Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[newtmonkey]

Wizardry 5 (PC)

Yikes, that SORN battle is brutal. There's no way I can beat this game at level 15. I got through all the clone battles and stuff without a problem, saved right before SORN and tried maybe a dozen times, didn't even come close to winning (yes, I know you need to dispel the field around SORN). The best I did was get the combat down to SORN and one demon, but it was still hopeless as they both cast multitarget high damage spells, so I had zero chance of winning.

I've read that in other versions SORN's field protects both you and the enemies, allowing you to buff up a few rounds before dispelling. Unfortunately, in the DOS version, the field merely protects SORN, which means you are getting multiple multitarget damage spells launched at you straight from the first round.

There's unfortunately not much out there in terms of strategies for the DOS version, plenty on the SNES version of course. The CRPGAddict's strategy was to save before the fight and reload until he got an "easy" group, and wrote that it took him 40 reloads until he got something manageable. That sounds just as boring as just grinding up levels.

I did save in front of the SORN battle, but unfortunately got a party wipe and wasn't quick enough to close the game before it hit the main menu, so I had to restore my backup from before I did all the ritual stuff on level 7/8. Next time, I'll get all that done, save and quit before SORN, and back that save up.

Then, I've got two strategies I want to try out next:

1 - Start out right away by blasting high level damage spells from all spellcasters in the hope of destroying everyone but SORN ASAP (this will probably end in failure because all SORN needs to do is cast high level damage spells each round for two rounds to knock out half my party).
2 - Start out by having my mages and samurai cast Cortu to hopefully build up some magic resistance, while everyone else focuses on taking out everyone but SORN. Next round, break down SORN's field and see how it goes.

 

[newtmonkey]

Wizardry 5 (PC)

FINISHED!

I redid all the rituals, got back to the SORN, backed up my save and... defeated it on my first try!

Just as I posited, strategy 2 above worked great. In the first round, I had my priest cast BAMORDI to summon the Gatekeeper, and my two mages and samurai cast CORTU to build up some magic resistance. This was very effective and kept my party alive and healthy for the rest of the combat (with the exception of my weakest mage, who died immediately). From then on it was TILTOWAITx2 every round, MABARIKO from my priest, and physical damage from my fighter and samurai. Even my thief held her own and sniped some of the weaker minions from the back row. SORN herself went down to a lucky TILTOWAIT that got through her defenses, and the final round was the five remaining party members versus one very injured cacodemon.

I raised my dead mage, healed everyone up to max HP and strolled back to level 7, down to HELL, and then up back to the castle like total badasses.

 

[newtmonkey]

Having now taken a single party through the DOS versions of Wiz 1-3+5, I want to just make a separate post with my overall thoughts.

Before going through these games over the last couple of years, the only experience I had playing any of them was fooling around with the NES and DOS versions of Wizardry 1. I never saw the appeal back then, and I figured they now were only of historic interest due to how influential they were. However, I had a total blast playing these games! There were some frustrating moments, but these are some of the best games I have ever played.

Overall thoughts:

Wizardry 1: Tied with Wizardry 5 as the best of the bunch. Great and memorable dungeon design and balanced very well; if you take your time and explore/map, you'll always be just about ready for the next dungeon level. Even the dreaded WERDNA battle was not as bad as I thought it would be.

Wizardry 2: Dull and short. It's like a victory lap for your party, where you just get more and more insanely powerful throughout the game. I am pretty certain I finished this in a single drunken night.

Wizardry 3: Fortunately, it's more substantial than Wizardry 2; unfortunately, it's the most poorly-balanced game in the bunch. The game often forces you through anywhere from 5-10 fixed encounter rooms in a row just to get from point A to point B. On top of that, enemies give hardly any experience and treasure chests hardly ever give you anything of value. Then you have the tedious alignment-restricted levels. I was happy to get this one over with.

Wizardry 5: Tied with Wizardry 1 as the best of the bunch . Excellent dungeon design, possibly the best of the early series. It's balanced pretty well up until you reach the last 15-20% of the game or so, when the game gets much more difficult. The addition of rear rank weapons, some interesting new spells, NPC interaction, and item-based puzzles makes this game feel like the true sequel to Wizardry 1. It even plays different in that the game doesn't automatically save the game state as frequently AND you can quick-save in dungeons. I got frustrated with this one (partly because I didn't realize I could save and continue in the dungeons until I was nearly at the end of the game) but loved it from start to finish.

[edit] Oh! I also want to thank aweigh for championing these games, because I would never have played through them had I not read his passionate and insane ( ) posts in this very thread.

 

[aweigh]

Wait til you play Wizardry Empire 2, I think you'll really like it. Most advanced Wizardry game made and bridges the gap between Wizardry and Elminage. It takes the best of the elements introduced by Bradley and integrates them perfectly into a very polished Wiz formula; it truly delivers some great dungeoneering. It's my favorite Wizardry, followed closely by Wiz 5.

You can grab the ISO for the game from several places, including abandon ware sites, and then just use the english patch from romhacking dot net if you want. Wiz Gaiden 4 is probably the 2nd best of the japanese Wizardry games, and as good as it is I don't think it is in the same league as the Wizardry Empire games. Those are special.

EDIT: I think I remember you saying you had played Wiz Empire 1 on PSX?

 

[Zumbabul]

aweigh, have you thought about defending PhD about Wizardry games? Or maybe writing a book about Wizardry? You are probably number 1 expert in the world on this topic.

 

[octavius]

I never saw the appeal back then, and I figured they now were only of historic interest due to how influential they were. However, I had a total blast playing these games! There were some frustrating moments, but these are some of the best games I have ever played.

I had a similar experience five years ago.

 

[Jason Liang]

The problem is the genre doesn't deviate from the formula. If you spent hundreds of hours of your childhood playing the original Wizardry like I did, something like Elminage Gothic is just too familiar with freaky anime art.

The only blobber that stands out (besides Wizardry IV) is Rance VI, since Rance VI actually has an awesome story. So blobber gameplay used as a storytelling medium is innovative.

 

[Grauken]

The problem is the genre doesn't deviate from the formula. If you spent hundreds of hours of your childhood playing the original Wizardry like I did, something like Elminage Gothic is just too familiar with freaky anime art.

The only blobber that stands out (besides Wizardry IV) is Rance VI, since Rance VI actually has an awesome story. So blobber gameplay used as a storytelling medium is innovative.

you are wrong

 

[Casual Hero]

I just want to say, dang, there is so much good stuff in this thread. I was just going back and reading some of aweigh's analysis of the whole Wizardry experience, and it is some really enlightening stuff. I'm really starting to realize the sheer brilliance of the Wiz 1-5 system. Makes me want to actually play through some of the games...

 

[BlackGoat]

Do it, man. I played Wiz 1,2,3 and 5 for the first time in the last 4 years and they're legit great games. Very pure gaming

And then you can start fucking around with Elminage

 

[newtmonkey]

AdvancedHero
If you want to play the classic Wiz games but don't want to do all of them, I'd recommend playing Wizardry 1 (it's fantastic and doesn't take very long to finish, even if you play cautiously) and Wizardry 5 (the ultimate classic Wizardry experience, very long and meaty game).

I love the DOS versions, but would recommend playing the PSX ports of Wiz 1 & 5, as they are pretty much perfect ports but have some modern bells and whistles (no autosave, optional automap.

 

[Lady_Error]

The problem is the genre doesn't deviate from the formula. If you spent hundreds of hours of your childhood playing the original Wizardry like I did, something like Elminage Gothic is just too familiar with freaky anime art.

That's because JRPG's copy the Wizardry 1-5 formula and ignore the expansion of the concept that the later Wizardries provided. There should have been many more games like Grimoire.

 

[Grauken]

AdvancedHero
If you want to play the classic Wiz games but don't want to do all of them, I'd recommend playing Wizardry 1 (it's fantastic and doesn't take very long to finish, even if you play cautiously) and Wizardry 5 (the ultimate classic Wizardry experience, very long and meaty game).

I love the DOS versions, but would recommend playing the PSX ports of Wiz 1 & 5, as they are pretty much perfect ports but have some modern bells and whistles (no autosave, optional automap.

I like the SNES version of Wiz 5

 

[octavius]

I like the SNES version of Wiz 5

It's probably good if you can ignore the offensive censorship.

As I wrote earlier in the thread

the censorship is so laughable that instead of asking for a drink Renegade Rob asks for a soda.
And enemies are not killed, they are "destroyed"
And the Duck of Sparks no longer talks about spirits, but "ghosts", thus ruining the pun. Those fucking Nintendo people and their fucking censorship; how I despise them.

 

[Grauken]

I like the SNES version of Wiz 5

It's probably good if you can ignore the offensive censorship.

As I wrote earlier in the thread

the censorship is so laughable that instead of asking for a drink Renegade Rob asks for a soda.
And enemies are not killed, they are "destroyed"
And the Duck of Sparks no longer talks about spirits, but "ghosts", thus ruining the pun. Those fucking Nintendo people and their fucking censorship; how I despise them.

Obviously I played the version without the censorship

https://www.romhacking.net/translations/2866/

 

[rusty_shackleford]

what's wrong with wiz4?

 

[Jason Liang]

The problem is the genre doesn't deviate from the formula. If you spent hundreds of hours of your childhood playing the original Wizardry like I did, something like Elminage Gothic is just too familiar with freaky anime art.

That's because JRPG's copy the Wizardry 1-5 formula and ignore the expansion of the concept that the later Wizardries provided. There should have been many more games like Grimoire.

I guess this is why I love the Rance games so much. Rance games are basically if Al Lowe had made Wizardry games instead of King's Quest games.

The earliest Rance games, for example Rance II (1990, a year after Dragon Quest) is basically a town with a weapon shop, tavern, temple, and a dungeon, following the Wizardry formula.

 

[Grauken]

You sound more like the people who play blobbers and then go on saying something ridiculous like, I like blobbers, but I wish they were less like blobbers.

You have so many variations on the formula, you have RT team blobbers (DM, EotB, Grimrock), you have single char RT blobbers (Anvil of Dawn, Vaporum), you have early Wizardry-type games (W1-5, Elminage, Paper Sorcerer, Dark Spire), you have late Wizardry-type games (W6-8, Grimoire), you have the various strains of Might & Magic blobbers (1-2, 3-5+10 (Legend of Amberland, Legacy), 6-9), you have something like single char TB-based blobbers (The Quest), the Avatar type-games (Mordor, Demise), you have odd experiments like Labyrinth of Refrain that massively changes the formula without becoming something else, you have all the eroge blobbers that have popped up over the years (Lightning Warrior Raidy 1-3, Sakura Dungeon, Words Worth, Rance 6), you have the various strain of Wizardry-inspired games that do their own thing like the Megami Tensei games (which are Japanese but don't have weeb graphics or not too much), the Etrian Odyssey games and so on.

If you don't like anything there, it just means you don't like blobber, categorical. You might like single titles in the genre, but in general, you just don't like it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Having to choose between blobber combat/exploration and actually having a story in your game is retarded.

 

[Grauken]

Having to choose between blobber combat/exploration and actually having a story in your game is retarded.

That's a pretty nice strawman you have there. Most of those games have a story, they are just not bothered with writing pointless walls of text, thank god for that

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Having to choose between blobber combat/exploration and actually having a story in your game is retarded.

That's a pretty nice strawman you have there. Most of those games have a story, they are just not bothered with writing pointless walls of text, thank god for that

As much of a story as your average jrpg, sure.

 

[Darth Roxor]

lol having a story in a game

 

[Grauken]

Having to choose between blobber combat/exploration and actually having a story in your game is retarded.

That's a pretty nice strawman you have there. Most of those games have a story, they are just not bothered with writing pointless walls of text, thank god for that

As much of a story as your average jrpg, sure.

Your average jRPG has more story than your average western cRPG, not sure what you're on about

If you want massive amounts of dialogue like Disco Elysium, maybe you shouldn't play blobbers. I'm not going around complaining about the lack of romance options in Civilization either

 

[Jason Liang]

I don't know why people never consider Pool of Radiance a blobber. Is it the tactical combat?

 

[Jason Liang]

You sound more like the people who play blobbers and then go on saying something ridiculous like, I like blobbers, but I wish they were less like blobbers.

You have so many variations on the formula, you have RT team blobbers (DM, EotB, Grimrock), you have single char RT blobbers (Anvil of Dawn, Vaporum), you have early Wizardry-type games (W1-5, Elminage, Paper Sorcerer, Dark Spire), you have late Wizardry-type games (W6-8, Grimoire), you have the various strains of Might & Magic blobbers (1-2, 3-5+10 (Legend of Amberland, Legacy), 6-9), you have something like single char TB-based blobbers (The Quest), the Avatar type-games (Mordor, Demise), you have odd experiments like Labyrinth of Refrain that massively changes the formula without becoming something else, you have all the eroge blobbers that have popped up over the years (Lightning Warrior Raidy 1-3, Sakura Dungeon, Words Worth, Rance 6), you have the various strain of Wizardry-inspired games that do their own thing like the Megami Tensei games (which are Japanese but don't have weeb graphics or not too much), the Etrian Odyssey games and so on.

If you don't like anything there, it just means you don't like blobber, categorical. You might like single titles in the genre, but in general, you just don't like it.

It's a genre that's hit a creative dead end, like adventure games, rts and fps.