The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

[Konjad]

I think that Early Access is PC Gaming's most worrying problem.

lolnope, you have complete control over whether you want to play a game in EA or not...unlike with DRM, casualization and microtransactions.

Nobody forces me to buy microtransactions, so I just ignore them. DRM is quite harmful, but Steam has revived PC Gaming; so it's a necessary evil (not on other forms, like UPlay or Origin).

and linux support! If not steam I bet I wouldn't be able to play counter-strike, crusader kings, kerbal space program and dozens of other games i like natively on linux which i can do now. Meaning if not Steam I'd be still stuck with Windows. This is of great importance, at least for me and the 1% that uses solely linux and doesn't dual-boot.

 

[Cazzeris]

The publishers have never, ever been the enemy. It's always been the retardos buying games.

I also hate most of the important publishers. I mean, they just want to earn money; and that isn't good for anyone but them.

The problem can be summarized in eight words:

-There are too many retards in gaming world.

 

[DalekFlay]

I also hate most of the important publishers. I mean, they just want to earn money; and that isn't good for anyone but them.

The problem can be summarized in eight words:

-There are too many retards in gaming world.

That's their entire job though, companies exist to make money. They can only do what customers support them doing. Customers tend to support them doing stupid, horrible shit, because customers are retarded.

 

[Cazzeris]

I also hate most of the important publishers. I mean, they just want to earn money; and that isn't good for anyone but them.

The problem can be summarized in eight words:

-There are too many retards in gaming world.

That's their entire job though, companies exist to make money. They can only do what customers support them doing. Customers tend to support them doing stupid, horrible shit, because customers are retarded.

I know, but I don't like it.

 

[DalekFlay]

I know, but I don't like it.

"Capitalism is the worst... except for all the others," as the quote goes.

 

[Spectacle]

I also hate most of the important publishers. I mean, they just want to earn money; and that isn't good for anyone but them.

The problem can be summarized in eight words:

-There are too many retards in gaming world.

That's their entire job though, companies exist to make money. They can only do what customers support them doing. Customers tend to support them doing stupid, horrible shit, because customers are retarded.

That's a cop out though, it's quite possible to make money and quality products at the same time. The MBA led "improve quarterly results by any means" corporate philosophy is slowly killing capitalism.

 

[DalekFlay]

That's a cop out though, it's quite possible to make money and quality products at the same time. The MBA led "improve quarterly results by any means" corporate philosophy is slowly killing capitalism.

Yes but customers consider Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty to be quality products. There's a difference between quality versus shit and mainstream versus niche.

Where you're right is shit like selling a broken Battlefield 4 game at launch to keep the 2 year Christmas cycle going. That shit will eventually hurt EA much more than it helps it, and is an example of bad executive management. In the more general sense though, customers support shitty mainstream crap because that's what they like, because they're retarded.

 

[Ninjerk]

I also hate most of the important publishers. I mean, they just want to earn money; and that isn't good for anyone but them.

The problem can be summarized in eight words:

-There are too many retards in gaming world.

That's their entire job though, companies exist to make money. They can only do what customers support them doing. Customers tend to support them doing stupid, horrible shit, because customers are retarded.

That's a cop out though, it's quite possible to make money and quality products at the same time. The MBA led "improve quarterly results by any means" corporate philosophy is slowly killing capitalism.

I think it's driven by shareholder interest.

 

[Spectacle]

I think it's driven by shareholder interest.

These days most shareholders are MBA managed investment funds

 

[Don Peste]

The publishers have never, ever been the enemy. It's always been the retardos buying games.

Aren't all those multi-million dollar marketing campaigns a work of the publishers?

Doesn't that shit only work because retardos fall for it?

People don't eat shit just because they like it. Marketing, bribes, the press, stores, people who claim Alpha Protocol is a good game, etc. are pressuring 24/7, and they're everywhere. They're obviously an important factor to consider.
You can't just blame people. Unless you're a.

 

[DalekFlay]

People don't eat shit just because they like it. Marketing, bribes, the press, stores, people who claim Alpha Protocol is a good game, etc. are pressuring 24/7, and they're everywhere. They're obviously an important factor to consider.
You can't just blame people. Unless you're a.

Honestly not sure what you're getting at. A publisher's job is to get you to give them money. Yes that sucks, but welcome to capitalism. The alternative is worse. So within that framework whose job is it to only support publishers when they do good shit? The customers'. All the marketing and hype and bullshit are methods the publishers use to get your money. You are still the one who says "okay here ya go."

I've seen this idea a lot in internet politics lately, where people blame the rich for manipulating them or using their vile sales tactics on them. Have some fucking balls and admit when hype makes you do something stupid, and learn a lesson from it. Have the balls to admit if Americans really hated their political situation they would do something about it, rather than bitch on twitter while taking a shit and then forgetting about it in 5 minutes because they're actually super ambivalent on the subject. Retardo people are the problem.

 

[Don Peste]

People don't eat shit just because they like it. Marketing, bribes, the press, stores, people who claim Alpha Protocol is a good game, etc. are pressuring 24/7, and they're everywhere. They're obviously an important factor to consider.
You can't just blame people. Unless you're a.

Honestly not sure what you're getting at. A publisher's job is to get you to give them money. Yes that sucks, but welcome to capitalism. The alternative is worse. So within that framework whose job is it to only support publishers when they do good shit? The customers'. All the marketing and hype and bullshit are methods the publishers use to get your money. You are still the one who says "okay here ya go."

I've seen this idea a lot in internet politics lately, where people blame the rich for manipulating them or using their vile sales tactics on them. Have some fucking balls and admit when hype makes you do something stupid, and learn a lesson from it. Have the balls to admit if Americans really hated their political situation they would do something about it, rather than bitch on twitter while taking a shit and then forgetting about it in 5 minutes because they're actually super ambivalent on the subject. Retardo people are the problem.

You're omitting the fact that not every game gets the same media coverage.

 

[DalekFlay]

You're omitting the fact that not every game gets the same media coverage.

Well the shitty gaming press is a whole other matter. I thought we were discussing publisher versus consumer culpability.

The flaws in the gaming press still comes down to people clicking, commenting, watching and desiring coverage of games you think suck.

 

[tuluse]

Well the shitty gaming press is a whole other matter. I thought we were discussing publisher versus consumer culpability.

The flaws in the gaming press still comes down to people clicking, commenting, watching and desiring coverage of games you think suck.

There are a lot of people who are not retarded, but also not very invested in gaming. They just check out what's popular, they see ads, see what's the in the store, hear what their friends are talking about. There's nothing wrong with that, but the current system is set up to make sure they buy crap, there's hardly even an option not to.

 

[DalekFlay]

There are a lot of people who are not retarded, but also not very invested in gaming. They just check out what's popular, they see ads, see what's the in the store, hear what their friends are talking about. There's nothing wrong with that, but the current system is set up to make sure they buy crap, there's hardly even an option not to.

Ha, "the system is set up." Fuck's sake man, if they don't like what they're buying wouldn't you think they'd look for alternatives? If they want isometric turn-based tactical RPGs don't you think they would at least type that into fucking google? If people are so crazy batshit ambivalent about what they're playing then they aren't secret bros, they're irrelevant and made their own bed. IGN covers what they cover because their retardo audience clicks on it. IGN does cover shit like Wasteland 2 and it gets 1 click for every 3,000 Watch Doges gets. That's not "the system" that's mainstream gamers' boring, shitty taste.

Stop blaming "the system" for the world mostly consisting of retarded people who play crappy games and watch crappy movies and listen to crappy songs.

 

[tuluse]

Ha, "the system is set up." Fuck's sake man, if they don't like what they're buying wouldn't you think they'd look for alternatives? If they want isometric turn-based tactical RPGs don't you think they would at least type that into fucking google? If people are so crazy batshit ambivalent about what they're playing then they aren't secret bros, they're irrelevant and made their own bed. IGN covers what they cover because their retardo audience clicks on it. IGN does cover shit like Wasteland 2 and it gets 1 click for every 3,000 Watch Doges gets. That's not "the system" that's mainstream gamers' boring, shitty taste.

Stop blaming "the system" for the world mostly consisting of retarded people who play crappy games and watch crappy movies and listen to crappy songs.

I didn't say they don't like what they're playing.

That doesn't mean they also wouldn't like other things. There are people who can enjoy both Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy and Werner Herzog, but it's harder to find the video game equivalent of Herzog. Steam and digital distribution in general is changing this. Indie gems are being discovered and sold at a higher rate than ever before.

I mean think about this. Baldur's Gate 2 sold 2 million copies on PC alone. BiowarEA added two ecosystems, spend untold amounts of money on marketing and their highest selling game is ME2 with 5 million copies.

 

[DalekFlay]

I didn't say they don't like what they're playing.

That doesn't mean they also wouldn't like other things. There are people who can enjoy both Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy and Werner Herzog, but it's harder to find the video game equivalent of Herzog. Steam and digital distribution in general is changing this. Indie gems are being discovered and sold at a higher rate than ever before.

I mean think about this. Baldur's Gate 2 sold 2 million copies on PC alone. BiowarEA added two ecosystems, spend untold amounts of money on marketing and their highest selling game is ME2 with 5 million copies.

I don't disagree with any of that. None of it. I'm curious what argument you're having though because it's not one against mine.

Mainstream media focuses on mainstream games. Mainstream publishers publish mainstream games. Of course other shits exists, and those who want to find it will find it. The people playing Watch Doges who don't even know Wasteland 2 exists aren't secretly wanting to play Wasteland 2. They don't care about Wasteland 2 or games like it. If they did they would look for them. If you like sci-fi movies and shows you don't watch ABC sitcoms endlessly wishing ABC would make a sci-fi show, you type "sci-fi shows 2014" into fucking google. It's not hard. And besides, like I said, IGN cover shit like Wasteland 2, so it's out there. People just aren't as interested because they have shitty taste.

 

[tuluse]

I don't disagree with any of that. None of it. I'm curious what argument you're having though because it's not one against mine.

Mainstream media focuses on mainstream games. Mainstream publishers publish mainstream games. Of course other shits exists, and those who want to find it will find it. The people playing Watch Doges who don't even know Wasteland 2 exists aren't secretly wanting to play Wasteland 2. They don't care about Wasteland 2 or games like it. If they did they would look for them. If you like sci-fi movies and shows you don't watch ABC sitcoms endlessly wishing ABC would make a sci-fi show, you type "sci-fi shows 2014" into fucking google. It's not hard. And besides, like I said, IGN cover shit like Wasteland 2, so it's out there. People just aren't as interested because they have shitty taste.

My point is that it's harder to find niche video games and they might not have even been made.

Someone who plays Watch Dogs probably doesn't care about W2, on the other hand, if he knew it existed he might.

There are a ton of factors that assist people finding the W2 of movies. In my cable subscription, I have literally 10s of channels devoted to nothing but showing movies, many of them are lesser known. In fact I saw Herzog's Bad Lieutenant on Encore or some similar channel. When rental stores existed the selection of movies was huge compared to the selection at dedicated video game stores right now. Every time you go see a movie, you see about 5 ads for other movies you would be interested in, and not just from the same studio.

These kinds of mechanisms are just starting to get made over the last 5 years for video games.

 

[Damned Registrations]

If you don't like shit video games, you don't magically become aware of good ones, you just assume all video games are childish shit and stop playing them.

People with good taste in video games are a rarity and are generally led into their tastes by friends or family. If it weren't for my brother I'd have grown up without ever knowing shit about things like strategy or rpg video games, or DnD. Would it then be my fault for not having the tastes I do now? People aren't obligated to go on fucking epic searches to scour the earth for information about shit they dislike until they change their mind.

You can't know you like sci-fi shows until you've seen one. Now imagine if they weren't able to run commercials and were restricted to being on channels past 200 between the hours of 2 to 5 AM. Wow, suddenly everyone has shit tastes and NOBODY likes sci-fi shows. WEIRD. Must be 'people's fault.

 

[Turjan]

It was so lively in this thread that I thought Half-Life 3 was released, and then I find this...

 

[DalekFlay]

My point is that it's harder to find niche video games and they might not have even been made.

Someone who plays Watch Dogs probably doesn't care about W2, on the other hand, if he knew it existed he might.

There are a ton of factors that assist people finding the W2 of movies. In my cable subscription, I have literally 10s of channels devoted to nothing but showing movies, many of them are lesser known. In fact I saw Herzog's Bad Lieutenant on Encore or some similar channel. When rental stores existed the selection of movies was huge compared to the selection at dedicated video game stores right now. Every time you go see a movie, you see about 5 ads for other movies you would be interested in, and not just from the same studio.

These kinds of mechanisms are just starting to get made over the last 5 years for video games.

It's hard to know what to say because I completely agree with you and yet I still stand by everything I wrote.

For one thing the niche games like Wasteland 2 came around at the same time as digital downloads and greater discovery have come around. The internet bore sites like this one, which anyone who wants to find a game like Wasteland will be aware of. When I first found this place I barely paid any attention to game news, I just wondered if anyone else was as disappointed in Oblivion as I was and googled and found the famous Codex Oblivion review. Similarly anyone today saying "wow these modern console games kind of suck" is going to google to find out what's up. I don't think people into games just stop playing because the ones advertised on MTV and ESPN don't look good. They search for games they want to play.

Secondly games like Wasteland 2 are getting a TON of coverage even on mainstream sites. IGN talks about them, Kotaku talks about them, Eurogamer talks about them, etc. The only excuse for not knowing they exist is never checking to see if they exist. Wasteland 2 articles on Kotaku get ten times less hits and comments than Watch Dogs because the majority of people are more interested in Watch Dogs. They scroll past the post about that weird PC only tactical RPG to get to the post about the new hotness.

 

[Dexter]

Caveat emptor is a rather shitty pretext for selling buggy/unplayable games: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...are-is-a-terrible-excuse-for-bad-video-games/ , often employing dishonest or outright insincere methods to sell the products. KickStarter is a different platform altogether that isn't meant as a direct "Sale" for software as such, so backers should know what they are in for, and even there the voices defending unbridled greed or outright deception saying that people pledging have "no rights" are getting queieter lately as legal rights for backers are being worked out.

In regards to buying a full product though on a Storefront like Steam, the consumer should expect a full product in return and not a "maybe, at some point, in the future, but maybe not". People that will be new on such a platform and buy a game like that once or twice without "informing themselves" by spending three days researching on various forums might and will at some point be burned by it, the same with people that would like a quality game and have heard Steam is great from others, but will fall for some of the shovelware being pushed as "New Releases" because something "seems nice" from the few Screenshots or videos but turns out to be complete shit. It's the responsibility of the store to sell a) working, b) worthwhile, c) not outright deceiving products and if this goes on for much longer as it has for the beginning of this year "Air Control" style or might even get worse we will see a point in time rather soon where people will lose trust or even their interest in said store and its products because they've been burned one too many times, not to speak about the people that would maybe want to start gaming and will undoubtedly fall into these initial troubles by not being able to filter since they haven't been playing games for 20+ years.

The "You can buy everything here, but 60% of it is shovelware shit that almost nobody would really like to play, with another 20% of it outright deceiving cash-grab shit that might not work or will never be finished or was misrepresented" mentality isn't a great sales tactic and will come to bite them in the ass in the end.
It's changing the proposal from having a store full of generally wortwhile products and only having to find out which of it is "for you" to having to pay precise attention so that you don't get tricked out of your money. It will also undoubtedly awaken the wrath of consumer protection agencies at some point if it isn't reigned in on.

 

[Konjad]

Expansion to my favourite game comes soon!
http://store.steampowered.com/app/305570/

 

[DalekFlay]

Caveat emptor is a rather shitty pretext for selling buggy/unplayable games:

If you're replying to the posts above yours no one was talking about buggy/unplayable games. We were talking about shitty mainstream games versus more niche games. I'm saying if people stick to mainstream crap it's probably because they want to.

 

[Infinitron]