Thief fan missions and campaigns

[JarlFrank]

I like challenges, but lockpicking taking ages sounds unappealing to me.

Guess which recent mission has those? Even Underwater?

If I said anything other than "Keeper of Infinity", I'd be wrong, wouldn't I?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I had another go at the Keeper of the Prophecies.

I'll make this short: This is the worst Thief campaign ever made, containing the worst Thief FM ("Oracle of the Prophets") ever made.

I do not base this on "this is a piece of crap thrown together by a 5-year old"-bad, but a "skill, talent and planning went into making this, and yet it's a piece of crap"-bad.

Since the campaign can be downloaded in segments, I recommend Ep. 1: "The Enterprise", but the rest can be safely skipped.

That is all.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

I had another go at the Keeper of the Prophecies.

I'll make this short: This is the worst Thief campaign ever made, containing the worst Thief FM ("Oracle of the Prophets") ever made.

I do not base this on "this is a piece of crap thrown together by a 5-year old"-bad, but a "skill, talent and planning went into making this, and yet it's a piece of crap"-bad.

Since the campaign can be downloaded in segments, I recommend Ep. 1: "The Enterprise", but the rest can be safely skipped.

That is all.

the oracle is the one in an asteroid?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Yup. I knew that I had spoken too soon when I talked about how the Dark Engine is not suited for platforming. I had no idea someone had made an FM that focuses entirely upon that aspect, then messes with the gravity to make it even more frustrating.

At least now I know where qolelis got the inspiration for "The Sun Within and the Sun Without" - except he did it 10 times better, even though the mission is a giant mindfuck.

One item of note though - long ago I mentioned how a long drop was achieved in DromED by having a series of tunnels linked together by teleporters. "The Insurrection" does that at the end. It goes one better and LOOPS the drop, so the walls keep going faster and faster and faster until an optical illusion effect is achieved that fucks with your vision. Seriously, don't stare at that for too long, it may cause seizures.

But I've never been more grateful for CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+END in my entire taffing career - it at least helped me see that KotP sadly does not improve afterwards. It's just not worth the effort. At least "Calendra's Legacy" and "King's Story" have something worth taffing for at the end, this one doesn't (it has it at the start). "Rebellion of the Builder" makes people want to keep going just to see what insanity is sprung at them next. "Ruins of Originia" lays down one hell of a challenge, but rewards the player with an awesome final mission.

But that's not the worst of it. The worst of it is that there are far too many FMs being made nowadays that just aren't worth bothering with. Because here's a straight fact: Modders are generally drama queens, and the Thief community is no exception. There may be a higher air of civility about, and the drama kept out of the public eye, but the song remains the same (or have people forgotten the Yandros-Penetratator guy?). Lately there have been far too many misguided souls toiling away at creating Thief mods for an audience that doesn't exist...and is doubtful that it ever existed to begin with. Who likes the 'Russian' level of difficulty slapped on top of bad game design ("Keeper of Infinity"), who wants to play an FM that outlines a long list of chores in a crowded ghost-enforced environment ("Finals at the Academy") and who likes an FM that requires some meta-knowledge to play properly before slapping the player with a bad framerate ("Hearthcliff Islands")?

 

[Dev_Anj]

Who likes the 'Russian' level of difficulty slapped on top of bad game design ("Keeper of Infinity"), who wants to play an FM that outlines a long list of chores in a crowded ghost-enforced environment ("Finals at the Academy") and who likes an FM that requires some meta-knowledge to play properly before slapping the player with a bad framerate ("Hearthcliff Islands")?

Sadly, I feel the same about Keeper of Infinity and Hearthcliff Islands too (didn't play much of Finals at the Academy). It really feels like a tragedy to see so much work go into something that doesn't feel good to play. Keeper of Infinity is noteworthy for its great use of custom resources to make Thief look almost like a modern game, and Hearthcliff Islands has moments of cleverness and great scripting, but both feel more infuriating than interesting. Vigil's words really do seem true in respect to those two missions: the authors there have focused too much on making their personal magnum opus and in the process forgot the core of an enjoyable level, Thief like or otherwise.

Let's just hope 2016 brings more Of Thieves and Rubies' and less Keeper of Infinitys'. That campaign is a shining example of how you don't need a huge scope, custom assets or technical gimmicks to make good enjoyable missions.

 

[JarlFrank]

I think the FMs that look pretty but have crappy gameplay have always existed - well, maybe not always, but for a long time, as King's Story is a few years old already. They have been getting more plentiful lately, that much is true.

But that doesn't mean we don't get good stuff nowadays. Skacky is producing some of the most impressive city missions ever made, and they're full-on traditional Thief style, no bullshit. A big open level, a handful of rope arrows, and off to taffing you go. Stinkykitty has arrived completely out of the blue with his Gems of Provenance and delivered 2 missions - and then later on 2 more to make a total of 4, and his campaign isn't finished yet - that feel like they could be part of the original Thief Gold. That was the most pleasantly surprising release of the last few years, and I gave it a personal rating of 9/10.
Sensut is delivering missions I mostly enjoy, and he has toned down his habit of including pixel hunting elements, with his newer missions being less heavy on it than his earlier ones (it's even noticeable in Dracula Reloaded vs original Dracula missions).
R Soul is a great FM designer who keeps delivering that classic taffery gameplay with a few twists in the goals you get. "A Job Well Done" was a great mission, one of the best of 2015, and one of the missions that use the Newdark upgrade the right way.
Then there is the campaign of Max, which has had some really good and some solid missions (didn't enjoy the fourth mission of the campaign that much, the one with the bandit hideout, but it wasn't bad), and the most recent one was a great city/rooftop mission with unique visuals thanks to the street level being entirely black. That's a very elegant way to save some modeling work on an area the player will never physically visit anyway, and it looked pretty damn cool.

While we're not in the golden times of 2006 anymore when one year saw a hundred FM releases (although that was before I even played Thief, I only started in 2010, so I wasn't there to see it), we do get regular releases of consistent quality nowadays.

 

[Max_b5]

What disappoints me the most about Finals at the Academy is that the author spent years at the Editors' Guild posting screenshots of what seemed to be an interesting and entertaining FM. Too bad the final product ended up being an endlessly trip of boring and frustrating gameplay. Even though I finished it, I skipped a lot of secrets because I wanted to win ASAP.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Checking over at TTLG, I spot a topic from Melan where the question is put forth: "What kind of FMs would you most like to see?"

Looking at some of the answers, I can see that people would appreciate something a little different from the mansion heists and the standard cityscape and rooftop missions. I can relate to that.

While I'm not very hot for a big-ass Bonehoard mission (though I wouldn't scoff at it) there is something quite similar that I would wish to see: An Old Quarter-style mission, made by either Melan or skacky or someone of equal caliber. A cityscape that's been abandoned by Man and repopulated by everything but Man. Burricks, Craymen, some zombies, maybe even a small gang of Hammerites or Thieves that went in trying to make a difference but are now reduced to just trying to survive. "Bones" tried something along those lines, but didn't really quite catch the feeling (though it is a nice mission overall). Maybe even a rooftop mission based on the Old Quarter. It's also the perfect setting to incorporate other settings into it without it looking odd or out of place, like some Lost City ruins or a crypt, maybe even having a small "civilized" part of town.

(So why am I not posting this over at TTLG? To be honest, I've long forgotten the password, and can't be arsed to get a new one.)

 

[skacky]

Well... what if I told you there is something akin to that lying somewhere...

 

[Max_b5]

I'm planning (already began actually) on making the last 3 levels of Darkstone Gem completely zombie/beasts themed. As most have already seen the first one takes place in a mine inspired by Cragscleft (and something more than just a mine wohoo). The second one is going to be a mix of Escape!, The Sword, Maw of Chaos and Trail of Blood. And finally the last one is going to be in the Old Quarter with some Bonehoard style segments involved.
Although the process is going slowly, I wanna make sure I do it right as I did with N&C. I'm mostly concerned on the correct use of ambient sounds and textures to create a fitting atmosphere because I already have a picture in my head of what these three maps are going to be.

 

[Melan]

If it is of any comfort, Penny Dreadful 3 will be my last city mission for a while (it will be a big one), and barring collaborations, I will be exploring other ideas in the rest of the PD series, including an Old Quarter-stlye mission. However, this particular mission is planned as PD 6, so it may be some years in the making. Still, I want to do something interesting with PD 4 as well...

 

[Max_b5]

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146203

Is this guy for real? I mean aren't there enough threads of his missions already? I guess there's going to be some "Keeper of Infinity" talk for a while.

 

[JarlFrank]

Guess he just gets off on having the entire first page of the FM subforum filled with threads about his missions.

And to the "different missions" request... well, while I might not be of Melan's, skacky's or Max_b5's caliber (yet), I have some non-standardish things planned once I'm more experienced with Dromed. I'm leaning more towards the Bonehoard than the Old Quarter, though, and the Lost City. Basically an underground journey of discovery that leads you into more and more interesting places the deeper you go.

For my first couple of missions I will probably go with mansions, though, as they're easier to make and I still need practice in building efficiently... my current mission has so many elements of inefficient and weird approaches to building, the resident Dromed experts would probably facepalm if they opened it in the editor.

And overall, mansions are still among my favourite places to taff around in. Especially if they have a twist to them. Ominous Bequest and Rowena's Curse are so awesome because they start out as normal mansion missions and then become something more as you uncover hidden secrets beneath. Wicked Relics is one of my favourite FMs because it's a fun mansion mission with a plot twist ending that spawns hordes of undead (and it's got a funny tone overall, like all of Kfort's missions). Tales from the Cleft: Vandal is also among my favourites for being a mansion with some interesting content that isn't too typical.

I have a couple of missions in my head that I'm going to attempt over the next few months and years. Once you start playing around with Dromed, it grabs you and doesn't want to let you go, for some reason. Some of them are funny and carry my retarded brand of humor, others are weird in the way The Sword is weird (really, there are WAY too few missions that try to be like The Sword, and the Mages don't get enough love either; the more weird/surreal elements of the Thief world don't get enough attention in general), others are just interesting concepts I'm not even sure I'll manage to implement, but I guess I'll see about that.

The second one is going to be a mix of Escape!, The Sword, Maw of Chaos and Trail of Blood.

 

[Yandros]

I for one am really looking forward to playing your missions in the future. Dromed grabbed me 15 years ago and still has a firm hold. :D

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

I'm leaning more towards the Bonehoard than the Old Quarter, though, and the Lost City. Basically an underground journey of discovery that leads you into more and more interesting places the deeper you go.

We need more missions with spelunking and darkness like in The Sinkhole.
I'd like to see a mission like it on a large scale.

 

[Max_b5]

I'm looking forward to playing Dev_Anj and Jarl's fms as well. The screenshots posted by Dev in the Editors' Guild look interesting and having played The Swindle Job I think he's going the right way. When I look back at my first released mission, Down with the Mechanists, I cringe a little bit and it's a good thing I didn't place any readables.

 

[Melan]

So I updated Bad Debts to v1.1 after Apiai did a French translation and I improved the in-game map a bit. No changes made to the mission file. The first comments on TTLG amount to Cardia pestering me whether I have applied some kind of NewDark lighting upgrade, and Bikerdude remarking that he would "replay this if it got optimized for the updated engine".

Sometimes I wonder.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Well Melan, if your missions were perfect the first time (like mine)... you wouldn't need to update them. ;-)

 

[Melan]

And I wouldn't take eight years either.

 

[JarlFrank]

And I wouldn't take eight years either.

Nope, you'd take 15, and then you'd only have a couple of microissues left that have to be solved so the first release can be completely perfect.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Cheers for the update, good to see people care about their past work.

I recently did a replay of "Ominous Bequest (Gold)" to see what precisely it is that makes the mission so awesome.

In one word: Details.
Almost every room in the house has a lightswitch.
Creaky floorboards creak when stepped upon.
Guards pay notice to oddities, like closet doors being open, sprinklers being activated or the lights being turned on/off in a room.
Marvelous use of space in the mansion itself.

It's easily a 9/10 FM, but I did notice a few things that I found odd or would have done differentely myself, which rob it of its final point.

# The mission starts with Garrett falling off the wall because it crumbles beneath him. Within both eyesight and earshot are two guards, yet they choose to do absolutely nothing about part of the wall collapsing. Considering how alert guards are to the smallest change in detail in this FM, this is a noticeable oversight.
# Another oversight is how the guards "on strike" in the gazebo are more than happy to do their intended job and smack Garrett around if they as much as spot him. I would have coded them to not respond to Garrett's presence unless he interacts directly with them (like knock one of them out or try to pickpocket them).
# The mission regresses into a keyhunt at one point, barring all further passage until the respective key(s) have been found. While somewhat annoying, it all but disappears once Garrett gains access to the crypts.
# What is more annoying though, is that this leaves Garrett with around a dozen keys cluttering up his inventory. My fortune for a keyring!
# From the moment Garrett has completed all objectives except escaping, the mission noticeably jumps onto a set of rails and doesn't get off them until Garrett is supposed to kill Kadar, the highpoint of the "story" element of the FM. Garrett MUST go there and he MUST do that, for a section that is just too long. There is nothing wrong with any of these sections, but overall they do drag this section on a bit much.
# For example, right after I've unwillingly aided in Kadar's resurrection and exited Beta chamber, a ghost appears that walks over to an unfrobbable door, opens it and disappears. Inside is a journal written by a scribe both before and after his death, as well as a key that unlocks the path needed to progress. The journal reeks of audiolog syndrome and ultimately does nothing but deliver pointless cringe-worthy exposition. The fact that the Book of Souls is Kadar's horcrux/phylactery has already been established by another readable, not to mention the book itself once Garrett enters Beta chamber, and it shouldn't take a genius to find out where Kadar is now, especially since the FM is on rails at this point. I would have made the ghost just walk over to the "progress" door and unlock that, or just skipped the whole ghost sequence and had the door open by itself, due a small earthquake or whatnot.
# Straight after that we see a Crayman recover the Talisman of Life, after which begins a sequence where Garrett travels through 4 different mini-areas before reaching the crypts again. At this point most people just want to get back to destroy Kadar, so the pace needs to be picked up, not bogged down by this. I would have cut it down to 2 mini-areas, especially skipping that tomb with the zombie in it.
# The two aforementioned points underline what is probably the only real problem with Ominous Bequest: It has too much stuff in it. Yeah, who could have guessed that? DromED, especially with the NewDark patch, allows for a lot of things, but sometimes less is more. And yet, Ominous Bequest did all this without NewDark, so clever thinking can do wonders.

Finally, I can imagine some readers wondering why I would review/tear into an FM as good as Ominous Bequest. The answer is because I'm seeing a lack of self-awareness in modders and their work, where they throw in stuff after stuff without asking themselves: "Is this really necessary?" or "Can't I do this another way?" Thief's modding community is no exception. I may be too late to have notable DromED Taffers change how they make their work, but hopefully I can influence future modmakers to adopt an outside perspective. Maybe I'm hoping for too much, but you never know without trying, right?

 

[murloc_gypsy]

Do you guys know of any FMs set in a known fictional world, like the Dracula campaign for example? It was really nice getting to explore that world and story from the perspective of a thief/stealth-type person

 

[DrKubiac]

There's the Bathory campaign by the same author, and Complicated Cargo by Intruder, which is set in the same universe as Firefly, a tv series I believe. I can't think of any other at the moment.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Do you guys know of any FMs set in a known fictional world, like the Dracula campaign for example? It was really nice getting to explore that world and story from the perspective of a thief/stealth-type person

The same author also did Elisabeth Bathory, so that's the obvious start.

Zontik made King's Story which is a fictional story starring some real-life characters, set in a real-life castle.

Lorgan's Web and its sequel (can't remember the name) apparentely take place in the Discworld.

There are probably others as well.

 

[skacky]

A Journey Into the Underdark is an obvious one (and it's a pretty awesome mission).