Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[t]

Btw. Chrono Trigger used the same system as W2 does now. Not that it means anything, but it certainly has been used in the past.

 

[felipepepe]

But the truth is that in most RPGs of the past, a full-sized party was the way to go even when they DID implement an XP-splitting system. Especially since most of them had a level cap, so the smaller party just hit the cap faster which really sucked.

In short, it's hardly an outrage.

God forbid learning from past mistakes, eh? At least in olden days they had the excuse that it was an issue from the translation of P&P rules to cRPGs... here inXile is just repeating mistakes from 20 years ago, because yes. And I already I sent a suggestion on this 3 months ago to their CenterCode.

You guys are assuming that smaller parties are intended to be a valid choice, which I don't think they are. You are supposed to be rolling with a party of 7 and swapping out the NPCs as you see fit.

I pointed this before, but the game is perfectly solo-able, they even added a back entrance so you can solo the maze in Highpool. Not taking advantage of this would be a horrible waste.

 

[DragoFireheart]

The blue ghost has clearly played many jRPGs and cRPGs.

Listen to his words of wisdom about group EXP.

 

[hiver]

You guys are assuming that smaller parties are intended to be a valid choice, which I don't think they are. You are supposed to be rolling with a party of 7 and swapping out the NPCs as you see fit.

No im not. Its just that the current game is made in a way that practically forces you to play with smaller party - to have anything interesting going on.

What is obvious to me is that the game is actually made for large party and intentionally makes all skills easily available - since the focus is on player choices and player skills, instead of character skills and stats.

Not to mention how easy the combat is currently, and the mountains of items and XP gained from Random encounters - even if you dont grind them at all.

 

[Lemming42]

Is it worth giving Wasteland 2 another try? I last played it back around Christmas, posted my thoughts in this thread and haven't touched it since. Is anything notably different (in a good way) by this point? Reading through this thread hasn't offered a lot of hope.

 

[hiver]

Is it worth giving Wasteland 2 another try? I last played it back around Christmas, posted my thoughts in this thread and haven't touched it since. Is anything notably different (in a good way) by this point? Reading through this thread hasn't offered a lot of hope.

Nope.

It has been upgraded to actual beta status and overall quality, but gameplay did not see any changes at all. Except some smaller things now actually work, instead of being buggy.

 

[Infinitron]

Is it worth giving Wasteland 2 another try? I last played it back around Christmas, posted my thoughts in this thread and haven't touched it since. Is anything notably different (in a good way) by this point? Reading through this thread hasn't offered a lot of hope.

I'm not sure why you'd play an unfinished game if you really need a polished experience. Wait for the final release.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Is it worth giving Wasteland 2 another try? I last played it back around Christmas, posted my thoughts in this thread and haven't touched it since. Is anything notably different (in a good way) by this point? Reading through this thread hasn't offered a lot of hope.

I'm not sure why you'd play Wasteland 2 if you really need a polished experience. Wait for a better game.

 

[Xeon]

In the last stream, I think they said they will be doing another stream in a few weeks. Maybe they will release another patch when they do.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Also I do not understand why they can't change it at least a little during beta. I only used Morrowind editor and I understand that it is especially well made tool, but even if their editor is only half as good, it would only take 4 hours to smartly modify a map.

If you want my guess, they can't change it because they don't have "clearance" for that. All the designers like MCA went home months ago, and now only the "peons" remain, and no matter how good or well intentioned they are, they simply can't go round changing stuff that was decided in pre-production by people above them without a tortuous process passing by Fargo himself. I bet that's also why there's no lead designer discussing changes, design choices and feedback, and above all, why the game feels so soulless.

I've been there before, in a massive advertisement project where the lead director gave orders, and then went to New York for another project... We were left helpless, with the client angry and requesting changes, but without authorization to make any changes not approved by the director, that was mostly absent or checking stuff via cellphone...

Don't say we don't have a way to get our feedback into his ears when needed. Maybe using Codex twitter account to ask him in a polite manner about what he is going to do with insufficient map design, considering that it can be easily improved? Those exact words looks as the best way to get him interested. Also intervening early can also influence Torment design. I think that hub design is something inXile will come to understand eventually, but why not teach them about it now? Few games will be made batter because of that.

 

[Infinitron]

Don't say we don't have a way to get our feedback into his ears when needed. Maybe using Codex twitter account to ask him in a polite manner about what he is going to do with insufficient map design, considering that it can be easily improved? Those exact words looks as the best way to get him interested. Also intervening early can also influence Torment design. I think that hub design is something inXile will come to understand eventually, but why not teach them about it now? Few games will be made batter because of that.

Let me break it down for you, man:

1) inXile designed Wasteland 2's maps this way because they wanted to, because that's how they thought maps in 3D games were supposed to look like, not because they have no conception of what a flat open grid looks like.
2) Tweeting Brian Fargo or anybody else at inXile would be pointless. Every post in this thread is read by sea or Brother None, compiled into a weekly report and sent to the Wasteland 2 team. This complaint has been known to them ever since felipe "sounded the alarm" on the Prison Demo last August.
3) Changing the maps probably isn't as easy as you think it is. And no, "but modding Morrowind is easy!" is not a good counter-argument.
4) Go to the official Wasteland 2 forums and do a search for "tunnels". Try to find somebody there who is complaining about this issue. Try to find somebody somewhere on the Internet who is complaining about this issue other than a few dozen Codexers. You're not going to find many.

And that's why they're not going to spend the three months they have left to finish the game redesigning entire maps for you.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

So it's not a design flaw, it's just shitty design.

 

[Lemming42]

I just gave it another try, keeping in mind it's an unfinished version.

My thoughts are the same as when I first played it. I suppose the next time I play it will be release.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Shitty design indeed, dunno what is the reasoning behind opting for a corridor RPGs map design instead of opting for a more open map with naturally flowing exploration.

 

[hiver]

There is only one reason for designing things like that.

 

[buzz]

4) Go to the official Bioware forums and do a search for "casual". Try to find somebody there who is complaining about this issue. Try to find somebody somewhere on the Internet who is complaining about this issue other than a few dozen Codexers. You're not going to find many.

 

[Roguey]

1) inXile designed Wasteland 2's maps this way because they wanted to, because that's how they thought maps in 3D games were supposed to look like, not because they have no conception of what a flat open grid looks like.

As I've mentioned before, Hei$t was open-world.

 

[Infinitron]

1) inXile designed Wasteland 2's maps this way because they wanted to, because that's how they thought maps in 3D games were supposed to look like, not because they have no conception of what a flat open grid looks like.

As I've mentioned before, Hei$t was open-world.

Different kind of game, different kind of open world. Wasn't it supposed to be some kind of GTA clone?

If you look at the way that 3D top-down RPGs have evolved, they've clearly gone from trying to ape the griddy look of 2D RPGs (NWN1) towards the more organic appearance of NWN2 and DA:O.

Actually, a "griddy map" and an "open world" are two completely different things so I'm not sure why you would even bring that up.

 

[Roguey]

Different kind of game, different kind of open world. Wasn't it supposed to be some kind of GTA clone?

If you look at the way that 3D top-down RPGs have evolved, they've clearly gone from trying to ape the griddy look of 2D RPGs (NWN1) towards the more organic of NWN2 and DA:O.

Actually, a "griddy map" and an "open world" are two completely different things so I'm not sure why you would even bring that up.

Most US cities (including San Francisco, the setting in Hei$t) are built to a grid.

The corridors of the present are a hardware/engine thing. I remember Patrick Weekes being disappointed in the the corridor-design of NWN2 but noted that Jade Empire had the same deal because they had no choice but to build levels that way. Too bad he purged his livejournal account and I didn't save the entire thing.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I want the map design to be like in Wasteland 1.

I do look forward to W2 nevertheless, it looks like an interesting game at the very least, but... Not sure why you'd call NWN2 and DA:O's map design "more organic". If anything, DA:O's design is extremely artificial - just like W2's seems to be. I hated DAO's design, and I also fail to see how that kind of design follows from the game being 3D - unless I'm missing something. I also fail to see what that has to do with a grid - ?

Personally, I think they should've just stuck to W1's kind of open-ended "flat" design. But maybe that's just me (and felipepepe ).

I've personally have had low expectations for WL2 ever since I learned it's more about party tactics, and saw the stupid keyword dialogue system.

I just saw this post, and now I officially hate you.

 

[Infinitron]

Most US cities (including San Francisco, the setting in Hei$t) are built to a grid.

That's not the kind of "grid" we're talking about here. Real life cities don't exactly look like felipe's map of Quincy either

But if you want to insist that this is a technical issue, well, I'm not going to stop you. *shrug*

 

[felipepepe]

That's not the kind of "grid" we're talking about here. Real life cities don't look like felipe's map of Quincy either

Perhaps not due the "gamey" choice of buildings, like a prison, the city hall, a church, a train station and a power plant all close together, but otherwise it seems very town-like. Most of all, it has the real "organic" feel of a town, where there's a main road, buildings alongside it that you can enter... if anything, the changes from actual real-life towns, like removing walls and allowing you to circle around every building are improvements made to add possibilities and freedom to the player.

Wasteland 2, on the other hand, makes settlements in wiggly corridors ("they are canyons!"), and then throw in stuff like fences, locked gates, car wrecks and goddamn train wagons in the way to make it even more linear. Because fuck you, player.

 

[Perkel]

Looks like people expect InXile get everything right 1st time.
I like InXile but their track record wasn't really good and probably some of those people are still learning how to make RPGs in vein of old RPGs.

We should be happy if InXile game won't be bug ridden like every other loved classic here at least. From Wasteland 2 release they can only improve and it is not like we have many other dev studios out there that are doing good RPGs.

 

[Rake]

Looks like people expect InXile get everything right 1st time.
I like InXile but their track record wasn't really good and probably some of those people are still learning how to make RPGs in vein of old RPGs.

We should be happy if InXile game won't be bug ridden like every other loved classic here at least. From Wasteland 2 release they can only improve and it is not like we have many other dev studios out there that are doing good RPGs.

I would prefer a bug ridden mess with great design and brilliant content that becomes playable a full year after release, than a polished, bug free, mediocre game with uninspired content.

 

[Perkel]

Looks like people expect InXile get everything right 1st time.
I like InXile but their track record wasn't really good and probably some of those people are still learning how to make RPGs in vein of old RPGs.

We should be happy if InXile game won't be bug ridden like every other loved classic here at least. From Wasteland 2 release they can only improve and it is not like we have many other dev studios out there that are doing good RPGs.

I would prefer a bug ridden mess with great design and brilliant content that becomes playable a full year after release, than a polished, bug free, mediocre game with uninspired content.

That is true. Still without BG1 there wouldn't be BG2. My point is InXile wasn't RPG developer and i bet ton of people from that studio probably didn't even play any RPG before that, i sure people there are learning stuff and as they will release mediacore to good game they will have chance to improve and polish their skill for Torment and next games. Moving from 3D to 2D landscape will also be a big boost for them in their Torment game.