The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

[Horvatii]

Does it though?

Note that even before steam added the review nagging feature in 2019, the ratio had still been decreasing.

In my mind, there are two possibilities to explain why the difference in the ratio has decreased:

1. Users have started to take more initiative in leaving reviews.
2. Steam reviews hold less sway over users than they used to.

One demands more effort than the other, so #2 sounds more plausible.

I would also assume that users who are early adopters are more active in leaving reviews than other users. If you look at the data from this perspective, then the data says that the indie market has become more niche over time. If demand was larger than supply, then you would see more users who would otherwise be late adopters taking risks in trying lesser known games and the difference in the ratio would increase to show that.

To me, if supply (overall generalized, no genre/price/interest/anyting separation) is larger than demand - as you originally suggested - my plausible assumption would be that users disengage, ie less reviews. Try this game, try that game, whatever - they are in oversupply - they do not hold emotional weight.
But the data suggest more reivews per sale. So more engagement. In the article they say 80 sales per review in 2017 and 40 sales/review in 2020. Double the reviews. I dont believe in a connection between supply and willingness to leave reviews.
So to me the data suggests "Users have started to take more initiative in leaving reviews."
And while general supply of trash on Steam is increasing, not all supply is created eqaul - and has no influence on their "NB number".

 

[Horvatii]

If digital distribution had become the standard 5 years earlier then many more of the studios making the great PC games we enjoyed around the turn of the milennium might have survived. If digital distribution had become the standard 5 years later, gaming might be 99% mobile and console today. Steam wasn't the hero we deserved, but it was the hero we needed.

This is a faulty argument evolutionary biologists love to make. Its fundamentially trash - but protects self by being plausible... Dumb people love to agree with it.

 

[Spectacle]

If digital distribution had become the standard 5 years earlier then many more of the studios making the great PC games we enjoyed around the turn of the milennium might have survived. If digital distribution had become the standard 5 years later, gaming might be 99% mobile and console today. Steam wasn't the hero we deserved, but it was the hero we needed.

This is a faulty argument evolutionary biologists love to make. Its fundamentially trash - but protects self by being plausible... Dumb people love to agree with it.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[Grauken]

If digital distribution had become the standard 5 years earlier then many more of the studios making the great PC games we enjoyed around the turn of the milennium might have survived. If digital distribution had become the standard 5 years later, gaming might be 99% mobile and console today. Steam wasn't the hero we deserved, but it was the hero we needed.

This is a faulty argument evolutionary biologists love to make. Its fundamentially trash - but protects self by being plausible... Dumb people love to agree with it.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Xir is always a bit incoherent

 

[cosmicray]

Apparently this is new: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/coFrom mmunity#6

Q: Can I use the Steam community to let customers know of non-Steam versions of my game?

A: In the game you ship via Steam, and in communications on Steam, you may only promote the Steam version and its availability via Steam, and not other distribution outlets. This applies both to full versions of your game and to content patches that change the existing version.

From the wording of it it sounds like it's aimed at developers offering "18+" patches that unlock nudity and sex in their SFW steam versions.

Do you think, is it about censoring or money? Cause Steam itself allows 18+ DLCs in the store.

 

[Silly Germans]

Keep in mind that profitable PC gaming is not the same as "number of desktop computers," for a wide variety of reasons ranging from the quality of GPUs versus new consoles to piracy. One of Steam's biggest feats was encouraging people to pay for games by competing with piracy as a service.

Also you keep saying we're alledging PC gaming was dead, but I don't think anyone ever said that. More like sliding toward irrelevance in the overall market.

I am referring to the tweet, which caused me to post in the first place. To quote it, "It's also nice to keep in mind that before Steam came along, PC gaming was pretty much dead."

 

[Silly Germans]

I really dislike it when people claim that Valve saved PC gaming. Its like saying that Amazon saved reading. I couldn't care less if PC gaming is a profitable business, which is the only thing that Valve "saved". I found pc gaming much more enjoyable when there was a handful of releases a year made by enthusiasts.

This is a pretty shitty take.
Pre-Steam the thought of a self-developed Indie titles was basically unheard of. Unless you mean scratching pong games onto a floppy for your three friends in the chess club.

Consider also that Steam was handling Payment processing / server space / money conversion and access to a digital market mid 2000's when people still unironically used AOL, I think it's safe to say they were offering something pretty valuable ahead of it's time.

Also as for your Publisher / Gamestop shilling - Fuck buying game cd's.. that shit was scuffed. I hated keeping track of them and if a CD broke you were fucked. Updates were sketchy as hell and publishers would shit can their servers on a whim, EA especially - meaning you had to hunt down your latest patch on some geocities tier file archive hosted by a guy named sephiroth53. (Assuming Securom didn't just fuck you cause the handshake server was gone)

I'm not gonna say Steam "Saved the World" but diminishing their impact on computer gaming because it feels trendy. lol fuck off retard.

Read my post again. I said i don't like it. I didn't diminish their impact. I don't like what their impact was or "how" they saved gaming. I sure as hell acknowledge what Steam did, i just don't like praising them for it. I don't think its overly praise worthy. They could have released games that were formerly without DRM just as a download without forcing Steam on customers, but they didn't. They even patched DRM in and removed lan modes in some cases. I can't look behind the curtains when a game is released on Steam, so its hard to tell whether that is Valves decision or not, but they never left the impression on me that they cared for any of that. I could even live with the argument that they had to do this to bring publishers back in the beginning of Steam, but they are since quite some time no longer a small fish that has to jump at a publishers demand.

 

[DalekFlay]

I would never say everything Valve did was good. They (along with others) pushed the games as a service model hard, which is a thing many hate (myself included). They also use DRM of course, and it was kinda nasty DRM when it first started because of how shit the internet was. I buy everything I can on GOG for these reasons. Some people loved cardboard and plastic too, for whatever reason, and Steam quickly killed all that off. However I don't think there is any debate that Valve saved PC gaming, or at least massively rejuvenated it, whether we like every aspect of how they did that or not. Even someone as supposedly anti-mainstream as you has to recognize that without those dollars at the top fueling hardware, user numbers and development, there's much less ability to make profit at the bottom.

 

[schru]

Steam's DRM is optional and incorporating it is left to the publisher.

To the extent that it can be said that PC gaming was ‘dead’ for a period, it was the case that Steam in its later form as a popular platform-store with all kinds of games, with its special features and infrastructure, came along only when PC gaming was already in the aforesaid state.

 

[Silly Germans]

I would never say everything Valve did was good. They (along with others) pushed the games as a service model hard, which is a thing many hate (myself included). They also use DRM of course, and it was kinda nasty DRM when it first started because of how shit the internet was. I buy everything I can on GOG for these reasons. Some people loved cardboard and plastic too, for whatever reason, and Steam quickly killed all that off. However I don't think there is any debate that Valve saved PC gaming, or at least massively rejuvenated it, whether we like every aspect of how they did that or not. Even someone as supposedly anti-mainstream as you has to recognize that without those dollars at the top fueling hardware, user numbers and development, there's much less ability to make profit at the bottom.

I think we are turning in circles by now. The term PC gaming is very broad and i assume that everyone has a different notion what it means in detail. If PC gaming means mostly the economic side, then yes, i'll agree that it was saved by Valve or at least rejuvenated, as you said. I even said so in my first post regarding this matter. That this brings along positive economic effects for smaller developers is also a given. I don't question any of that. But PC gaming comprises more than that, and as you mentioned yourself, particular non-economic aspect haven't improved. I do not think that it is "extreme" when i dislike the notion that Valve saved Pc gaming.

 

[DalekFlay]

I think we are turning in circles by now. The term PC gaming is very broad and i assume that everyone has a different notion what it means in detail. If PC gaming means mostly the economic side, then yes, i'll agree that it was saved by Valve or at least rejuvenated, as you said. I even said so in my first post regarding this matter. That this brings along positive economic effects for smaller developers is also a given. I don't question any of that. But PC gaming comprises more than that, and as you mentioned yourself, particular non-economic aspect haven't improved. I do not think that it is "extreme" when i dislike the notion that Valve saved Pc gaming.

I'm not sure if you understand how capitalism works, but the PC gaming industry needs to make money or else nothing else matters. Valve making it much more profitable is why all the improvements that came after that happened, it's all rooted in that. And if you think "non-economic aspects haven't improved" then we disagree highly. Better ports of AAA stuff, less titles skipping the platform and many more niche and indie games.

 

[Avarize]

I am always surprised by the gigantic number of the mobile gaming sector. What demographic is actually spending all that money ?

Asian retards.

I know a Chinese guy that made a couple mil from gold speculation and spent 50k on clash of clans.

 

[Horvatii]

If digital distribution had become the standard 5 years earlier then many more of the studios making the great PC games we enjoyed around the turn of the milennium might have survived. If digital distribution had become the standard 5 years later, gaming might be 99% mobile and console today. Steam wasn't the hero we deserved, but it was the hero we needed.

This is a faulty argument evolutionary biologists love to make. Its fundamentially trash - but protects self by being plausible... Dumb people love to agree with it.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

I have no doubt that you arent as smart as I am. You will never be euphoric. Ill let you remain in your ignorance.
Here is a tip: you aint allowed to work back to your hypothesis from the result.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

PC gaming -- and by extension the cRPG genre -- was completely dead for most of the 00s. To say otherwise is to completely ignore reality.

 

[Infinitron]

Apparently this is new: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/community#6

Q: Can I use the Steam community to let customers know of non-Steam versions of my game?

A: In the game you ship via Steam, and in communications on Steam, you may only promote the Steam version and its availability via Steam, and not other distribution outlets. This applies both to full versions of your game and to content patches that change the existing version.

https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news...-faq-doesnt-mean-a-change-in-policy-for-devs/

Valve says updated Steamwork FAQ doesn't mean a change in policy for devs

PC games giant Valve has provided some clarity in the updated FAQ page on its Steamworks dev portal about companies promoting non-Steam versions of their games.

In an email to PCGamesInsider.biz, Valve comms boss Doug Lombardi said that this isn't a new policy, but rather something that companies should keep in mind when considering what they should put on the Steam page for their games. As a result, it isn't really something that most developers and publishers using the platform should be worried about as it's seemingly business as usual.

"The general spirit of this update was to remind content creators that their Steam pages should not be used for certain activities such as for the promotion of a game's exclusive availability on a competing platform, the promotion of an external download that circumvents Steam content policies, or the promotion of other activity that conflicts with the Steam Distribution Agreement," comms boss Doug Lombardi said in an email to PCGamesInsider.biz.

"The new language on the FAQ was not really the introduction of any new policy or policing that should concern the majority of those publishing on Steam, but more of a reminder of existing rules for a small number of developers exploring the boundaries of the existing policies."

 

[PulsatingBrain]

I have no doubt that you arent as smart as I am. You will never be euphoric. Ill let you remain in your ignorance.
Here is a tip: you aint allowed to work back to your hypothesis from the result.

Are you responsible for this classic?

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DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again ^_^ hehe…toodles!!!!!

love and waffles,

t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m

 

[Gerrard]

I am always surprised by the gigantic number of the mobile gaming sector. What demographic is actually spending all that money ?

Asian retards.

I know a Chinese guy that made a couple mil from gold speculation and spent 50k on clash of clans.

I remember reading about Chinese MMOs many years ago, probably like 10. Over there pay to win is completely normal, the more money you have, the more power you have, just like in real life.

 

[Silly Germans]

I think we are turning in circles by now. The term PC gaming is very broad and i assume that everyone has a different notion what it means in detail. If PC gaming means mostly the economic side, then yes, i'll agree that it was saved by Valve or at least rejuvenated, as you said. I even said so in my first post regarding this matter. That this brings along positive economic effects for smaller developers is also a given. I don't question any of that. But PC gaming comprises more than that, and as you mentioned yourself, particular non-economic aspect haven't improved. I do not think that it is "extreme" when i dislike the notion that Valve saved Pc gaming.

I'm not sure if you understand how capitalism works, but the PC gaming industry needs to make money or else nothing else matters. Valve making it much more profitable is why all the improvements that came after that happened, it's all rooted in that. And if you think "non-economic aspects haven't improved" then we disagree highly. Better ports of AAA stuff, less titles skipping the platform and many more niche and indie games.

And i am not sure if you are reading what i write. Disliking facts is in my book not the same as Disputing or outright Denying them, and my last posts should have made it clear that i don't deny the economic aspects. I said particular non-economic aspects haven't improved, i didn't say that all non-economic aspects haven't improved. We are most likely at odds at how bad things would have turned out without Valve but that wasn't brought up in detail. But i'll stop going down that road from now on, it leads nowhere.

 

[Avarize]

I am always surprised by the gigantic number of the mobile gaming sector. What demographic is actually spending all that money ?

Asian retards.

I know a Chinese guy that made a couple mil from gold speculation and spent 50k on clash of clans.

I remember reading about Chinese MMOs many years ago, probably like 10. Over there pay to win is completely normal, the more money you have, the more power you have, just like in real life.

When you spend your life staring at the graphs of the London Gold Exchange, you don't have many opportunities to enjoy your wealth. Might as well play clash of clans on your phone while you do it.

This guy at least wised up a little after the Chinese stock market crashed in 2015. Bought a bar and a football field.

 

[Horvatii]

I have no doubt that you arent as smart as I am. You will never be euphoric. Ill let you remain in your ignorance.
Here is a tip: you aint allowed to work back to your hypothesis from the result.

Are you responsible for this classic?

hi every1 im new!!!!!!! *holds up spork* my name is katy but u can call me t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!!!! lol…as u can see im very random!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet random ppl like me ^_^… im 13 years old (im mature 4 my age tho!!) i like 2 watch invader zim w/ my girlfreind (im bi if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite tv show!!! bcuz its SOOOO random!!!! shes random 2 of course but i want 2 meet more random ppl =) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lol…neways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!!
DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again ^_^ hehe…toodles!!!!!

love and waffles,

t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m

No, I am an intellectual from reddit. Dont @ me.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Do you guys think Steam will attempt to compete against gamepass somehow?

 

[LESS T_T]

Not sure about Valve's own but looking at EA Access is coming, I wouldn't be surprised Valve introduces a system for publishers (or like-minded groups of pubs/devs) to set up their own subscription services on Steam. Like Devolver offering subscription for its catalog, Paradox offering subscriptions for each game's DLCs (which they tested the water with EU4), small indies unite to offer their own subscriptions, etc.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Not sure about Valve's own but looking at EA Access is coming, I wouldn't be surprised Valve introduces a system for publishers (or like-minded groups of pubs/devs) to set up their own subscription services on Steam. Like Devolver offering subscription for its catalog, Paradox offering subscriptions for each game's DLCs (which they tested the water with EU4), small indies unite to offer their own subscriptions, etc.

If Steam offers a way to bundle these together I'd probably pay for it tbh

 

[DalekFlay]

If music and video are any judge then I'm sure subscriptions will take over gaming for ya Rusty, have no fear. You'll be paying monthly in perpetuity soon enough.

 

[Hellraiser]

The "X as a service" meme needs to fucking die already.