The Witcher 3 Pre-Expansion Thread

[Mrowak]

I really wanted to like Twitcher 3, but I must agree with muds_animal_friend. As a visual novel it's great, but as an actual game it sucks pretty hard.

Then we are back at square one. We need to ask ourselves yet again, "what is an RPG?". Incoming 120 pages worth of hopeless drivel.

Or give ourselves a break and start enjoying things for what they are, RPG, arcade game, visual novel or whatnot.

I don't really care if this game is an RPG or not, what I care about is whether the gameplay is good. It's just good enough in a lot of cases, but as a whole it's subpar. In the individual execution it can be decent, but there's just so much of it piled on MMO-style that I can't imagine anyone who doesn't find it a chore. Ironically TW3 is the most fun when you put yourself on railroads by doing one major quest after another. It's a JRPG with less grinding, and doing it better than most JRPGs do these days.

Good. I don't fully agree, as I quite enjoyed some contracts and general exploration, but each to his own.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

That's because weapon damage scales proportionally to enemy HP.

What would you prefer for higher level monsters then? Let's say you meet a level 30 moster when you're level 12, what's the ultimate Roxor design nobody thought of yet?

Roll, roll, quen, roll, roll. Win. 20xp at best. Shit game is shit. Shit. Boring, poorly designed shit which, frankly, depressed me as the future of RPGs. Not one fight in the game that I couldn't win without investing more four points in character development, and none of those points were strictly combat related. Terrible fucking game. Terrible. Boring. Empty. Shit combat. Meaningless open world. Pointless itemization. Irrelevant character development. Storyfags gonna fag.

Fascinating... You make Hiver look like a sane person.

There should be no HP scaling.

I think you'd like Oblivion. Different mechanics, same result.

something something Derp Souls

In other words:
"I suck at games with actuall good and demanding gameplay design therefore i dismiss anything related to them"

Well what could i expect from potato that liked assassins shit unity? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Dookins]

shitty analogy that misses my point

Half this thread is sucking T3 cock as a good game. It isn't a good game. Isn't is a good RPG. It isn't a good action game. It isn't any sort of good game. It's an interactive movie. Nothing more. That's my point.

IMO, TW3 is still the best piece of storyfagottry effort since PS:T.

Mask of the Betrayer and Anachronox both came after PS:T, so get the fuck out.

Not to mention VtMB, KotOR 2, Arcanum, BG2, Dark Souls and any number of small titles like geneforge and weeboo games like Nocturne.

Huh, apparently how much you like a game or general game quality = writing. While agreeing that all these games are superior from a general standpoint, I'd say it would be hard to claim with a straight face that Dark Souls or BG2 have better writing. Also, fuck yeah, Nocturne. Shame the series went to shit afterwards, but at least it had a memorable high point.

 

[cvv]

A really good review from the illustrious GameBanshee, whoever's writing the oficial Codex review has a high bar to clear indeed.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/reviews/115637-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt-review/page-6.html

 

[bonescraper]

That's because weapon damage scales proportionally to enemy HP.

No, it's not weapon damage, it's enemy HP that scales to your level. You are advocating for what is effectively reverse level scaling, are you fucking insane.

What would you prefer for higher level monsters then? Let's say you meet a level 30 moster when you're level 12, what's the ultimate Roxor design nobody thought of yet?

The same ultimate design that nobody thought of yet that was already in Gothic 1 and 2. Where the difficulty of powerful enemies is not arbitrary bullshit.

Ahh, Gothic, the perfect game that never was.




Stop namedropping and address my question. Lvl 12 vs lvl 30, what then?

n other words:
"I suck at games with actuall good and demanding gameplay design therefore i dismiss anything related to them"

Well what could i expect from potato that liked assassins shit unity? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Starwars]

I'm still only in the White Orchard area so this may be rather pre-mature but does anyone have a feeling of the graphics being somewhat... erm... I dunno, overdone? I mean, it still has that excellent Witcher atmosphere. But the way lighting falls, sunsets and sunrises, movement in trees, bushes and grasses. It's hard to explain but it's like how I would imagine a bipolar person would view the world while in his manic phase. It pulses with life, but too much.

Perhaps I'm just not used to next-gen grafix yet.

Is there a good mod for toning some of that shit down, like the colors in sunsets and so forth? There are like a million up on the nexus so a bit hard to choose.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Stop namedropping and address my question. Lvl 12 vs lvl 30, what then?

The same thing as in those two vids of the "game that never was" that you posted. You clench your butt or you die.

A 12 vs 30 fight is much easier to anticipate, however, because with that big of a level discrepancy, you should be getting killed in one hit and you should be doing less damage than usual (but twitch3r's GOOD LUCK, I'M BEHIND 100K HP is idiotic here regardless), that's just logical. But now you can go ahead and tell me what sense does it make and how great of a design it is when the same happens when you meet a lvl 16 enemy at lvl 10, and how it miraculously turns into a steamroll once you get to lvl 11.

 

[cvv]

it's like how I would imagine a bipolar person would view the world while in his manic phase

Holy shit that's the best analogy I have seen yet.

TW2 colours, lightning and bloom was like playing the game with a healthy dose of magic mushrooms in your bloodstream. TW3 threw in the added effect of epileptic flora. I'm not sure what CDPR wanted to achieve with that but I've seen a couple of Kwan reviews and LPs and all of them have this moment when the dude is slowly panning the camera, taking in the nuclear retina-destroying sunset and saying "wow, the game is really stunning".

So maybe those wily Poles know their target audience quite well after all.

twitch3r's GOOD LUCK, I'M BEHIND 100K HP is idiotic here regardless

I think it's not HP bloat but rather damage resistance. Somebody on the CDPR forums mentioned it's 95 percent DR for mobs 6 or more levels higher. Might've pulled it from his ass but I find it more believable than 100K HP.

 

[Dookins]

That's because weapon damage scales proportionally to enemy HP.

No, it's not weapon damage, it's enemy HP that scales to your level. You are advocating for what is effectively reverse level scaling, are you fucking insane.

What would you prefer for higher level monsters then? Let's say you meet a level 30 moster when you're level 12, what's the ultimate Roxor design nobody thought of yet?

The same ultimate design that nobody thought of yet that was already in Gothic 1 and 2. Where the difficulty of powerful enemies is not arbitrary bullshit.

Ahh, Gothic, the perfect game that never was.

It's a consistency thing. He even specifies by saying "arbitrary". While mechanically it might seem similar, if it's just a matter of going up a level regardless of character stats or equipment then it effectively belittles both those aspects.

 

[Mrowak]

A really good review from the illustrious GameBanshee, whoever's writing the oficial Codex review has a high bar to clear indeed.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/reviews/115637-the-witcher-3-wild-hunt-review/page-6.html

Pretty much sums up my thoughts about TW3. Well, maybe I would whine more about ending segment and retcons, but that's me.

 

[bonescraper]

Stop namedropping and address my question. Lvl 12 vs lvl 30, what then?

The same thing as in those two vids of the "game that never was" that you posted. You clench your butt or you die.

A 12 vs 30 fight is much easier to anticipate, however, because with that big of a level discrepancy, you should be getting killed in one hit and you should be doing less damage than usual (but twitch3r's GOOD LUCK, I'M BEHIND 100K HP is idiotic here regardless), that's just logical. But now you can go ahead and tell me what sense does it make and how great of a design it is when the same happens when you meet a lvl 16 enemy at lvl 10, and how it miraculously turns into a steamroll once you get to lvl 11.

Dude, i just fought two 6 level higher Foggers, and i counted how many hits it took me to kill them. 5. 5 fucking sword hits. What's your fucking problem? They were level 27 i am level 21 and i'm using a level 21 silver sword. Also, i fought a level 30 ice elemental on level 20 and it was far from impossible. It was a tough fight (boss-fight-like acceptable length), and i didn't have to resort to cheese tactics.

So, either you suck at this game, or character builds actually matter and that damage boost you get from them (with two first sword talents maxed out you do a whopping 2x more damage with that attack).

 

[krist2]

I'm still only in the White Orchard area so this may be rather pre-mature but does anyone have a feeling of the graphics being somewhat... erm... I dunno, overdone? I mean, it still has that excellent Witcher atmosphere. But the way lighting falls, sunsets and sunrises, movement in trees, bushes and grasses. It's hard to explain but it's like how I would imagine a bipolar person would view the world while in his manic phase. It pulses with life, but too much.

Perhaps I'm just not used to next-gen grafix yet.

Is there a good mod for toning some of that shit down, like the colors in sunsets and so forth? There are like a million up on the nexus so a bit hard to choose.

Had the same thoughts, using this:
http://reshade.me/#download

with this preset:
http://sfx.thelazy.net/games/preset/3718/

Really much more pleasing to the eye for my part, no more eye strain... :D

 

[Dookins]

Stop namedropping and address my question. Lvl 12 vs lvl 30, what then?

The same thing as in those two vids of the "game that never was" that you posted. You clench your butt or you die.

A 12 vs 30 fight is much easier to anticipate, however, because with that big of a level discrepancy, you should be getting killed in one hit and you should be doing less damage than usual (but twitch3r's GOOD LUCK, I'M BEHIND 100K HP is idiotic here regardless), that's just logical. But now you can go ahead and tell me what sense does it make and how great of a design it is when the same happens when you meet a lvl 16 enemy at lvl 10, and how it miraculously turns into a steamroll once you get to lvl 11.

Dude, i just fought two 6 level higher Foggers, and i counted how many hits it took me to kill them. 5. 5 fucking sword hits. What's your fucking problem? They were level 27 i am level 21 and i'm using a level 21 silver sword. Also, i fought a level 30 ice elemental on level 20 and it was far from impossible. It was a tough fight (boss-fight-like acceptable length), and i didn't have to resort to cheese tactics.

So, either you suck at this game, or character builds actually matter and that damage boost you get from them (with two first sword talents maxed out you do a whopping 2x more damage with that attack).

I'd say it's more a matter of unlocking mutagen and skill slots. While the +25% (not 100%) damage from those first tier skills is nice, they sorta pale in comparison to the potential +90 or 100% just from having any red skill slotted with the appropriate mutagen at that level. Also, from my playthrough it seemed certain enemies always had kind of bullshit HP/DR. Specifically at endgame, sitting at 3000+ dps (how is that even calculated in a real time game like this?), Wild Hunt warriors went down in one or two fast hits, but the hounds took a good 4 or 5. Mind you, they were all around 28 while I was 34.

 

[Darth Roxor]

So, either you suck at this game, or character builds actually matter and that damage boost you get from them

Nigga, I tested this. Remember this village overrun by wraiths in south Velen? They are all level 16. At level 10 I go there and get murdered - they take me down with like 2-3 hits and I can barely scratch them with my sword (roughly 250 damage per hit).

Ding, I go up to level 11, return to the village. Wraiths no longer have a skull, I have no new gear. Suddenly, the wraiths die in some 6 hits (still 250 damage per hit) and damage me for like 15% hp/hit. It's a kinda magic!

Maybe it gets more bearable later when Gerald becomes an ubermensch or something, but right now it's making me pretty furious.

 

[hivemind]

get gud nerd

 

[Roguey]

Haha not even Larian fans would defend this mechanic in Divinity 2 pre-DKS and Original Sin. Kielbasa brains go the extra mile.

 

[Dookins]

Guess we can call bullshit on the "no level scaling" claim then.

 

[toro]

... some shit ...

I finished DS/DS2 long time ago and Witcher 3 combat is shit compared to those games. In fact the combat is shit on its own.

This scaling didn't stop me from killing mobs with 9 lvls above me. However this is possible only with certain mobs and for example not with Earth Elemental.

I've spent 2h trying to kill a fucking Earth Elemental but I couldn't because my damage per hit was <1%. I had to give up. Not because I couldn't do it but because it would have taken me too long (also I was killed in one hit).

Needless to say that I killed that shit in 5-6 hits when I returned with the "correct" level.

They should have not implemented any level scaling. That's a fair complain.

 

[cvv]

I killed that shit in 5-6 hits when I returned with the "correct" level.

They should have not implemented any level scaling.

Seems to me some Codexers itt are fatally confused about what level scaling means just saying.

 

[toro]

To be honest there is one way to kill high level mobs: Wyvern decoction - Each attack increases attack power until fight ends or damage is taken.

This decoction and Queen trivialize the entire combat.

 

[toro]

I killed that shit in 5-6 hits when I returned with the "correct" level.

They should have not implemented any level scaling.

Seems to me some Codexers itt are catastrophically confused about what level scaling means just saying.

It's one form of level scaling. Can you be less anal?

 

[cvv]

I killed that shit in 5-6 hits when I returned with the "correct" level.

They should have not implemented any level scaling.

Seems to me some Codexers itt are catastrophically confused about what level scaling means just saying.

It's one form of level scaling. Can you be less anal?

Sure I can. Level scaling is when enemies go up in level alongside you.

TW3 uses a sort of level gating, so you can realistically beat certain mobs only after reaching certain level. Which is the exact opposite of level scalling. Problem is in TW3 it's done quite awkwardly. As Roxor says the jump between "can't beat" vs "can beat" is too jarring. I understand level gating is much, much harder to do in an action game then in a TB game - both PB and From Software completely failed at that - but still, TW3 doesn't use the most elegant solution I've ever seen, true that.

 

[Dookins]

Seems like semantics to me. If an enemy was taking the exact same damage yet had a higher hp total when you're level 10 vs when you're level 11, how was it not scaled up in the earlier example?

Also: Hi ghostdog, thanks for all the PS:T mods.

 

[ghostdog]

Dude it's obvious that it's you who doesn't understand what level scaling is. What you describe is witcher 3 IS level scaling. Enemy scaling doesn't have to be parallel to your level. Do the enemy's stats/level change depending on your level ? Is that a yes ? Then it's level scaling.

 

[toro]

I killed that shit in 5-6 hits when I returned with the "correct" level.

They should have not implemented any level scaling.

Seems to me some Codexers itt are catastrophically confused about what level scaling means just saying.

It's one form of level scaling. Can you be less anal?

Sure I can. Level scaling is when enemies go up in level alongside you.

TW3 uses a sort of level gating, so you can realistically beat certain mobs only after reaching certain level. Which is the exact opposite of level scalling. Problem is in TW3 it's done quite awkwardly. As Roxor says the jump between "can't beat" vs "can beat" is too jarring. I understand level gating is much, much harder to do in an action game then in a TB game - both PB and From Software completely failed at that - but still, TW3 doesn't use the most elegant solution I've ever seen, true that.

Nope. Level scaling means that the mobs properties (HP, speed or some other shit) depend on the player level.

In Witcher 3 mobs become easier to kill proportionally with the level difference between the mob and Geralt. This is scaling although each mob has an initial level set by the developer.

Neither From Software or PB's games have this level gating as you call it.