Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[newtmonkey]

I'd have to check, but my mages might be a level or two behind my other characters (they don't have any points in level 7 spells). I am pretty certain they both have 18 INT, as rolling decent bonus points is trivial in the PSX version, so they might just be one level away from getting their first points in level 7. I at least want to get the teleport spell before I make another attempt.

 

[octavius]

If were to Iron Man Wizardry 1 again, I think I'd grind until all my characters have more than 100 HP, even if grinding is against my convictions. That way you are assured of surviving a TILTOWAIT from Werdna.
As it was I had to un-ironman myself for the last battle (backing up the save file), and needed two tries.

 

[Tigranes]

With my first ever full run of Wiz1 successful, I moved on to Wiz6 as some of you know. Now I've put in a few hours and I've just jumped a deep chasm with rope and hook.

So far - and I accept that this is oh so preliminary - Wiz6 seems like the bigger game, Wiz1 feels like the better game.

Most additions jumping from Wiz1 to 6 are positive ones; more spells, more classes, more options, more detail, etc. But Wiz1 has a clean and pure intensity in how it plays. You're on level 3, you want to get to level 4, and there are a clear and finite set of resources and dangers to think about. You get in the zone. Similarly, I enjoyed UU1's level system far more than UU2. Playing Wiz6, I find myself backtracking a lot more across different areas, trying different keys on each door, fighting a lot more random encounters, getting more bogged down - even though I found it really interesting to, say, hear more about the royal family's rooms and the fate of the skeletons on the floor. (It's really long-winded though. Hilariously, if we copied and pasted the same lines onto POE everybody would be talking about the verbose narration. I do think it's more appropriate here, at least.)

The weirdest point for me is how I played Grimoire before playing Wiz6. Now I see how Grimoire is an extremely close copy/homage/variant in many ways, right down to things like the design of the alcoves in the walls. So it's a weird position where it feels like if I want a 'big' Wizardry, then Grimoire is the superior version. Time will tell as I keep playing 6. (Who knows, maybe I'll also revisit 8 after my 5 hour stint 20 years ago.)

BTW running I suppose a pretty humdrum party of Samurai, Valkyrie, Ninja, Bard, Priest, Mage. The Samurai and Valk started as Priest and Mage for just one level, though I'm not sure if it was really worth it. The Priest is now approaching level 7ish and I would make her a Valk too, but there seems to be so many useful higher level spells to earn. As with Grimoire, it feels like bard sleep is your Awesome Button for the first few hours.

 

[Strange Fellow]

aweigh brofists this.

 

[octavius]

Currently playing Wizardy Gaiden IV, and it's a curious mixture of Wiz 1-3 and Wiz 6-7, and with only half the monster names translated to English. Funnily enough the Samurai is said to be an "expert on foreign weapons".
There's little incentive to change classes, since there's no skill points, except maybe to get a Ninja eventually. So if you roll long enough you can start with any class but Ninja. I decided to roll 20 characters and pick the best, to make things more interesting. Seems like a good choice, since the game is quite easy so far; easier than Wiz 1. None of the chests so far have been trapped, for example.
OTOH Sleep is not so effective, and there's more events on the first dungeon level, and I've found no less than three stairs so far, so it looks like the level design could be interesting.

 

[Jason Liang]

With my first ever full run of Wiz1 successful, I moved on to Wiz6 as some of you know. Now I've put in a few hours and I've just jumped a deep chasm with rope and hook.

So far - and I accept that this is oh so preliminary - Wiz6 seems like the bigger game, Wiz1 feels like the better game.

Most additions jumping from Wiz1 to 6 are positive ones; more spells, more classes, more options, more detail, etc. But Wiz1 has a clean and pure intensity in how it plays. You're on level 3, you want to get to level 4, and there are a clear and finite set of resources and dangers to think about. You get in the zone. Similarly, I enjoyed UU1's level system far more than UU2. Playing Wiz6, I find myself backtracking a lot more across different areas, trying different keys on each door, fighting a lot more random encounters, getting more bogged down - even though I found it really interesting to, say, hear more about the royal family's rooms and the fate of the skeletons on the floor. (It's really long-winded though. Hilariously, if we copied and pasted the same lines onto POE everybody would be talking about the verbose narration. I do think it's more appropriate here, at least.)

The weirdest point for me is how I played Grimoire before playing Wiz6. Now I see how Grimoire is an extremely close copy/homage/variant in many ways, right down to things like the design of the alcoves in the walls. So it's a weird position where it feels like if I want a 'big' Wizardry, then Grimoire is the superior version. Time will tell as I keep playing 6. (Who knows, maybe I'll also revisit 8 after my 5 hour stint 20 years ago.)

BTW running I suppose a pretty humdrum party of Samurai, Valkyrie, Ninja, Bard, Priest, Mage. The Samurai and Valk started as Priest and Mage for just one level, though I'm not sure if it was really worth it. The Priest is now approaching level 7ish and I would make her a Valk too, but there seems to be so many useful higher level spells to earn. As with Grimoire, it feels like bard sleep is your Awesome Button for the first few hours.

Should play Wiz 5 and Wiz 4 (probably in that order).

And there is no shame in using save states for either.

 

[Tigranes]

A couple hours on, my party is ~level 9. I'm in what I think is the approach to the Mountain, having plumbed the depths of the mine caves.

My earlier impressions have strengthened, and honestly it's a bit of a slog at the moment. I'm really not a fan of how much backtracking and back-and-forth you need to do if you don't have a walkthrough - maybe you didn't fully explore that one area back there and they had the key to this door 3 levels down, but which key opens which door isn't always clear either. The whole 'go up and down the mines chipping the diamond' thing was really wearisome.

The thing is, in Wizardry 1, any such moving around would have been exciting and meaningful because you're watching your resources dwindle and wondering if you can make it before going back to town. Here, as far as I can tell, you just rest anywhere as often as you like, and encountering your twentieth group of wyrms or dwarves is just a boring chore. Even if you look at a relatively light experience like Etrian Odyssey, the best moments are when you're trying to see how far you can make it on a new floor, and not when you are traipsing back and forth doing fetch quests. I really think a simple "one level after the next, a steady increase of danger and dread" model is the best.

Also, that Xorphitus guy, jesus. Talked about as long as a Pillars of Eternity narrator, and about as interesting.

That said, I certainly don't think it's a bad game or not worth playing today. It retains many core strengths. Exploring new levels is exciting, the combat system is fairly robust (though enemies seem far, far less capable of fucking you over), and some of the new stuff like the puzzles are very nice.

 

[Grauken]

... trying to see how far you can make it on a new floor, and not when you are traipsing back and forth doing fetch quests. I really think a simple "one level after the next, a steady increase of danger and dread" model is the best.

It suits the early Wizardry games well, but I def. prefer W6 and onward. I think you fault the game for something it just isn't, this was never intended to be like this and obviously if you expect this kind of gameplay, it doesn't feel as good. Me, I loved the mines, the back and forth, etc.

 

[Shin]

quick question; I looked up the things I could 'miss' and found out I might've missed out on the 'map of legends'. The chest in old city was empty . How do I know which NPC took it? Should I go kill all wandering NPC's I meet to have a chance to get it?

 

[k0syak]

Technically, it's the only *map* you need. Don't have to kill NPCs, trading or stealing is an option.

 

[Melan]

Here is a question only the autists prestigious experts at the Codex could know the answer for. In the credits for Crusaders, the following people are credited for graphics:

Does anyone know who among them drew the creature sprites?

 

[Grauken]

Interview with Robert Woodhead

 

[Grauken]

I like how humble he remains about the whole thing, that they were at the right time / right place to make it happen and just incredibly lucky in many ways. And while he likes Fallout 4 and the Witcher, he still clearly has retained some of his old sensibilities when it comes to challenge in games and clearly understands the appeal of his own games. Was amusing to see him thinking of implementing a routine that made it more likely to get attacked by a powerful enemy when you were clearly on the way back to the city to get some rest.

 

[Viata]

Was amusing to see him thinking of implementing a routine that made it more likely to get attacked by a powerful enemy when you were clearly on the way back to the city to get some rest.

Tbh, that is one hell of an idea. Can't you think how mad you would feel if you were like 3 steps from getting back to the city and get attacked from some enemy one level below the lowest level you went so far?

 

[Grauken]

It was pretty much inspired by people telling him that it happened to them, by chance (and funnily enough most of them liked the experience). Imagine a modern developer trying to do something like that

 

[TigerKnee]

What do you guys think of his opinion that the NES version of Wiz 1 was the best one?

Given that a lot of people didn't seem to like the dungeon changes.

 

[Grauken]

Never played it. I like the SNES ones for the pixel look, but the PSX ones are more accurate according to aweigh, who is probably right as our current Wizardry-maniac

 

[Jason Liang]

The NES version has the same artwork as the SNES version, just less colorful and defined. Also it doesn't have the SNES automap feature, so DUMAPIC only gives you the basic information from the DOS games - coordinates and facing which direction. So its a good balance between stark bare (DOS) and fancy (SNES, PSX).

Wizardry obviously plays well with the NES 2 button AB controller.

 

[gman42]

So it was fun finding this thread and grinding through big chunks of it (admittedly not all 6000+ posts). I'm kinda old so I played most of the Wizardry series pretty much as they came out...I remember playing the older DOS version of Wiz I that was basically the same as the Apple II version, complete with tiny dungeon viewport in the corner, having to type full spell names out (and if you fat-fingered it it'd basically count as a fizzle), etc. Fun times.

Anyway the thread has inspired me to revisit 6-8 for another run (really original idea, I know) after not touching it for over a decade. My plan:

I'll probably play on expert. I was never a huge fan of class changing, but I think I might start off 6 with a little bit of cheese (because why not)...roll characters with 20+ bonus points, but start off as pure magic classes for the MP regen bonus, switch immediately to something like ninja to pick up points in ninjutsu/kirijutsu, then keep one character as ninja (a faerie, of course) and change the rest to their final classes as soon as I can. Then kinda play thematically and keep everybody as is throughout the rest of the run. Because I barely did any class changing the first time around and never really replayed the games, I want to try a few classes I never got to experience, along with some tried and true ones, just because I want to max out my ability to carry all the top weapons and armor that turn up. Was thinking something like Valkyrie, Samurai, Ninja (had all these the first time around), Ranger (probably an Elf so I can carry the Elven Bow through all 3 games), Monk (never had access to Psionic spellbook before, and Z-Bo is attainable in all 3 games so why not) and Bard (who I know varies widely in effectiveness depending on the game stage, but dammit I'm sick of finding instruments everywhere and not being able to use em).

I know the all-hybrid group is hard to develop but playing on Expert should help with leveling, and I don't mind grinding. Actually for me half the fun is getting to that point where you mow down everything, and honestly when I play 8 I'll probably savescum heavily to re-obtain all the top weapons again. Honestly I can see myself holding back a save before the endgame, just so I can fire up the game every once in a while to murder stuff on Ascension Peak. Hell, I can have a competition with myself to see what happens first, grinding to level 50 or dying of boredom.

Cheat-wise I'll probably just go with the ones that give me good bonus rolls with less grinding, and the fixing of the top level spell bug (those are both done with the CF editor, right)? Otherwise no patches outside of WizFast for 8.

A few questions:
--Is there a 3rd party automapper that actually works? I know there's one out there, but I remember people complaining that in Wiz6 you'd lose everything when you quit the game. Is that stilll the case?
--When I import to Wiz7 does MP regen value carry over from 6, or does it get set again based on current class? I just remember spell point recovery being super painful in that game.
--I'm torn about one character decision. I've heard so much talk of how much of a fun killing machine the rogue is in Wiz 8 that I really want one, but carrying a thief through 6 and 7 seems boring (feel free to change my view!). Was thinking of making that my one exception to the non class changing, maybe running with a bard through 6/7 and then changing her to a rogue after importing to 8. Since I get 5 levelups after import, I was thinking I could take those as bard just to be able to use a handful of instruments still, then switch to rogue and go from there. Does that make any sense or would she just lag behind everyone else and be mediocre at both music and melee?

 

[Grauken]

Well, you could go with GridCartographer, but that costs you at least $19

 

[cocorulverde]

Here you go, my good man.

https://www.moddb.com/mods/wizardry-6-automap-mod/downloads/wizardry-6-automap-mod-12 - for wiz6
https://www.moddb.com/mods/wizardry-7-automap-mod - for wiz7

https://www.eskimo.com/~edv/lockscroll/WhereAreWe/ - WhereAreWe. For MM1-5, BT1-3 and Wiz1-5.

 

[Roqua]

A few questions:
--Is there a 3rd party automapper that actually works? I know there's one out there, but I remember people complaining that in Wiz6 you'd lose everything when you quit the game. Is that stilll the case?
--When I import to Wiz7 does MP regen value carry over from 6, or does it get set again based on current class? I just remember spell point recovery being super painful in that game.
--I'm torn about one character decision. I've heard so much talk of how much of a fun killing machine the rogue is in Wiz 8 that I really want one, but carrying a thief through 6 and 7 seems boring (feel free to change my view!). Was thinking of making that my one exception to the non class changing, maybe running with a bard through 6/7 and then changing her to a rogue after importing to 8. Since I get 5 levelups after import, I was thinking I could take those as bard just to be able to use a handful of instruments still, then switch to rogue and go from there. Does that make any sense or would she just lag behind everyone else and be mediocre at both music and melee?

I don't think spell point recovery from a prior class carries over, but I'm not sure. I never found it an issue with 7. But some advice for Wiz7 is the cosmic forge editor as it has some fixes and optional fixes and class improvements that I find really great.
In wiz8 you get a rogue as an npc. Bard's fast resting is a huge benefit I find in 8. Since all the npcs leave for one specific area/map I try and keep the really beneficial stuff in my main party.

 

[Serus]

A few questions:
--Is there a 3rd party automapper that actually works? I know there's one out there, but I remember people complaining that in Wiz6 you'd lose everything when you quit the game. Is that stilll the case?
--When I import to Wiz7 does MP regen value carry over from 6, or does it get set again based on current class? I just remember spell point recovery being super painful in that game.
--I'm torn about one character decision. I've heard so much talk of how much of a fun killing machine the rogue is in Wiz 8 that I really want one, but carrying a thief through 6 and 7 seems boring (feel free to change my view!). Was thinking of making that my one exception to the non class changing, maybe running with a bard through 6/7 and then changing her to a rogue after importing to 8. Since I get 5 levelups after import, I was thinking I could take those as bard just to be able to use a handful of instruments still, then switch to rogue and go from there. Does that make any sense or would she just lag behind everyone else and be mediocre at both music and melee?

I don't think spell point recovery from a prior class carries over, but I'm not sure. I never found it an issue with 7. But some advice for Wiz7 is the cosmic forge editor as it has some fixes and optional fixes and class improvements that I find really great.
In wiz8 you get a rogue as an npc. Bard's fast resting is a huge benefit I find in 8. Since all the npcs leave for one specific area/map I try and keep the really beneficial stuff in my main party.

Good that you are not sure then because you're incorrect. Spell point recovery rate is set when you make the character and so it depends on your first class. That's why for pure min-maxing starting with caster classes with additional stat points then immediately switching to hybrid classes (for better hp and hit chances per level than with casters, and of curse for skills, especially ninjutsu) is a good strategy. At least this is how it works in W7, which means with 99% probability that it works the same in W6.
All assuming you want to min-max like crazy of curse.

 

[octavius]

Starting out with hybrid classes in Wiz 7 may not be such a good idea, since they both level slower and gain less of those oh so precious (magic at least) skill points than base classes.
OTOH if you import from Wiz 6 base classes won't be able to use much of the imported items...

 

[Serus]

Starting out with hybrid classes in Wiz 7 may not be such a good idea, since they both level slower and gain less of those oh so precious (magic at least) skill points than base classes.

Yep, but for a true and hardcore min-maxer(tm) added difficulty in very early game doesn't matter, only the end result does. Don't ask me why, its' how min-maxing logic works. Besides, it doesn't really matter in the long run because in Wizardry 7 (and I assume probably in 6 as well) you can level and re-level low levels over and over by changing classes practically ad infinitum, using one of the infinite enemy respawning points in early game. In consequence you can have as much spell points and skill points as your patience and sanity allows. Again, all this assuming you're into this kind of abuse of the system. What you cannot get trough grind is the mana regen rates though, those are set when choosing your first class.
On the other hand if you don't want to grind skill and spell points that way, then going spell caster -> class with ninjutsu -> final class is probably not a bad idea. Still, min-maxed but without all the grind. But on yet another hand spell points recovery rate is not THAT important iirc, so it's all a moot point.