Thief fan missions and campaigns

[General_Norris]

This might not be the thread for it, but I think it's better than making a new one.

I've decided I want to ghost the original Thief II campaign but I'm not sure of what rules to follow. Any suggestions? Also, any tips would be greatly welcome because even a single servant going from the kitchen to the pantry scares me shitless ^^U

Edit: The Lingering Whispers mission is really, really great and very scary. It's not my "kind" of mission but I doubt it's anyone's kind of mission because it seeks to make you a bit unconfortable and that's what its cool about it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Urgh, I'm trying to remember the "standard rules" of ghosting (according to the Eidos forums) and then trying to figure out which ones are actually fun.

The basics would be:

# No killing and no knockouts by your own hand, regardless of how you do it. If a group of critters decide they want to duke it out by themselves, let them. Don't interfere.
# Don't get anyone or anything alerted to your presence. - This one is the hardest to follow, as people disagree on whether a critter gets suspicious (detects something but isn't sure what it is) or alerted (knows something's there, but can't find it) is the criteria to fail this objective.
# Don't break or destroy anything.
# Leave items as they were. Mostly this means making sure doors and windows stay closed behind you and not moving stuff about needlessly. People take this further and don't extinguish torches, lock doors again after having used them, etc.

Anything beyond the above is overly restrictive IMO and detracts from the "fun" of ghosting.

On a sidenote - if "Lingering Whispers" leaves you with a taste for "scary" then you might want to check out "Deceptive Perceptions" - it's REALLY short, but you might need a change of underwear afterwards.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

This thread has all the rules of ghosting... http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30310

I do admire Supremers such as Klatremus for instance, but with NewDark it seems almost impossible. Sight, hearing, depth of vision, all appear much improved for AI. So, quite a few first level alerts in my playthroughs.

I do try to ghost every mission I play. Even when playing the mission for the first time. There are busts along the way, though, but not big deal, still a great great fun.

Think you made a fine choice in ghosting Thief 2 first, it is easier to do so than TDP/Gold. Easy enough start with Running Interference, but then you're getting to Shipping...and Receiving, one of the highlights of the game. These are my recent ghosting adventures in Thief 2.

Good luck, and have fun.

 

[General_Norris]

Yeah, I also noticed the standard rules are fairly restrictive. It also makes little sense to write rules that cannot be acomplished in-game like saying that knocking out Cavador or being spotted by the Watcher in Soulforge is a bust, so I'll ignore those.

Here's what I was thinking:

- No kills or knockouts.
- No level two alerts (Enemy looks actively looks for you). I don't think avoiding level one alerts is interesting or fun. This rules makes watchers a bit more annoying than they should, though. It may also be extremely annoying in a certain
- No destruction of property. I can't really think of anything you would want to destroy other than watchers and the ocassional door, though.
- Objectives and scripted events overrule previous restrictions. I may apply this rule to the two guards that protect Cavador since there doesn't seem to be a way to knock out Cavador and take him away while ghosting unless you abuse the game's quirks.

The big question is: Can you disable mechanist robots? They are similar to "knockouts" and with the exception of the computer room in Soulforge, I don't think there are any places that would be annoying to cross without being able to disable them.


BTW, Kirkpatrick I subscribed to you on Youtube. I'll try to watch your videos sometime even if Thief's darkness makes them a bit hard to see sometimes.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

- No destruction of property. I can't really think of anything you would want to destroy other than watchers and the ocassional door, though.

Sometimes stuff is hidden behind tapestries, and the only way to get to them is to chop down the banner. This WILL be noticed by any guards that walk past and will almost always raise them to Level 1 Alert status. I'm not sure if there's much of this in the OMs, though.

- Objectives and scripted events overrule previous restrictions. I may apply this rule to the two guards that protect Cavador since there doesn't seem to be a way to knock out Cavador and take him away while ghosting unless you abuse the game's quirks.

This is the reason why I'm not a big fan of the ghosting challenge: Too many compromises will have to be made to make it work, and in the end it's really only yourself who's overseeing things.

The big question is: Can you disable mechanist robots? They are similar to "knockouts" and with the exception of the computer room in Soulforge, I don't think there are any places that would be annoying to cross without being able to disable them.

Disabled robots will be noticed by other critters and will either raise their alert status or at least make them comment on it, so I'd say "no" to that.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

BTW, Kirkpatrick I subscribed to you on Youtube. I'll try to watch your videos sometime even if Thief's darkness makes them a bit hard to see sometimes.

I usually play in darkened room, so it looks fine. Just increase brightness a bit!

As for ghosting, I do not mind restrictions. I know I've been busted sometimes thanks to those unavoidable things such as Cavador's party (can be ghosted actually!) or watcher at the start of Sabotage at Soulforge), but still, there's a satisfaction coming from ghosting the rest of the mission.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

A Thief 2 FM just dropped in - "Breaking the Stone". It's a 3 mission FM that takes place in a small town by a steep cliff. The plot is paperthin - get into town, find teh evul archmage and kill him. Predictable plot twists ensue.

I've just started the third mission, and the plot/story is indeed the worst part. The first part is a village that's both been occupied by the archmage's forces, and then had a VERY sudden growth spurt, as there are vines and plants growing out of the walls and streets. The village itself isn't that big but there are things to be discovered if one looks around. This FM follows the T2 FM formula almost down to a tee - no monsters, no undead, just lots of guards, some human spellcasters and a handful of cameras. The architecture is probably the FM's highpoint. The village feels credible in terms of layout and the state of most of the houses. There are two ways into the village, and there are no restrictions of travel within the village - even the rooftops are easily accessible, though the Dark engine starts groaning at the draw distances up there. Only a few plot-vital areas are inaccessible until objectives have been completed in the proper order. There are a few puzzles but nothing that a astute reader or observant player can't figure out. Readables suffer from the same "I HAZ PAPER AUDIOLOG, LET'S WRITE DOWN ALL MY SEKRITZ!" and the voice acting, sans Garrett himself are cringe-worthy.

The third mission appears to be a re-hash of the first mission with a quick change of scenery due to plot, but the second mission deserves special praise. Basically it's a mindfuck; it's very creepy and unnerving and will probably scare people but it doesn't fall into the pit trap of using cheap scare tactics to accomplish things. Compared to the first mission it's actually rather short and feels more like a cinematic series of events rather than a level within a game, but instead of feeling cheap it feels more like an intermission before players are returned to Garrett saving the world for the umpteenth time.

It's a hefty download, but unless the third mission manages to screw everything up I think this is a solid T2 FM release.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

I'm playing Melan's series at the moment. Started with "Prowler of the Dark", Thief Gold FM which was quite short, but dense. Lots to do in that small space, and with all-hearing guards. Then played "Bad Debts", which taught me that if think I see something up there, there probably is something up there. Just awesome exploration.Ghosting that one felt easier than "Prowler", not too many AI, and them being "friendly" for half a mission might be few of the reasons why.

Now started "Disorientation", mission which actually brought me to series (saw a bumped topic on ttlg), and so far (beginning still), again awesome. Got trained well to notice wood textures.

Thanks a bunch, Melan , having some great time.

 

[skacky]

Disorientation is the best Thief 2 mission in my eyes. All the others are nothing in comparison.

 

[JarlFrank]

Melan is one fucking awesome FM maker. You should check out skacky 's missions too, though, they hit quite a similar vein.

 

[Melan]

Yeah, skacky has picked up the torch, and is carrying it. Although, as much as my time allows, I'm still trying. .)

 

[JarlFrank]

Which reminds me, I should get back to that DarkMod mission I started on...

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Well, finished the final part of "Breaking the Stone". This one is stuffed to the rafters with Undead, with a few Craymen thrown in for good measure. Oddly enough it has no loot, meaing that only the first mission has "genuine" Thief gameplay, while the third one is more like the final levels of Thief 1/Gold.

One other thing... this is a sequel of sorts to "Eclipsed". Sadly it's nowhere near as creepy, but it's still good fun nonetheless. Recommended.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

Disorientation is truly exceptional. Constantly looking upwards. :D

But weirdly, I think I like Bad Debts more. Disorientation is more of everything. Bigger, more paths, more places, more beautiful, but still city in Bad Debts felt more like a real city to me. Or I just imagined it.

Great fun nevertheless. Blackjack run finished, now lets try to ghost it.

Found Between These Dark Halls, Shadow Politics and The Unseen from skacky , those are all? And are they connected somehow...I mean, can play them in any order?

 

[skacky]

You can play these in any order. The Unseen is just a little experiment I did for the 64*64*64 contest and is not my usual style. I also made The Music of Sibel for the 48 hours contest.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

GORT has relased his updated version of "Unknown Treasure". I've spent a couple of hours with it, and I'm not seeing anything new, to be honest. He has divided the mission into two parts, so everything that took place underground is now in the second mission.

But Thief players beware! GORT is the undisputed master of cheese, so expect some very bizarre things to happen, like a helmet "suddenly" falling off a hook to awaken the sleeping people, guards being spawned in the strangest places, and guards to be armed with those swordguns he introduced in "Rebellion of the Builder".

I'm also coming across what seem to be several glitches and bugs, so while I'd keep an eye on this, I would also hold off until he's released an updated version.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I've given up on "The Unknown Treasure". The first mission hasn't changed much (though Slender Man did creep in somehow) but I'm hearing horror stories about the second part. Namely, that GORT has made that mission into a twitch-gaming platforming extravaganza.

I've said it before, so I'll say it again: The Dark Engine CANNOT handle "advanced" platforming gameplay at all, don't even bother. But some people never learn.

But the reason I'm posting is because someone finally updated the "upcoming FMs" list properly. Here are the highlights to keep an eye on:

Rocksbourg 0: This "flashback chapter" in the Rocksbourg series is on track to be released by the end of the year. A small team is working on this and it promises to pull out all the stops. Rocksbourg 4 is based on the same map as Rocksbourg 0, so it shouldn't be that far behind.

Rebellion of the Builder 2: Yes, this behemoth is almost done. It's a GORT mission pack, though, so consider yourself warned.

Endless Rain: Skacky's latest effort is currently in beta testing.

An untitled mission that's based on the villa from Assassin's Creed 2, meaning mansion mission with dark secrets and horror.

There are other FMs in the pipelines as well.

 

[Melan]

Endless Rain looks amazing from the released screenshots. The surreal cityscape is a winner.

 

[skacky]

Thanks. Beta-testing goes smoothly so expect it to be released soonish.

 

[JarlFrank]

I've given up on "The Unknown Treasure". The first mission hasn't changed much (though Slender Man did creep in somehow) but I'm hearing horror stories about the second part. Namely, that GORT has made that mission into a twitch-gaming platforming extravaganza.

I gave up on the first mission and decided to play others that I haven't checked out yet instead, because it's just not a very good mission. Guards spawning in your face is one thing, but its whole layout and architecture reminds me of mediocre early FMs by inexperienced authors. For being such a mediocre mission, it has way too many annoyances to make it worth playing (like those SUDDENLY SOMETHING SPAWNS IN YOUR FACE! moments).

 

[Unkillable Cat]

One minor notice: Thief FM creator cardia has been busy revisiting his older FMs and updating them to NewDark, which I would consider good news if I could think of any good FMs he's made.

Furthermore, he makes the requirement that the Thief Enhancement Pack be disabled when playing his missions.

Can anyone here remember a good mission from cardia?

 

[JarlFrank]

I remember most of his being in the "solid" range of quality, but none that were particularly "good", based on my own taste and rating system.

Some time last year, I started replaying some FMs and decided to mark them as completed in DarkLoader once I complete them and then give them a rating based on how much I enjoyed them. It's a good system to organize my ever-growing FM folder.
My ratings:

Great: this is for those few missions that really managed to be awesome and which I liked even more than the original missions. My favourite missions like Ominous Bequest and Sensut's Bathory campaign go there, as well as overall excellently designed missions such as Amoral Dilemma.
Good: Any mission I enjoyed and could imagine replaying. Any mission with good architecture and solid design goes there, which are most of Christine's missions, short but enjoyable missions like All For a Night's Sleep, etc.
Solid: Any mission that I mostly enjoyed, but had some obvious design flaws either in its looks or in its basic gameplay (like overly fucking large proportions with gigantic rooms and very long paths to walk, some overly linear areas that take long to traverse and aren't much fun, etc). Many of the older missions which are not bad but also not that good go here.
Okay: Any mission that wasn't horrible and reasonably enjoyable for one playthrough, but not good enough for a replay. Rather mediocre overall.
Bad: A heavily flawed mission that wasn't all too enjoyable to play. The Unknown Treasure, which I recently played, is one of these - the design flaws are just too many for me to really enjoy it, and those parts that are good (if there are any) don't make up for the bad. Meh.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I recall enjoying the older Unknown Treasure better than the remake - mostly because he crammed 40 zombies into the graveyard instead of the 10 or so that are there today. Made things a little more "tense" once the Undead Parade started shuffling through town.

 

[Icewater]

Anyone tried NecroBob's new texture pack? Looks fookin' sick.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Remember when I mentioned a Thief 2 mission that was loosely based on the villa from Assassins's Creed 2? It's out. It's also a monstrous 460 MB download, making it among the largest FMs ever released. (Also needs NewDark 1.22.)

While I'm waiting for the download to finish, I browsed the TLLG forums and found a thread where a user asked what is the worst FM people have ever played? The responses are predictable from such a circle-jerk community such as TLLG:

This a bad thread idea. All fan missions are good because they exist!

I agree. All FMs are good. But if i do not like it, i'll just quit playing... Some is too buggy, and some is too hard. But i'll never complain.

Yes, this kind of thread has been done before and it's never a good idea.

Because people that spend time creating and building something should never have to be criticized for their work, or else they'll feel bad and start crying.