Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Perkel]

Well time will tell. If wasteland 2 will be crap then more or less they will have problems with getting money on their next kickstarter. IF there will be people who will enjoy it for what it is then they will again use Fargo salesman pitch and get new game in works.


Free markets and so on.

 

[Oesophagus]

Why? Because they released fantastic games in the past and people hope they do once again. They feed on fanboyism, goodwill and hope. You don't have that if your first game is already shit.

And didn't Fargo and co make good games in the past? If, as you said, fucking up meant closing down then Bioware should be history by now. You can't have your cookie and eat it

 

[felipepepe]

Why? Because they released fantastic games in the past and people hope they do once again. They feed on fanboyism, goodwill and hope. You don't have that if your first game is already shit.

And didn't Fargo and co make good games in the past? If, as you said, fucking up meant closing down then Bioware should be history by now. You can't have your cookie and eat it

Yes, and Fargo's backlog is the only thing that made Wasteland 2 happen. BioWare is still alive due a great backlog of games, army of fanboys and sucking on EA's teat, but if Dragon Age: Inquisition fail, you can bet they will be in deep trouble.

 

[Perkel]

"

but if Dragon Age: Inquisition fail, you can bet they will be in deep trouble.

 

[Infinitron]

In case you guys are tired of this argument, I noticed that Wasteland 2's animator has been rather active on the official forums lately: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/search.php?author_id=74&sr=posts

Some COMMUNICATION here, descriptions of what he's currently working on, etc.

 

[felipepepe]

W2's animation is good , I have no quarrels with him.

 

[hiver]

Ironically, in the move from BG1 to BG2, maps become more linear and tunnel-ish, yet few people complained.

Same for NWN2 and MotB, now that I think of it. You brought this on yourself, Codex!

Yes but BG2 was a huge imrovement over BG1. Same with MotB and NWN 2 OC.

And, most importantly - they were improvements specifically because they had different design level - and more open single maps - with quality content inside them.

/
Athkatla was tunnel-ish and linear - was it infinitron? (oh now you will miss seeing my post, right? Youre going to wait for some other days or months, until youre brain invents something that you can reply starting with "lol" - while you jump to some other idiotic assumption, - isnt that nice.)
Were any of the maps in MOTB so contrived, empty, souless, superficial and built upon literally incoherent idiocies and retarded super cheap extreme emotional engagement schlock like w2 beta is? WAS IT?
Was BG2? really? linear and tunnel-ish? or so full of derp - despite being obviously designed as a story driven lite action RPG - in high fanatasy setting. The direct opposite of what W2 was purportedly trying to be?

OH noeeess its teh "codex" infinitron! the some kind of hive mind! YOU KNOW - the same one that thinks Fallout is a "perfect game, without a flaw!!!!" - that codex youve been raging against and posting idiotic strawman arguments against for a few years.
And also the codex that thinks -UNANIMOUSLY AT THAT - that TB combat is be all and end all of all GAMEING.

That you raged so impotently against in your numerous strawman arguments against TB and in favor or RTwP - UNTIL - TToN chose the former. Since then... not a peep more, suddenly.

Yes but BG2 was a huge improvement over BG1. Same with MotB and NWN 2 OC.

That's what people say, yeah.

What people say? Thats your assessment logic?
Do you know why they were better?

What I'm trying to say is that the "flat open map" thing was never really a dealbreaker for anyone.

In on itself, its not necessarily the main deal breaker. Depends on what you use it for.
Yet, when talking about RPGs of this general kind - it automatically leads into specific negative consequences.

Which W2 so far - has not only proved extensively - but managed to set its own standards of DERP.

Alas, this is the Codex - sudden and unpredictable obsessions r us.

strawmans and idiotic global ad hominems are all you have to offer. And you just keep repeating the same stupid blatant shticks.

I don't like talking out of my ass about games that I haven't really played extensively.

Then why are you constantly talking out of your ass about w2?

Of course, Wasteland has some advantages over Fallout that are pretty self-evident even if you've only fiddled with it for five minutes, but those are too obvious to mention. Play it yourself if you're interested.

Oh, the "i have an argument, but i wont bother saying it" argument. :applause:

While, of course, Wasteland is not a matter of the discussion here, or the problem - at all. So whatever you wont to say doesnt have any relevance at all.

Youre just an empty gass bag. Complete extreme emotional engagement drone, fit only to go and work for some mass market game media, where you could continue to splurge empty statements without any connection to anything real, to create more extreme emotional engagement - because there is nothing else in that head of yours.
No logic, no reason, no common sense, you intentionally deny real facts and form your laughable "counter arguments" on strawmans and ad hominems and unsupported statements.

The real "autists" are waiting for the game to come out. Have you seen DraQ posting in this thread? Roxor? Vault Dweller? DalekFlay? Sceptic? Heck, even people like Roguey aren't interested in mouthing off in this thread anymore. The full Codex Consensus is yet to come.

I would bet anything that any of those would have nothing else to say then what i and Felipepepe reported.
You know why?

Because it isnt just our opinion. Its a fact. What we said is what is actually the content of the game. As it is now, in its beta form. (it is a beta now -not an alpha of the beta as it was originally)
leve lupe mine self internal logic - coherence destroying "mission" and all.

And you.. are nothing more then another dedalous. You think that criticizing whats obviously wrong and very, very bad ... will somehow hurt... the developers.
Thats - your mindset.

And you know, I hate to bring up this kindergarten type bullshit, but peer pressure is a thing. Unlike most "edgy hater" types on the Codex, felipepepe isn't a shitposter or a crank so people take him seriously. How many people would even want to get into an argument with him and his little crusade against Wasteland 2 in this cesspit of a thread?

It's not worth the effort, so we wait until the game is released.

priceless.

So, according to you - although you "dont want to use the kindergarden logic" - but then immediately do just that - there are these players and members who like actually have real counter arguments - but they are too afraid to... "go against felipepepe"?
We? You count yourself into that group?

And you and those other phantom people... (i really hopw you dont mean those you listed above) - you dont care for what is being served now, you wont criticize any of it - and you will just wait for the final game?
Thinking it will turn out as something really different than whats in right now - despite BN defending that crap as something surpassing fallout?

The people who did play the game and basically liked it like Micoselva are just waiting for the final release so they can determine if it's just okay or really good.

hey, MicoSelva , the shill here is using you to defend his strawman arguments. A lot.
have anything to say about it?

Would you mind explaining to audience and to infinitron what that "basically liked it" actually means? Because it was pretty clear to me from that LP of yours and the way you stopped playing it. And said you wont touch it again until final release.
(no i wont badger you at all if you thought it was ok for a beta, or if you think it should be a much better game eventually - but i would love to know if you found anything i maybe missed, just to compare notes)

Why is this mass market shill not banned already? Why is this shill in the codex staff? What? Because he seems "nice"?

Let's be real, Infinitron News™ is like 2/3rds of the Codex content.

Obviously, and isnt that fucking sad? Why would anyone even need his "news" written like he works for Kotaku or RPS - that much?

 

[MicoSelva]

The people who did play the game and basically liked it like Micoselva are just waiting for the final release so they can determine if it's just okay or really good.

hey, MicoSelva , the shill here is using you to defend his strawman arguments. A lot.
have anything to say about it?

From what I've played, the game is okay, but nothing special. Definitely not on Fallout 1/2 level (unless it improves considerably later), but still fine. The Early Access build is very rough, though, I definitely would not call it a 'beta' - it's more an alpha, really, with some features missing and other present only as placeholders (like loot system). General feel and playabiity have improved a lot with recent updates, but it will all come down to quality of the content in the end, because as much as I like the skill-based gameplay intertwined with tactical combat, they must be built upon something interesting to make a great game.

 

[hiver]

Fine, thanks.

What did you think about skill based gameplay - seeing how your team can easily have all skills, and the content doesnt create any differences to single playthrough because of them?
How good is tactical combat, seeing how fast you improve your characters, get equipment and how simple, completely non tactical combat encounters are?

Or could we just ascertain that you dont think that "skills based gameplay" (which BN said is nowhere near the inXile intention since they are going for players choices gameplay)... and "tactical combat" (which is just theoretical now) - are built upon or used for anything interesting now?

Which is, btw, almost exactly what me and felipepepe are saying - with a difference of much more detailed and specific criticism of betas many parts and content.
(i have to say any hope i had went down the drain, (i usually dont function on hopes and beliefs) -especially after these recent Bn revelations)

-

I mean, dont get me wrong MicoSelva, its just that you mentioning skill based gameplay and tactical combat will make some people think thats whats actually in the game.

Which would make me a liar.

So, im just asking for clarity. Since you mentioned those.

 

[Lhynn]

Fine, thanks.

What did you think about skill based gameplay - seeing how your team can easily have all skills, and the content doesnt create any differences to single playthrough because of them?
How good is tactical combat, seeing how fast you improve your characters, get equipment and how simple, completely non tactical combat encounters are?

Why does this retard keep bringing balance up (of any kind) when its been said over and over again that this will be the last thing they will touch upon? i mean its fair enough to criticize it, but using it like ammo against InXile is ljust trying2hard.

 

[hiver]

Because you degenerate idiotic brainless turd,... there is no tactical combat now - at all. And im talking about what is in the beta now - NOT what will be in some theoretically possible future.

Besides that, yes we have heard stuff will be balanced. True. - Did they say WHAT? out of many different features that affect it now. Did they say HOW?

And didnt BN clearly explain what are the main design goals of this game? The player choices. Not skill based gameplay.
I see youre too stupid to connect those few blatant dots - but, if your goal is to make the game based on player choices - then you cannot "balance" it in any way that makes any skills takes primary importance OVER player choices.

And this :

using it like ammo against InXile

... this just shows how mindbogglingly stupid and superficial idiot you are.

I dont give a rats ass about Inxile you cretin. Im not two years old like you.
Therefore - i am not "attacking the developer company" you stupid ignorant, devolved, shit.

 

[Lhynn]

Yes we have heard stuff will be balanced. True.

Then, stop bringing it up you retard. Youd think the alpha of the game has bigger issues than XP rewards to rant about.

 

[hiver]

Dont you understand basic english you fucking brainless cretin?


- edit - right...right... my answer was too complex for that level of IQ...

Ok, so...try this: Me not say xp rewards is tha only thing makes game bad. Me say - thats just one of big bad vudu that make w2 bad juju.

- get it now stupid?

 

[MicoSelva]

What did you think about skill based gameplay - seeing how your team can easily have all skills, and the content doesnt create any differences to single playthrough because of them?
How good is tactical combat, seeing how fast you improve your characters, get equipment and how simple, completely non tactical combat encounters are?

These are all balance issues and they should be resolved. But the foundation is there. For now, I'm giving inXile the benefit of doubt. The alpha, sorry, beta, has more pressing issues than that now.

Or could we just ascertain that you dont think that "skills based gameplay" (which BN said is nowhere near the inXile intention since they are going for players choices gameplay)... and "tactical combat" (which is just theoretical now) - are built upon or used for anything interesting now?

I haven't played much (radio tower + Ag. Center + some free roaming and random encounters), so I can't really speak much about the content quality. What I've played through was fine. Nothing mindblowing, but definitely serviceable. I was hooked enough to want to continue playing.

There were enough skill checks scattered around to make this aspect of the game significant, but I would prefer even more. Obviously they were easily covered by the whole party, but as I said, that's not the main problem at the moment (also because Ag. Center is one of the starting areas, where skill checks can't and won't be very demanding). I much more disliked the fact that all that lockpicking, safecracking and shit didn't really net any interesting finds. All this should must be fixed for release. Same with combat & character system balancing (and I would like some more enemy variety please).

 

[Ninjerk]

Lhynn hiver Just fuck already.

 

[Lhynn]

: Me not say xp rewards is tha only thing makes game bad.

But thats the part of your argument that im attacking now fuckface, get on point.
The root of the problem is the overabundance of exp that generates fast levels that gives for plenty of skillpoints. coupled with the fact that your experience reward is not gimped by having a fuckton of team members (each and every one with a set of skills). Everything, and i do mean everything points out to the shitty XP system they are currently using, that one which has been said will be touched upon later because they dont fucking care about a couple of numerical values that are easily changed at this stage of production (besides, high xp values makes sense on a beta, gives players more room to experiment with the skills).

 

[hiver]

These are all balance issues and they should be resolved.

Well no, those are all the results of specific design goals, as explained by BN.

But sure, ok. I get your point of view generally. Thats what i got from reading your LP too. You played very little of it and found whats there to be a good foundation on which a good game could be made, with further development.

I cant see how can anyone see Ag center as "fine" or serviceable but again, i figure you think its an unfinished, buggy starting area that will be upgraded more later on.
- Its not about skill checks being more demanding, its rather that whatever small differences different skills bring in gameplay - are all superficial and inconsequential. Again, exactly per actual major design goals.
I sure wish it wasnt so, and that your wish about more skill checks gets granted - but see, even if that happens... youll just get more inconsequential, superficial, flavor ones.

Well, not to harp on you anymore, - i guess we will see, wont we?
Thanks for clarifying things more so everyone can see the difference between infinitron strawman implications and actual thing in more details.
(then again... it will probably be too complicated for quiet a few brainless dumbasses here)


/

Lhynn, youre just too fucking stupid to behold or consider. I dont care what part of my answer you are "attacking" you devolved turd - who gives a fuck about your fantasies and wish fulfillments? Its all answered several times over above already you laughable cretin. Im not going to talk backwards just because you are too godamn stupid. Read those answers for a few more years. Maybe you will manage to get it.

- you think they will just lower the xp so much that everything will magically turn into a skill based game with meaningful C&C.

:points finger at Lhynn:

 

[Lhynn]

you think they will just lower the xp so much that everything will magically turn into a skill based game with meaningful C&C

I think its too soon to tell, and that its not even an issue worth talking about at this point. You can always reduce combat xp and increase quest xp to have a better control over how many points the team will get to spend and how high a skill can be at a certain point. You can reduce xp after the first encounter with a new kind of enemy to discourage grinding, you can do all sort of things to make the player conscious about their skill choice and just how many points they are willing to spend on each skill, you can reduce the amount they get each level, increase skill costs, and a whole bunch of etc.

But thats not even the original issue i pointed out, and you know it. My point is that you give them too much crap for something that is a placeholder of the lowest priority when there are more important things to talk about, all of which you have already addressed.

Ive said it times before, you make some good points, but you commit so hard to the stuff you get wrong that its mindblogging. Everything in a desperate attempt to "win" an argument, and it works, ill give you that, people get tired of your bullshit.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

(besides, high xp values makes sense on a beta, gives players more room to experiment with the skills).

Same thing occured to me, beta doesn't exist to give you a fullfilling experience, it exists to get free bugtesting.
Although that's just speculation, however I figure if they weren't already planning on changing the formula they would after all the critique. Even if it's mostly generated from one retard, nobody really disagrees.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

(besides, high xp values makes sense on a beta, gives players more room to experiment with the skills).

Same thing occured to me, beta doesn't exist to give you a fullfilling experience, it exists to get free bugtesting.
Although that's just speculation, however I figure if they weren't already planning on changing the formula they would after all the critique. Even if it's mostly generated from one retard, nobody really disagrees.

I remember they said once the healing on spot and medical equipments overabundance was only for the beta to make players walking trough and checking content easier. I mean, with malfunctioning difficulty and playing for feedback not for content it makes sense to provisionally balance game on the easy side rather than on the difficult.

 

[hiver]

all of which you have already addressed.

Exactly. Imbecile. - and which the xp is an integral, one part of. Which is what i told you several posts ago.

You can always...

Yes you can. And that means shit.
Example: i can make the best game/car/spaceship/software/computer ever made. - doesnt mean shit until i do it. Or atleast attempt it.

I think its too soon to tell, and that its not even an issue worth talking about at this point.

If thats true - then why are you talking about it specifically. Why are you so desperately holding for it you fucking moron?
Not that it is true. Because what you think means shit. And its one of the bigger features of the game so - its pretty much very worthy of talking about.

Ive said it times before, you make some good points, but you commit so hard to the stuff you get wrong that its mindblogging. Everything in a desperate attempt to "win" an argument, and it works, ill give you that, people get tired of your bullshit.

Just because you say things - doesnt make them true. Empty, declarative statements dont actually mean anything - you cretin! Rule one of internet idiocy.

Like the sentence above too. Or rather, sentences.
I dont need any "desperate need to win arguments". You have none and you lost posts ago. And what did i get wrong you cretinous fecal splurge?
What you spouted, like an imbecile you are, over several posts was originally just your idiotic assumption, or several of them rolled into one, just like this one.
And i had good grace to actually answer that, and then see you going full retard as a reply.

Not to mention that you arrogantly start your discussion with me with an insult and then cry about my replies and try to present your own cretinous stupidity as my "desperate needs to win arguments" - a projection - supposedly implying you had any arguments at all.
Im only beating you over your empty head because youre a stupid but arrogant fucktard. You literally dont deserve anything else but to be stomped into the ground.

(besides, high xp values makes sense on a beta, gives players more room to experiment with the skills).

Same thing occured to me, beta doesn't exist to give you a fulfilling experience, it exists to get free bugtesting.

No shit?
WOW! Holly shit! Thats genius! Its all for beta testing! Jeez wiz! Why didnt anyone else think of that!?
You two must be some kind of Siamese genius twins, mentally. Or triplets with infinitron!

Thats actually the real plan! So the players can test a character skill based game - AS A PLAYER SKILL BASED GAME!
So you cannot test any sort of lack of skills and how that influences and creates the divergent gameplay - but instead you have all skills at once and ZERO divergent gameplay completely, regardless of skills at all! (BECAUSE THERE ISNT ANY YOU FUCKING MORONS!)
Somebody better call Vault dweller and Larian studios and tell them they fucked up their betas completely! They should have releaed their betas with all skill points on maximum so every player can try out all the fun stuff and... do the... bugtesting ...

While every example of reactivity given by an official member of the team breaks apart if it even hears logic and internal coherence have been seen in vicinity.
Not to mention (for the fucking tenth time) how he defended that same xp system, (instead of saying - hey, thats just for beta purposes, we will nerf that significantly) how he praised the player choices as the next step in evolution over old types of RPGs... and explained that theplayer choice is primary game design goal.

But you fucking twin retards are THAT fucking stupid - that even all that means nothing, just because you think im mentioning xp for reasons YOU INVENTED IN YOUR IDIOTIC SKULLS.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I remember they said once the healing on spot and medical equipments overabundance was only for the beta to make players walking trough and checking content easier. I mean, with malfunctioning difficulty and playing for feedback not for content it makes sense to provisionally balance game on the easy side rather than on the difficult.

I imagine the full game will have a cap close to what the cap currently is in the beta, maybe a little higher, I wouldn't mind if it had a soft cap a la fallout with a number around the same, 20 or so.
Although that would mostly affect loot and exp rate, and a -bit- of the difficulty curve. As far as quest based skill checks go there really aren't many. The only one I can think of that can't be circumvented with some shitty item is the totem pole, but then you have a companion who pretty much ruins that by having the skill you need. It would be nice if she required a check to join you, I was actually pretty disappointed when my uncharismatic squad recruited her so easily.

Things like making the dog only be affected by animal whisperer and not the busy bee, being able to fix the water to put out the fires in highpool ONLY if you have the repair, would all be nice touches. Although there's still that whole other side that bitches when they can't experience everything in one playthrough.

 

[Perkel]

Hiver generally balance changes are dead last in production cycle. Right now probably W2 team want everyone to use as much skills as it needs to iron out bugs which is exactly what beta should be about. Which means players should have way to play faster and check more content.

This is why people wait for release version to play game. Because they don't want to take part in bug testing for free and they don't want to play unfinished, unbalanced game for the sake of playing it earlier in shitty form.

This is why we can't have nice things...

 

[MicoSelva]

Well, not to harp on you anymore, - i guess we will see, wont we?

This is the pretty much approach I'm taking, although I'm aware some issues can't be fixed, like the non-open world. I find the limitation of only being able to visit the 'plot-unlocked' locations really annoying. I would prefer the world to be completely open for exploration (like in the original Wasteland), or at least the locked locations limited only to a few crucial ones (like in the first Baldur's Gate).

 

[DosBuster]

Lol Hiver unless they're either J.E. Sawyer or have the OCD of you then most designers not only leave balancing at last but most of the time they balance maybe half of the content then go.. "fuck it they'll figure it out" and leave the rest.