Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

PoE won't be early access because they have a zero-spoiler policy.

Quoted for posterity.

Here's something all Kickstarters are likely not going to discuss: How much of the Kickstarter funds have they spent and how much do they have left?

Fixed.

Because this isn't even months away from becoming a finished game. Divinity: Original Sin, now there's something that looks like it's maybe four months away from completion

Not sure everybody's in agreement with you there, sport. Why don't you play the game and decide for yourself?

 

[Rake]

is looking pretty accurate from where I'm standing.

I do hope you can admit you were wrong when Eternity's beta turns out to be just as ramshackle. Obsidian needs that Early Access cash more than inXile does and they can't delay it much!

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The whole backer portal deal with "more companions and more wilderness areas" new strech goals on the horizon is in fact a mini kickstarter for "we need more money guys in order to make the game even better" The more wilderness areas goal is so vargue that they could have told us "we just need more money". If they play their cards right with interesting strech goals, it could be posible to gather 500.000 to 1000000 without having to resort to EA release. But if needed they could do EA on top of that.
At this point i can't see Obsidian and inXile running out of money, unless they fuck it up big way.

 

[Sensuki]

Here's something all Kickstarters are likely not going to discuss: How much of the Kickstarter funds have they spent and how much do they have left?

Well other than Broken Age - mind you not an explicit amount but a "we will run out of money by X".

 

[codexian reject]

I suggested MMB instead of RMB because that way it would be the easiest for them to add full camera control without having to rethink their whole mouse interface.

Better use RF keys to change pitch angle and mouse scroll for zoom. Of course the center of rotation is always the point on the ground camera aim at, not a camera position itself, it's not a FPS.

Using a mouse movement for camera adjustement locks mouse from controling the game itself and interrupts the flow of gameplay and that is the main reason people hate adjusting camera.
When you hold a keyboard key to rotate camera, you can at the same time select with a mouse an action you want to perform next on a GUI. That way you won't loose a single second because of fiddling with camera angles.
I usually prefer to stick to one, perfect for me pitch angle and only rotate sideways, or zoom if needed, it is difficult to adjust only yaw angle without touching pitch angle with mouse controls, so that is another annoyance.

You can add an option to hold mouse button to rotate with a mouse, but make it sure that keyboard only controls for pitch and yaw angles are also possible.
You can even keep current camera controls as a default, as long as it can be changed to separate pitch angle/ zoom control with a toggle in the controls options menu.

 

[Infinitron]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The whole backer portal deal with "more companions and more wilderness areas" new strech goals on the horizon is in fact a mini kickstarter for "we need more money guys in order to make the game even better" The more wilderness areas goal is so vargue that they could have told us "we just need more money". If they play their cards right with interesting strech goals, it could be posible to gather 500.000 to 1000000 without having to resort to EA release. But if needed they could do EA on top of that.
At this point i can't see Obsidian and inXile running out of money, unless they fuck it up big way.

Through their site, you mean? I don't know, I'm not sure Obsidian has the marketing muscle to pull in those sums of money there. I guess we'll see what happens.

Anyway, let's not go off topic here.

 

[Roguey]

Fixed.

Before Shadowrun Returns had been released, Weisman let everyone know that they had run out of money and had to borrow more to finish it. And that was 15 months and a little less than 2 million total.

Not sure everybody's in agreement with you there, sport. Why don't you play the game and decide for yourself?

I can tell by looking. Anyone who thinks this can be polished within 4-6 months when it's so far away from the quality of the Original Sin alpha is delusional.

 

[Sensuki]

Using a mouse movement for camera adjustement locks mouse from controling the game itself and interrupts the flow of gameplay and that is the main reason people hate adjusting camera.
When you hold a keyboard key to rotate camera, you can at the same time select with a mouse an action you want to perform next on a GUI. That way you won't loose a single second because of fiddling with camera angles.
I usually prefer to stick to one, perfect for me pitch angle and only rotate sideways, or zoom if needed, it is difficult to adjust only yaw angle without touching pitch angle with mouse controls, so that is another annoyance.

You can add an option to hold mouse button to rotate with a mouse, but make it sure that keyboard only controls for pitch and yaw angles are also possible.
You can even keep current camera controls as a default, as long as it can be changed to separate pitch angle/ zoom control with a toggle in the controls options menu.

That's not how I play, I even play DotA2 using the mouse to move the camera. Their are already keyboard controls for the camera - it is the mouse control scheme that is suboptimal IMO. You would lose nothing from streamlining the split selection to LMB only.

 

[Davaris]

I can tell by looking. Anyone who thinks this can be polished within 4-6 months when it's so far away from the quality of the Original Sin alpha is delusional.

I haven't been able to play it, but from what people are saying, it sounds to me like it would have been better called an alpha. If 4-6 months is the end of the money, they want to make sure the editors are really good, so the community can add the reactivity.

 

[Infinitron]

I can tell by looking. Anyone who thinks this can be polished within 4-6 months when it's so far away from the quality of the Original Sin alpha is delusional.

I haven't been able to play it, but from what people are saying, it sounds to me like it would have been better called an alpha. If 4-6 months is the end of the money, they want to make sure the editors are really good, so the community can add the reactivity.

The point isn't how complete Wasteland 2; it's that I'm not sure that Original Sin is in that good of a shape. But we'll see when the D:OS alpha comes out...in two days?

 

[Sensuki]

Well even Alpha's are supposed to be feature complete - YMMV.

 

[Davaris]

I'm betting D:OS won't have anywhere near the bug problems W2 are having, because they are using the 'everything made in house philosophy'. But lets wait and see on that.

 

[felipepepe]

Not just that. He also said there wasn't enough of it. "NO TWO PLAYTHROUGHS WILL BE THE SAME IS A LIE!!", "Wasteland 2 will be never as replayable as Fallout", etc.

And I stand by those points, especially the replayability. It's a core design choice, mandatory 3 hour dungeons right at the start like Ag. Center are tiresome on multiple playthroughs.

Fallout 1 is so amazing because it doesn't have tiresome dungeons; even if you say that Military Base and the Master's Lair are dungeons, none of them are mandatory; you can sneak or talk your way past everything, you don't need to visit every area and they are end-game stuff. If people hated Temple of Trials in F2, and that could be run past through in like 5-10 minutes, what happens when W2 always force you to do either Highpool or Ag. Center every time you start a new game, and even rushing Ag. Center still take at least one hour?

Seriously, expect "skip Highpool/Ag. Center" mods.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Is there a beta update schedule plan in place Brother None ? In terms of contents.

 

[codexian reject]

That's not how I play, I even play DotA2 using the mouse to move the camera. Their are already keyboard controls for the camera - it is the mouse control scheme that is suboptimal IMO. You would lose nothing from streamlining the split selection to LMB only.

I don't have W2 beta access, so I have only second hand impressions about how it works currently.

What I mean is that, I controlled nwn2 for example like IE games or 2d RTS with panning camera a lot and somtimes rotating sideways to have a nice unobfuscated view on enemy position, instead of changing angles and zooming a lot.
I usually keep pitch angle and zoom untouched most of the time in these kind of games and current setup with QE to rotate sideways is perfect for me.
I am all for separating pitch angle and zoom, just don't take away an option for keyboard only sideways rotation, make both options available.
I don't know how mobas play, so can't say if their controls schemes are good fit for single player squad tactics games.

 

[Brother None]

And I stand by those points, especially the replayability. It's a core design choice, mandatory 3 hour dungeons right at the start like Ag. Center are tiresome on multiple playthroughs.

Well, there's a point of design philosophy in part though. This isn't a Fallout sequel after all, Wasteland had more "dungeon-like" locations with puzzles and many encounters, and so does Wasteland 2, it's more combat-focused than Fallout was, like "you can play the game without combat" was never a goal, and combat-filled maps are just a part of the experience. Don't get me wrong, I see your point, and yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see "skip" mods for those crisis locations so you can go right to hub-like locations. I do think they're more interesting than Fallout's early dungeon locations (rat caves, Vault 15, temple of trials), but yeah, they're alos much longer.

Is there a beta update schedule plan in place Brother None ? In terms of contents.

We likely won't talk about content updates until they're close to getting there. The back and forth on beta release certainly showed that's a good idea

 

[Sensuki]

I don't know how mobas play, so can't say if their controls schemes are good fit for single player squad tactics games.

Most of the top DotA and RTS players use the keyboard for camera control so they can (as you said) use the mouse to interact with the UI and game at the same time. At the beginning I thought the WL2 camera was keyboard only and I really don't like keyboard controlling camera - others who are obviously more native to it said that the key setup is fine.

The mouse control is split between zoom (mwheel, discrete zoom steps) and MOUSE3 (only left and right free rotate). They need to include up and down rotate and make the camera a freelook camera IMO, and I think their two button setup is clunky, it could easily be streamlined to a one button for all, and thus freeing up the RMB for the camera.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Well, you can shoot 'em, heh.

Spoiler

Listen to their banter for a while. They'll mention something they want and getting it for them will get them to bugger off.

Spoiler

Is there supposed to be some consequence to not getting rid of them? In my game I went up to the gate and opened it and nobody protested, do they give you a key or something if you give them the cigs? Just curious as to why I'd bother to get them out of the way at all.

Also,

Spoiler

Giant fucking rape rabbits.

I really like this game so far, I luckily haven't experienced too many bugs and no game breaking ones. I don't feel obligated to add , like SRR, I think it's just good. Looking forward to the complete game. Also, will the final game have skills affect all of the things listed by them? I find it strange that it shows those statistics for some weapons and not others, even though the skills don't affect them. EW skill giving no effects also disappointing, I take that with a grain of salt as I assume it isn't implemented. (I better be right.)

Also, rebalance initiative, it's stupidly overpowered.

 

[felipepepe]

And I stand by those points, especially the replayability. It's a core design choice, mandatory 3 hour dungeons right at the start like Ag. Center are tiresome on multiple playthroughs.

Well, there's a point of design philosophy in part though. This isn't a Fallout sequel after all, Wasteland had more "dungeon-like" locations with puzzles and many encounters, and so does Wasteland 2, it's more combat-focused than Fallout was, like "you can play the game without combat" was never a goal, and combat-filled maps are just a part of the experience. Don't get me wrong, I see your point, and yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see "skip" mods for those crisis locations so you can go right to hub-like locations. I do think they're more interesting than Fallout's early dungeon locations (rat caves, Vault 15, temple of trials), but yeah, they're alos much longer.

And I don't think it's a bad decision. I absolute adore blobbers, but they are mostly 1-playthrough games. Exploring huge dungeons and such is fun, but re-doing them is usually a pain, as you already know where to go and what's to come. Not even a die-hard Wizardry fan will tell you that is fun to replay Wizardry games 2-3 times in a row... you burn out quickly. And they are still fantastic games.

 

[FeelTheRads]

If you wanted so much to keep it faithful to W1 maybe you should have kept the fast combat system?
Otherwise.. well, it's like Wasteland, but not really, but what did you expect JA2 and Fallout lol

 

[Brother None]

Well, you can shoot 'em, heh.

Spoiler

Listen to their banter for a while. They'll mention something they want and getting it for them will get them to bugger off.

Spoiler

Is there supposed to be some consequence to not getting rid of them? In my game I went up to the gate and opened it and nobody protested, do they give you a key or something if you give them the cigs? Just curious as to why I'd bother to get them out of the way at all.

Also,

Spoiler

Giant fucking rape rabbits.

Spoiler

Maybe there's a bug here, but you're not supposed to be able to recruit Vultures-Cry without getting rid of the juvies. I don't think anyone stops you if you unlock the gate, though the security chief confronts you about it later (or should).

Love the bunnies

 

[Crooked Bee]

I can tell by looking. Anyone who thinks this can be polished within 4-6 months when it's so far away from the quality of the Original Sin alpha is delusional.

6 months is a lot of (crunch) time though. And now that they have additional revenue from Early Access, perhaps they can afford to push it back as far as necessary.

 

[Daedalos]

Brother None:

You say the focus of WL2 is more combat-oriented. So what's your take on the differences between fallout combat and WL2 combat. Are you guys not interested in bringing aspects of what worked in fallout combat into WL2?

Skill-shots, targeted fire and such?

And what about perks? Will they exist at all in some form ?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Lyin's

I know you're very pleased with yourself after each iteration of a fake derogatory replacement name, but...like a three year old who just learned the word 'fart'...you really shouldn't be. You're a pretty crappy version of a clever person.

 

[DragoFireheart]

And I don't think it's a bad decision. I absolute adore blobbers, but they are mostly 1-playthrough games. Exploring huge dungeons and such is fun, but re-doing them is usually a pain, as you already know where to go and what's to come. Not even a die-hard Wizardry fan will tell you that is fun to replay Wizardry games 2-3 times in a row... you burn out quickly. And they are still fantastic games.

That's funny coming from our local jRPG fan. jRPGs are about as blobber as they get.

 

[sea]

I can tell by looking. Anyone who thinks this can be polished within 4-6 months when it's so far away from the quality of the Original Sin alpha is delusional.

I think Original Sin is looking great, but that's mostly UI and visuals. Most of the sound isn't implemented yet, the game is still buggy (it broke during Larian's recent live stream for instance) and frankly we have not seen a lot of the game that hasn't been heavily manicured. Plus, Original Sin has been in development for longer and likely has a bigger budget (or one that can be stretched more).