Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Tweed]

Wizardry II: The Knight of Diamonds

Four floors down, this game seems almost unnecessary. I'm enjoying it so far, it's almost like a victory lap for your party after the struggle of Wiz 1, but beyond the excitement of getting ridiculously powerful equipment there's really not much to look forward to, in terms of character development. The maps are okay so far, though it's annoying getting back and forth (Malor doesn't seem to work on floor 2, the one floor on which I wish I could just teleport straight to the stairs).

I mean, it's running on the Wizardry system, so that still makes it better than 99% of contemporary RPGs. I guess that's why I'm trying to blow through this one to get on with Wiz 3 and (especially) Wiz 5. I'll save Wiz 4 for when I'm retired and more in the mindset of Werdna.

I imagine playing this without backing up your save disk would be some crazy mixture of intense anxiety when playing the game, and massive end-of-world butthurt (when you teleport into stone and lose your party and have to start all over from WIZARDRY 1), but fuck that, I'm backing my save up every night.

Pretty much. The last few armor battles an be a real nightmare though and getting the staff itself can be kind of tricky depending on what you bump into.

 

[newtmonkey]

Exhuminator
I remember buying TotFS back when it came out and getting quite addicted to it, but lost interest for the same reason (plus the generally slow pace). If any game needs a Wiz 1-like elevator, it's TotFS for sure!

Tweed
Well, at least I have that to look forward to haha

 

[newtmonkey]

Wizardry II
I was wrong in my last post, I only had 3 floors done, so I did floor 4 just now.

- You can get multiple copies of the quest armor pieces?!?!?! On my way down to floor 4 I went through the room where you fight the Sword, and the encounter popped even though I already defeated it, and now I have two Hrathnir swords. That sure made Kod's Helm an easy fight—too easy, so I might drop that second sword (if that's even possible).

- You can't seem to Malor within floor 2, but you can Malor to or through it, so that makes things MUCH quicker.

I'll probably finish this this week. Looking forward to Wizardry III!

 

[Tweed]

I think it depends on which version of the game you have. The very first time I played it was just some copy I snagged off of an abandonware site and I got multiple encounters with armor, but I also had some kind of bug that kept me from finishing. As far as I know the archives version is one to a customer or at least it was when I played.

 

[newtmonkey]

That's interesting, I am actually playing the Ultimate Archives version (actual physical copy). It makes no sense, but I wonder if it has something to do with backing up my save. I restored from my backup once when I mistakenly teleported into stone, but the backed up save was made after defeating the sword already. Weird stuff.

 

[BEvers]

I didn't encounter the multiple copies thing in the PS1 version, but I also didn't do much backtracking - the level design in Wiz 2 just rubbed me the wrong way, and I felt a bit like the game was just trying to waste my time

I thought Wiz 3 had better maps, but it was still a bit too grindy due to the alignment mechanics and low XP gains. Wiz 1 was the only game of the trilogy where I really enjoyed the pacing.

 

[Grauken]

one interesting bit of Wizardry 4 trivia you probably never gave a thought to

I got this from here

Have you ever wondered why one game from the Wizardry-series is lacking from the C-64?

Well I did, and it led me to a little research in that area. After checking release dates it seems that the Wizardry-series was released later than I thought on the C-64 – Wizardry was made in 1987, while Wizardry II, III and V was made in 1988/89. I have always found it odd that the funniest (and hardest!) part of the series have gone missing. In Wizardry IV you play the evil wizard Werdna, breaking out of his dungeon prison, battling bands of heroes on the way up, summoning an army of monsters to help you on the way…

Said and done – I reckoned the easiest way to do it was to contact one of the authors, Robert Woodward:

My email to Robert:

“Hi Robert,

I saw a post from you in a forum some time ago and would like you to clear up a couple of matters, as you are one of the originators of the Wizardry series.

As a proud owner and a dedicated player of the first three Wizardry’s, I have always wondered why ‘Wizardry IV – The Return of Werdna’ never showed up on the C-64 when Wizardry V did? As far as I understood it from your post at /., you had developed Pascal interpreters for the C64 aswell? I furthermore read that the game was programmed and compiled on a NEC 9801 – was there a problem in making the compiled game running on the C-64 or were there other circumstances preventing the release?”

Robert Woodward’s answer:

“You know, I have no positive recollection why it didn’t happen, but one possibility was simply that ROW was too big to fit on the C64 floppy discs.”

—

Ok, Robert’s answer wasn’t exactly the most enlightening one, so I hunted on for Werdna himself – Andrew Greenberg. Andrew pointed me in the direction of the guy who made the conversion for the answer – Anton Treuenfels. After some googling, I found the answer i’ve been looking for all the time, posted by Anton Treuenfels himself on the MobyGames Developer BIO:

In 1987 Anton Treuenfels spent six months in lovely Ithaca, NY helping port “Wizardry 1: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord” to the Commodore 64 platform. Having done the hard part (coding a UCSD p-code interpreter), he subsequently helped port “Wizardry 2: Knight of Diamonds”, “Wizardry 3: Legacy of Llylgamn” and “Wizardry 5: Heart of the Maelstrom” to C64 in relatively short order in 1988.

Although technically no more difficult than the others, “Wizardry 4: Return of Werdna” was never ported to the C64 by decision of Sir-Tech Software after poor sales on other platforms.

 

[newtmonkey]

Well, now that I know I can Malor straight up/down from the first floor, I won't be backtracking anymore so won't run into it again

I'm still looking forward to Wiz 3. At least it will have the excitement of building up a party once again. What I'm REALLY looking forward to is Wiz 5. I've been playing some of the Wiz Gaiden games on GM/SFC and I like some of the changes they took from Wiz 5 (weapon ranges, thief hide ability).

 

[Tweed]

That's interesting, I am actually playing the Ultimate Archives version (actual physical copy). It makes no sense, but I wonder if it has something to do with backing up my save. I restored from my backup once when I mistakenly teleported into stone, but the backed up save was made after defeating the sword already. Weird stuff.

I backed up saves as well and did the whole closing the game before disaster struck so I have no idea what makes the armor reappear.

I need to get back to Wiz 3, whenever I have the time.

 

[Eggs is eggs]

Robert Sirotek did an interview with Matt Barton on Matt Chat and he said that him and the business side of Sirtech were against Wizardry 4 because of the difficulty and niche audience it was aimed at but the gamers at the company (Roe R Adams, Werdna and Trebor) wanted to try to make the most hardcore game possible. He said he was proven correct as it was the worst selling of any of the Wizardries. Word of mouth on it was terrible because of how maddeningly difficult it was. Gotta respect them for having the balls to make it though.

 

[octavius]

IIRC it also delayed releasing the finished Wiz 5 significantly, making that game look far more dated than it had to.

 

[newtmonkey]

Wizardry II: Knight of Diamonds (PC)
Finished!

This was nowhere near as fun as Wiz 1, but since it's Wizardry it still outclasses pretty much every other contemporary RPG out there.

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, this is like a victory lap for your party after struggling through Wiz 1. The KOD equipment is ridiculously powerful, so the game actually ends up getting easier as you go deeper into the dungeon. I will admit that it felt pretty good to completely wipe the floor with enemies like this, but toward the last couple couple of floors I just wanted the game to end.

I think the only way this game can be played with any sense of accomplishment, would be to play it straight without any backups. Maybe the best way to play today would just be to keep a copy of your save1.dsk from Wiz 1 and play the game ironman; then you could restore individual characters or even the whole party from "start" (i.e. status at the end of Wiz 1). On the other hand, you only gain 1-2 levels across the entire game, so maybe it wouldn't even make much of a difference.

If I had got this game back in the day, I'd probably have been pretty disappointed. This, more than any other Wiz game, is just an expansion to Wiz 1. I'd reckon it took me less than 5 hours to complete, and that's mapping pretty much every square of every floor.

Wizardry III: Legacy Of Llylgamyn (PC)
I've carried over my Wiz 2 party plus bishop over to Wiz 3, "legated" them and equipped them at Boltac's. I considered converting my Samurai to a Fighter for faster leveling, but he would have suffered much lower stats (even though Wiz 3 already reduces your stats).

I briefly considering exploring the first floor of the maze, but I'm honestly Wizardry'd-out at this point and need to take a break, or I fear I'll just get annoyed at Wiz 3. Time to finish up Bard's Tale 1 and Might & Magic 1!!!!

[Edit]
Was reading up on the CRPGAddict posts for Wiz 2.

Dunno how he deals with some of those commentators. "You should just play the NES version, it's apparently better." LOLZ

No matter what game he is writing about, there is always some joker in the comments talking about Nintendo games. Drives me up the wall.

 

[octavius]

Yeah, those Nintendo fanbois are everywhere.
It's bloody annoying how when people talk about "retro gaming" they nearly always mean Nintendo gaming.

 

[newtmonkey]

You can't avoid it! I mean, I had a Nintendo when I was a kid, I played those games... every once in a while I drag the NES out and play some Contra or whatever, but it's infuriating to read the answer to every problem is NES.

Wizardry III: Legacy Of Llylgamyn (PC)
Wow, this game is bullshit haha

It caps your stats to 15, which means no bonuses.
Each character has max 8 HP.
You start out fighting groups of up to 8 enemies at a time, each of whom can do 4-5 damage per attack.
I would say your characters have roughly an equal chance to hit as the enemies, but again, you've got at most 3 characters that can attempt to hit each round, while the enemy has 8 (minus any you manage to put to sleep).

If anything, the stat bug is EVEN WORSE in this one. I didn't start save scumming until the last few character levels in Wiz 1, but here I have to save scum 5-6 times per level just to not get 3-4 stats dropping every level.
Like, is something seriously wrong with this version? As a test now I save scummed my first level ups from level 1-2, and I would say that at LEAST 4/5 times a character will drop 4 stats and gain 1 (almost always a useless stat for that class).

Luckily, Katino is VERY effective... but only seems to last a round before most enemies start waking up.

Playing this legit without backing up my save would be FUCKING INFURIATING

Maybe I should have taken my own advice and taken a break haha

 

[BlackGoat]

Yeah, after roflstomping my way through Wiz1&2 I got my ass kicked enough on the first floor of three that I ended up taking a long break and then when I started back up just jumped ahead to 5. Still need to go back to this one at some point. Currently making my way through the Gameboy Wiz Gaidens tho

 

[newtmonkey]

I laugh BlackGoat cuz I am working my way through Wiz Gaiden 1 currently

It seems to have a reputation even among Japanese players as difficult and unbalanced, but the first 3 floors have been a cakewalk compared with the first floor of Wiz 3!

Having said that, once you get to around level 3 in Wiz 3, floor 1 becomes a LOT more manageable

 

[BlackGoat]

Good to know. I'll have to fire it up again soon. The necessary alignment switching I was reading about also scared me off to some extent, but I never got to that point.

 

[newtmonkey]

This "Where Are We" application is pretty interesting, works with Wiz 1-5 and BT 1-3. It's got mapping, etc., but more interestingly it gives you some insight into the game mechanics.

Here's how leveling apparently works in the DOS PC version of Wiz 3:

For any stat with a score of 18:
6% chance of dropping a point
94% chance of staying the same
For any stat below 18:
37.9% chance of gaining a point
37.1% chance of dropping a point
25% chance of staying the same

This would also explain why I seem to be losing stats much more often than in Wiz 1; in Wiz 3, it is impossible to start out with an 18, as all stats are capped to 15 when you transfer your party.

 

[Tweed]

If it sleeps, you can kill it.

 

[Strange Fellow]

It's back to Crusaders of the Dark Savant for me.
I was initially reluctant to use the automap mod because I thought it would render the Mapping skill obsolete, but it turns out it actually takes the skill into account, which is great. Unfortunately, my notes disappear upon death/quitting the game, which sucks. Anyone have any experience with it, and can tell me if this is normal or if my install is borked somehow? This is the one: https://www.moddb.com/mods/wizardry-7-automap-mod

 

[Grauken]

No idea, I use GridCartographer

 

[Eggs is eggs]

Stat gains and stats drops having an equal chance of occurring has to be a bug. Weird they never spotted it.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Apparently Brother Tshober is supposed to give me a Trolley when I give him the password from Father Rulae in New City, with which I can cross the river safely. He never did. Apparently I'm supposed to be able to pay for ferry rides if I give him the wrong password. I didn't, so I can't do that either. Lovely. And of course I saved after as well. Time to grind up everyone's Swimming, I suppose.

 

[Grauken]

Did he leave? If not, you didn't say the right thing

Spoiler

Slay not he that cannot hear

 

[Strange Fellow]

Did he leave? If not, you didn't say the right thing

Spoiler

Slay not he that cannot hear

He left. I wish he hadn't. Now I'll have to swim across.