerbuilds:
- Forest 'n Forget.
- Condensors/Farms + Boreholes (AKA "Fuck the Planet" Terraforming) feeding Specialists.

I am not sure if the latter is so good to be honest. Specialists like engineers or librarians are great but they cost you the minerals the citizen could be farming from a forest and they also do not produce nutrients themselves. So you have this feedback loop, you need more nutrients to need your specialists, but you also need more nutrients to feed everyone since boreholes do not give you food. So you go full fuck the planet and get condensors to your boreholes and ecodamage is starting to be a problem limiting how much your specialist hub can grow. On top of it the latter has one major disadvantage, you need more formers for it. With forests natural expansion will save you a lot of former-turns and ecodamage is not a problem because after the first fungal pop every tree farm and hybrid forest you build raises the threshold AND they by themselves lower the ecodamage caused by farms. There is no facility that you could combine with with condensers/farms to lower their ecological impact which is another problem.

However forests have one major disadvantage, the +1 energy is poor and you need to go free market eventually or fall behind in tech because of it. Hybrid Forests are a luxury energy sink/investment if you know there will be an endgame.

 

[Jason Liang]

... the point of farms is to crawl food, not sure why you are building mines/ solar on it

when you go farms + boreholes, each base only works 2 tiles, the base and the borehole. The two other tiles crawl food, and you set the rest of your population as specialists

do I even need to explain this

tree farms/ hybrid forests are a huge waste of minerals that could be used to build more crawlers, rovers, boats, probes, colony pods or formers. Tree farms cost 12 rows, holy shit, and 3 maintenance, and Hybrid Forest 24 rows and 4 maintenance. That's 36 rows and 7 maintenance PER BASE, to improve 3 tiles

 

[RK47]

Meanwhile, in Vanilla SMAC I entered a pact with Miriam and see her colonies completely empty.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

>playing unmoded vanilla
>leeeeel

Started another game with Thinker mod because I feel I didn't optimal play in the first one, and because the map could have skewed results.
You guys should take a look. I'm finding it interesting so far. AI builds up pretty wells and freely uses Crawlers.
Then again I don't consider myself a good player.

 

[RK47]

OK, can someone explain why the surrounding terrain tiles got improved upon finishing this borehole?

The miracle of God it ain't.

 

[laclongquan]

OK, can someone explain why the surrounding terrain tiles got improved upon finishing this borehole?

The miracle of God it ain't.

The borehole raise moisture and heat (which also increase moisture thanks to the eastern water tile). The higher terrain on right of that bore hole keep all the rain on the leftside. Congratulation, you win a terraform check!
It's a minigame for the rich faction, trying to win the terraform bet.
You can try another bet with the rocky tile southeastern. Raise that tile in order to raise the tile immediately south of the borehole. That tile look like another wet ground.

 

[RK47]

Amazing game.