Thief fan missions and campaigns

[Max_b5]

Look at what someone at the KOI thread posted.

I was unable to get this objective for some reason. I've tried to CTRL ALT SHIFT END, but the second mission does not begin, I'm returned to the main menu.

If I try to rename the MIS files, saved games will not load. What can I do?

Apparently the author not only decided to make a frustrating FM but he doesn't allow you to win unless you play the whole thing the way he wants you to play it. And for what I can tell, the .zip includes a modified version of the 'dark.cfg' file.

 

[JarlFrank]

Well... the interesting thing, from the standpoint of a guy who recently began working with Dromed, is how he managed to do that.

And I thought skacky managed to skip the first mission after getting stuck?

 

[Yandros]

Jarl: Ambient light doesn't affect the light gem, so if your gem wasn't fully dark even in darkness, you should look at all of your light sources and set finite radii on them. Many light archetypes default to an infinite radius.

 

[JarlFrank]

Jarl: Ambient light doesn't affect the light gem, so if your gem wasn't fully dark even in darkness, you should look at all of your light sources and set finite radii on them. Many light archetypes default to an infinite radius.

Yeah, I recently learned that radius actually matters, originally I thought if I adjust the brightness it will be enough to prevent it from shining too far. Guess I was wrong.

With everything I screw up, I learn more, heh.

One thing I did notice just now: there is a distinct lack of good-looking trap doors. Bah, off to the object repository again. At least by now I've learned how to properly implement custom objects.

Oh, and Dromed hasn't crashed on me even once. I guess I can thank newdark for this!

 

[Melan]

Yes, that's important! Quit using light brushes (the plus-shaped yellow thingies) and start using hacklights, which are found in the object hierarchy. Always fix the radius on your lights.

 

[skacky]

I was able to skip Mission 1, yeah. The author forgot to create a missflag file though, so I had to make one.
Also yes, Darth Slaughter is right with regards to Keeper of Infinity. In the end it is extremely linear. You cannot stray off the restricting and obscure path laid out by the author and if you do the mission breaks.

 

[Random_Taffer]

Watching Soul Tear play through KoI on youtube.

One of the objectives is to find a room for the night. You complete this objective by reading an inn's guestbook and a new objective appears saying: "There are no rooms available anywhere, but this isn't a problem for you, right?"

What? How is that an objective? What?

 

[Yandros]

I was able to skip Mission 1, yeah. The author forgot to create a missflag file though, so I had to make one. ... You cannot stray off the restricting and obscure path laid out by the author and if you do the mission breaks.

Both of these things would strongly suggest that the campaign wasn't beta tested, or wasn't tested very well. Seriously, how do you even test a campaign without a missflag file?

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Watching Soul Tear play through KoI on youtube.

One of the objectives is to find a room for the night. You complete this objective by reading an inn's guestbook and a new objective appears saying: "There are no rooms available anywhere, but this isn't a problem for you, right?"

What? How is that an objective? What?

Oh yes. you have to scare one of the tenants. You discover he is afraid of spiders. You get a jar in the kitchen, and find a specific unkillable ca... errr, spider, and frob it with the jar. Then drop it in his room. How you can get to this conclusion? By luck, or watching a walkthrough...

 

[skacky]

And this is where you can completely break the mission. The spider is located in an inn near the House of Science, and its door only opens after you complete an objective... except said objective disappears and cannot be completed if you do not complete the rest of the objectives the intended way, thus making the door impossible to open for the remainder of the mission. Brilliant design.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Looks like I'm missing out on some prime time "tear'em a new asshole" moments by skipping out on KoI.

 

[skacky]

Watching the walkthrough. So you actually can shoot a rope arrow on the roof beam of the inn. I tried several times and only got the unsatisfying sound of a broken arrow against the stone.

 

[Dev_Anj]

I was able to skip Mission 1, yeah. The author forgot to create a missflag file though, so I had to make one. ... You cannot stray off the restricting and obscure path laid out by the author and if you do the mission breaks.

Both of these things would strongly suggest that the campaign wasn't beta tested, or wasn't tested very well. Seriously, how do you even test a campaign without a missflag file?

The beta of this mission does have a missflag.str, funnily enough.

Well... the interesting thing, from the standpoint of a guy who recently began working with Dromed, is how he managed to do that.

I think he must have written a custom script to generate missflag.str only once the player completes the first mission completely. That's why people who are trying to skip the first mission are only complaining about it on TTLG while other players, including the technically illiterate downwinder, are able to get to the second mission just fine.

 

[Melan]

Oh yes. you have to scare one of the tenants. You discover he is afraid of spiders. You get a jar in the kitchen, and find a specific unkillable ca... errr, spider, and frob it with the jar. Then drop it in his room. How you can get to this conclusion? By luck, or watching a walkthrough...

Old Man Murray told you so, but did you listen?

And not betatesting a level... sure, if it is a short-deadline speedbuilding contest, but something that would take at least a year to make? Why would you ever do that? Egoism?

 

[Random_Taffer]

I had found a bug in his previous version and gave him an idea of how to fix it. Don't know if he tried or even cared to, but it's still there.
Basically there's a part where you're inside a lady's house. At some point you can find the front door, but it is not immediately clear that that's what it is. If you frob this door, it's locked and there seems to be no way to open it. However, if you go back outside the guard that is standing outside said door is now hostile towards you.
Clearly it's a bug and Soul Tear intended for you to rouse the guard to anger if you tried frobbing the door in front of him (hopefully), which makes sense.
But now the guard hears someone try the door, psychically knows it's you, but doesn't go in to stop the place from being robbed. He waits until he sees you again outside to attack.
Not a very good guard!

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

Oh god this sounds truly awful.

 

[Max_b5]

Leaving KOI aside, I'll show you my awfully designed mission concepts: the former 'Looking for Info' and 'A Heretic's intervention'

Looking for Info was just what it is now: A city with a small temple in the middle and the lower areas are just the same as they are in the final version. However it was supposed to be for Thief Gold (before NewDark) and the city is way smaller.



A Heretic's intervention was a Hammer Temple located in the outskirts of The City. Had I known this thing was still alive I would've used some multibrushes for the final version.



So much nostalgia

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I took a small break from Keeper of the Prophecies because a topic came up (once again) on TTLG that picqued my interest. "Hardest FM Out There".

Many of the suggestions given are true, but a few I didn't recognize. One of them stuck out in particular, "The Varex Obelisk", so I figured I'd give that a go.

This FM manages to hide its true colours quite well. It starts out as a simple little romp about town, but quickly becomes a dungeon crawl where every corner must be checked and every stone turned in order to find the four talismans AND four talisman keys to power a system of portals. Players familiar with Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back will find some familiarity in the structure of this FM, at least on the 'basic concept' stage.

The difficulty of this FM stems from the unforgiving circumstances that Garrett is placed into. A large portion of the mission are narrow 90° corridors with monsters patrolling about, but there are other factors as well, such as vital items being RANDOMLY placed throughout the mission each playthrough, illusionary walls and secret doors that only open if you walk close enough to them. Expert difficulty goes all-out in presenting a challenge, you're not allowed to harm any critter in the mission. At all. You can't even knock out a spider! Throw in loud floors in attics, every pickable lock taking forever to be picked, and guards being suspicious from the get-go, and you have an FM that's not pulling any punches.

I gave up after getting two talismans and two talisman keys, not because I found the mission too challenging, but because it was at that point that I realized something. Many months ago I had struggled to remember a mission I had played years ago, a mission that had a 3-dimensional labyrinth with Haunts and gates opening and lowering everywhere based on where I stood in the maze. I was struggling to remember what mission this was because I remember beating it and swearing I'd never play it again because it was too much of an ordeal. Well...I found it again, it's "The Varex Obelisk". It's not 'Russian' level of a challenge, more like one of those old 8-bit games you have to commit yourself to in order to complete it...and once you have, you're not really inclined to go through that again.

But any of you unsuspecting Taffers out there looking for a challenge are free to give it a go.

 

[JarlFrank]

I like challenges, but lockpicking taking ages sounds unappealing to me.

This is literally the worst kind of challenge in a Thief mission. I retract my former statement of shitty Sierra adventure game logic being the worst. This is worse because it boils down to waiting while holding down a button.

At least, it does when the lock is in a place of relative safety and you're in no danger of being discovered while picking it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

At least, it does when the lock is in a place of relative safety and you're in no danger of being discovered while picking it.

In the case of the Varex Obelisk, the doors I came across this round were all in 'relative' safety - there were good shadows near them, and only a few of them were near critter patrol routes, but that doesn't change the fact that Every. Single. Lock. I found takes 40+ seconds to pick. But there may come doors later on that are not so forgiving.

 

[Max_b5]

So I went full masochistic retard mode and installed KOI. 5 minutes in and I'm already mad at the fact that he makes you play with HD mods installed. I was thinking that the framerate issue was solved in the lite version until I realised that the framerate drops because of the unnecessary excesive use of FX particles.

Do I have to mention that he also reduced the frob distance of 'hidden' objects so you can't just use the 'random clicks' technique? I found the crowbar just by accident so I guess I'm making some progress.

Difficulty level: unkillable spider. And I thought I had chosen expert.



*sigh* I can see how this is going to turn out in a few minutes.

 

[Max_b5]

I went on playing KOI. Give Garrett 15 loot for every time I reloaded and I would've completed the loot goal in 5 minutes.
Excessive use of FX particles is everywhere. Please make it stop. Unlabelled objects in the inventory? All right. Super sensitive guards and a security camera that you don't know it's there (because it makes no sounds whatsoever) until it sees you? what the f***.
When I finally got to the underground part I thought "this is going to be interesting" for a second. NOPE.
Want to jump onto the big headless dildo looking mountain below the crystals (because that's what every sane player would do, let's be honest)? NOPE. Have some slippery earth surface to punish your use of reason because this is MY fm and only MY logic is right.
Oh so you have to go back up to the surface again? Okay but you are not using the most logic way, which is climbing the mountain, because the surface is slippery for whatever reason. Instead, use rope arrows on the roots sticking out of the earth which surprisingly enough look as weak as this fm's design but can bear a human being's weight.

Personal rating: 10/700 mb. Don't even bother.

 

[Dev_Anj]

Personal rating: 10/700 mb. Don't even bother.

Hahahaha. We should totally start rating everything based on the file size number. That rating made me laugh a lot.

 

[JarlFrank]

Bit the bullet and downloaded KoI to see what the fuss is all about, been watching Fen's Let's Play of it and it does look gorgeous.

Well, what can I say... it's a real shame such amazing visual design is ruined by gameplay that works on the principle of "the more obscure and arbitrary the solution, the better!"
If Sierra were still around making adventure games, the author of this FM would have a job offer in his mailbox by now. This reminds me of the worst parts of the King's Quest games.

It's such a shame because it's so pretty. I'll shelve it for now and wait for the full walkthrough of both missions, then they'll stay reasonably enjoyable because if you remove all the "lol you got stuck because you didn't do exactly what I intended" moments, it actually is a rather fun mission.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

I like challenges, but lockpicking taking ages sounds unappealing to me.

Guess which recent mission has those? Even Underwater?