Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Brother None]

I think that optimizations, in general, shouldn't be that far up the list of priorities in an early beta. If the framerate-dependent cursor issue is solved, most people will be able to easily live with a lower framerate. Solving the save and the CTD issues are the most important things right now IMHO.

Well, some PC builds are having some major issues and extremely low framerates/just can't run it. Agree your mouse-fix may be a major help here for less bad cases and I pinged one of my higher-ups about it, but optimization passes do need to be done sooner rather than later.

 

[Kaldurenik]

Yeah the save bugs make it hard to do any kind of testing or playing.

Also i would like to say that you need to look into the loot tables. Right now the best loot i have found are from the caches on the world map. Everything else is complete junk. While the loot caches had items 2 to 5 times better then what i had at said moment.

Then the optimization do need to be better i have a good computer but i cant play on the highest settings

 

[Sensuki]

WLSUG-0921 - Make the mouse less frame-rate dependent (change the input method)

Summary *
Make the mouse less frame-rate dependent (change the input method)
Description *
To alleviate problems with poor performance - especially in the beta, some relief could be provided by de-coupling the mouse from the frame rate / windows and offering Raw Input data where the game directly interfaces with the HID Mouse device.

I'm not sure what input library you are using for Wasteland 2 (I know it's not DirectInput as that would not work on Linux or Mac), but please consider having a look at Raw Input (WM_INPUT) instead of using WM_MOUSEMOVE.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms645590(v=vs.85).aspx

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee418864(v=vs.85).aspx

Dat FPS player knowledge comes in handy sometimes

 

[skuphundaku]

Nah, optimization is needed... my brother has a i5 laptop with 6Gb RAM and a 1GB AMD video card, and yet can't run the game even on the lowest setting... it lags so much it's unplayable. Pretty sure that many backers and testers are having the same problem.

I have a rather similar setup myself (first gen i7 laptop with 6GB RAM and Radeon 5850 with 1GB RAM) and I have almost constant 60FPS in 1280x720/good and around 17FPS in 192x1080/fantastic. That's not to say that some people aren't having problems on their setups. Who knows what Unity reacts badly to, and you get shit performance on mid-to-high end machines. My point is that this is more likely due to some subtle bug instead of a general performance/optimization issue.

I agree with Brother None that, at some point sooner or later you have to start optimiizing stuff, but my point is that optimization is something that is usually done towards the end of the dev cycle. Otherwise bug fixes and new features risk to mess up your optimizations or you may realize that some optimizations are not a good idea under the circumstances.

 

[Brother None]

It's kind of all over the place for different computers. Some people are running it ok on years old computers, others are having problems on new and very high-end builds. Simple reason for that is our QA staff is kinda low so it just hasn't been on that wide a variety of PC builds. If your computer is similar to one we've been running it on a lot, odds are it runs well.

That's a huge advantage of doing a beta this big, we're getting a ton of reports on specific builds, and that should be a huge help in optimization passes.

 

[Infinitron]

i agree, the gameplay is clearly the most crucially "fucked" part at this point - i reacted to the specific statement, not the overall points on reactivity

You agree? Well that didn't stop Felipe's complaints that were mainly about reactivity from getting a pile of brofists, but whatever

 

[Sensuki]

Do you want us to submit "poor performance" as a 'bug' so that you know what builds are running bad?

 

[felipepepe]

I have a rather similar setup myself (first gen i7 laptop with 6GB RAM and Radeon 5850 with 1GB RAM) and I have almost constant 60FPS in 1280x720/good and around 17FPS in 192x1080/fantastic.

Mine is similar to yours, I have a first gen 2.67GHz i7 desktop, 6GB RAM and a 2GB GTX 660 and it plays perfectly at 1080p,with 8x anti-aliising and stable 60 FPS.

But it takes a long time to load the menu and the 3D character viewer.

 

[Kiste]

The problem seems to be confined to PCs/notebooks that have integrated graphics (in addition to a dedicated GPU). The game might simply ignore the dedicated GPU and use the integrated GPU instead.

 

[FeelTheRads]

i agree, the gameplay is clearly the most crucially "fucked" part at this point - i reacted to the specific statement, not the overall points on reactivity

You agree? Well that didn't stop Felipe's complaints that were mainly about reactivity from getting a pile of brofists, but whatever

Brofists are an important currency. A crypto-currency even.

 

[felipepepe]

DRAMA sells.

 

[Sensuki]

Mine is similar to yours, I have a first gen 2.67GHz i7 desktop, 6GB RAM and a 2GB GTX 660 and it plays perfectly at 1080p,with 8x anti-aliising and stable 60 FPS.

Can you turn vsync off and see what FPS you get ? I have a 120Hz monitor (but I hate vsync) so I want to know if you can get more than 60

My PC (i7 870 @ 2.93GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD 3GB HD7970, Windows 8.1) only gets 20-50FPS, doesn't matter what graphics setting I use.

 

[Brother None]

Only way we could've gotten more brofists if felipe and I fought it out in the Thunderdome.

Do you want us to submit "poor performance" as a 'bug' so that you know what builds are running bad?

Yes please. Especially if you tried several solutions/tweaks and have details on what made a difference or not.

 

[sea]

All the posts so far have been somewhat good and feedback-y ( :brofist: felipepe! ) I am just rather surprised at sea `s obvious brown nosing to the extreme. Fishing for a job there, huh?

More like I don't share the "it's not perfect, therefore it sucks" attitude many here do, and I'm also a lot more positive overall about the potential Wasteland 2 has because I think they've got it mostly right and from here on out it's just tweaking. Plus, as someone who has done (amateur) development I fully understand what a game that is currently in the works actually looks like, and I can appreciate inXile releasing it when it is in a state like this, because it's really quite daunting and you always feel you can do better (and yeah I know you've worked on a game too Surf, just saying).

Besides, is it so strange to enjoy a game?

 

[Sensuki]

Also by the way everyone - Unity has an output_log.txt in the Wasteland 2\Build\WL2_Data folder that will output (try-catched?) errors that you get when you're in the game. This may be useful for inXile.

I submitted my output bugs in SRR to Hairbrained Schemes for bugfixing purposes as well

examples

Shader 'Wasteland2/BumpedSpecular': fallback shader 'BumpedSpecular' not found
Shader 'Transparent/Cutout/Complete': fallback shader 'Transparent/Cutout/BumpedSpecular' not found
Shader 'Wasteland2/BumpedSpecular-FadeOut': fallback shader 'BumpedSpecular' not found
Shader 'Nature/Terrain/Diffuse': dependency 'AddPassShader' shader 'Hidden/TerrainEngine/Splatmap/Lightmap-AddPass' not found
Shader 'Nature/Terrain/Diffuse': dependency 'Details0' shader 'Hidden/TerrainEngine/Details/Vertexlit' not found
Shader 'Nature/Terrain/Diffuse': dependency 'Tree0' shader 'Hidden/TerrainEngine/BillboardTree' not found

(Filename: Line: 78)

The tree Gnarled - bendy must use the Nature/Soft Occlusion shader. Otherwise billboarding/lighting will not work correctly.

(Filename: Line: 78)

The tree Appleberry Bramble - tight tangle must use the Nature/Soft Occlusion shader. Otherwise billboarding/lighting will not work correctly.

(Filename: Line: 78)

The tree Appleberry Bramble - tight tangle must use the Nature/Soft Occlusion shader. Otherwise billboarding/lighting will not work correctly.

(Filename: Line: 78)

UnloadTime: 4.701405 ms
No audio category with name SFX

Couple of those (the line 78 ones) might fix those flickering shadows.

 

[Roguey]

You can't split the party across multiple maps, sadly.

Uh huh, another one of Lyin' Fargo's "Designs change during development" issues.

Not really. As far back as May 2012, the devs said that party splitting across levels was probably not going to work. They never said that it would that I know of, and I've been paying attention.

You missed a couple of spots.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...at-wasteland-2-guru.85907/page-4#post-2833210

So there are trade-offs that have to be made to allow party-splitting across levels to work (and some significant implementation labor). At the moment, we think the trade-offs are too big.

For example, water will be vital (as it should in a post-apocalyptic environment) and there should be times when you need to decide if you should travel together or split your party up and have the fastest who can purify water and find food head into the wilderness as your team continues on to a time critical distress call, and then hope they can catch up with supplies before the party is consumed by the desert.

The left-hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. Smedstad becomes more and more right every day.

 

[Infinitron]

Still mentioning Gus Smedstad? I thought you were disgusted by mentally ill people, Roguey.

 

[skuphundaku]

Also by the way everyone - Unity has an output_log.txt in the Wasteland 2\Build\WL2_Data folder that will output (try-catched?) errors that you get when you're in the game. This may be useful for inXile.

I just looked it up and, yeah, indeed there is. However, It seems like it's overwritten every time you start the game, so in order for it yo be useful, you need to copy it for reference purposes every time something goes tits up.

 

[felipepepe]

Can you turn vsync off and see what FPS you get ? I have a 120Hz monitor (but I hate vsync) so I want to know if you can get more than 60

Really depends on the areas and camera distance; I got to 85fps on a random encounter with the camera close, but at most places with the camera at mid-range it stays at 60-70.

 

[Roguey]

Still mentioning Gus Smedstad? I thought you were disgusted by mentally ill people, Roguey.

I expect it will be a disaster, even if they manage to put something out. Think Stonekeep or Descent to Undermountain. Fargo's very focused on surface stuff, Pavlish does not have his shit together, and the two of them have a history of Not Getting Stuff Done.

is looking pretty accurate from where I'm standing. Maybe the early access sales will give them enough time to turn it around but I dunno.

 

[Grunker]

i agree, the gameplay is clearly the most crucially "fucked" part at this point - i reacted to the specific statement, not the overall points on reactivity

You agree? Well that didn't stop Felipe's complaints that were mainly about reactivity from getting a pile of brofists, but whatever

felipepe's comment was on the nature of specific examples of reactivity, dear tron

 

[Infinitron]

felipepe's comment was on the nature of specific examples of reactivity, dear tron

Not just that. He also said there wasn't enough of it. "NO TWO PLAYTHROUGHS WILL BE THE SAME IS A LIE!!", "Wasteland 2 will be never as replayable as Fallout", etc.

But we've moved on so WHATEVER

is looking pretty accurate from where I'm standing.

We all know where you're standing, Roguey.

I do hope you can admit you were wrong when Eternity's beta turns out to be just as ramshackle. Obsidian needs that Early Access cash more than inXile does and they can't delay it much!

 

[Roguey]

is looking pretty accurate from where I'm standing.

We all know where you're standing, Roguey.

I do hope you can admit you were wrong when Eternity's beta turns out to be just as ramshackle. Obsidian needs that Early Access cash more than inXile does and they can't delay it much!

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64...ions-and-wilderness-areas/page-4#entry1396148

We have scaled our scope to our budget, which includes animation and everything else.

PoE won't be early access because they have a zero-spoiler policy.

Here's something Fargo's likely not going to discuss: How much of the Kickstarter funds have they spent and how much do they have left? Because this isn't even months away from becoming a finished game. Divinity: Original Sin, now there's something that looks like it's maybe four months away from completion (of course it's been in development since late 2010/early 2011; insert the blah-blah-blah about the 3+ years it takes to make a full-scale RPG). Wasteland 2 is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from that. Damn shame that Lyin's going to have to cut even more into his Wasteland 2 profits to finish it, assuming they even can.

 

[Spockrock]

Spoiler

Listen to their banter for a while. They'll mention something they want and getting it for them will get them to bugger off.

that's obvious, what's not obvious is where I am supposed to get it.

Spoiler

all of my chars are non-smoking, if I picked that particular brand would I get it in his inventory?

 

[Brother None]

that's obvious, what's not obvious is where I am supposed to get it.

Spoiler

all of my chars are non-smoking, if I picked that particular brand would I get it in his inventory?

Spoiler

There's a merchant in the building to the north of the juvies who sells em