Thief: The Dark Project turns 25

[Unkillable Cat]

Speaking of FMs... Which ones would you say are your top 10 "Best Evah!" FMs?

The Widow's Ire/Gems of Provenance campaign [Thief 1/G]
The Seven Sisters [Thief 2/G]
Catacombs of Knoss [Thief 1/G]
Ascend the Dim Valley [Thief 1/G]
The Sound of a Burrick in a Room [Thief 1/G]
Into the Odd [Thief 2]
Endless Rain [Thief 1/G]
Lost Among the Forsaken [Thief 1/G]
Heist Society [Thief 2]
Disorientation [Thief 2]

That would be a rough top ten list, although it was a hard choice to make.
Feast of Pilgrims [Thief 2], Legacy of Knoss [Thief 2], Godbreaker [Thief 2], Augustine's Revenge [Thief 1/G] are just of the same quality as these.

Also, The Black Parade [Thief 1/G], released just a few days ago, is shaping up to become my absolute favorite FM campaign.

Added somewhat relevant information to JarlFrank's reply.

To add to mindx2 question - I've somehow established a reputation as someone who knows too taffin' much about the Thief games, and especially the FMs. Only four of them get a 10/10-rating from me, though. They are (in chronological order):

Bloodmist Tower [Thief 2]
All For a Night's Sleep [Thief 2]
Unbidden Guest [Thief 2]
Lost Among the Forsaken [Already mentioned]

Though I second every single one of JarlFrank's suggestions.

Get a lifeline, you're about to dive into a rabbit hole you may not want to come back from.

EDIT:

Any of these rooftop type missions? Love these vertical missions breaking in through windows.

"Lost Among the Forsaken" is equal parts rooftops and ground. It's just a little bit of everything, don't worry about it.

For pure rooftop shenanigans, "Thieves Highway" immediately springs to mind. It's old, but still solid.

 

[jaekl]

I hate the expert difficulty requirements that fail the mission on kills, it's especially egregious because you miss out on a bunch of cool extra objectives by playing on hard. The true fun of thief is the change from prey into predator, going from cowering in a corner like a bitch, hoping no one sees you to becoming a death dealing badass and getting revenge on all the fuckos who terrorized you as a kid. They still let you kill all the monsters that you want on expert I guess, but listening to the guards freak out when you're tormenting them is half the fun.

 

[Nano]

I hate the expert difficulty requirements that fail the mission on kills, it's especially egregious because you miss out on a bunch of cool extra objectives by playing on hard. The true fun of thief is the change from prey into predator, going from cowering in a corner like a bitch, hoping no one sees you to becoming a death dealing badass and getting revenge on all the fuckos who terrorized you as a kid. They still let you kill all the monsters that you want on expert I guess, but listening to the guards freak out when you're tormenting them is half the fun.

If it makes you feel any better, Garrett realistically kills most of the people he hits with that blackjack of his.

 

[destinae vomitus]

I agree somewhat since knocking out guards is in practice the same as killing them (except it's more quiet and doesn't leave blood behind, so it's actually the superior option) and it prevents you from using some fun toys like explosive mines or the frogthings in 2, but it does help to stop the player from just sniping everyone with arrows and in turn makes the game more involved. Either you have to get up close while they're unaware or use a very finite resource to take them out. Besides, Benny doesn't deserve to die.

 

[JarlFrank]

Do you noobs even lean forward blackjack?

 

[std::namespace]

omg, its completely broken larper trash - just as expected
worse than desu ex... if thats possible
none of tomb raider charm either
and i was shitting on dishonored kek, this is worse

lol im invisible lol im invisible lol im invisible

 

[Arryosha]

Does anyone play according to their own rule set?

On the Eidos forums (I think it was there), there used to be established playstyles with special rules (Lytha style, various types of ghosting), and iirc there was even an official record of users who completed the game on a particular playstyle. (There was also a separate list for explorers who found a way to reach out of the way locations which players were not meant to get to--usually on rooftops. You'd post a pic with instructions on how you got there).

The different rules that made up a playstyle included no alarms, 100% loot, no blackjacking, leaving no trace (closing doors, not using moss arrows or water arrows, etc.), and others I can't remember.

I almost always play on expert with no blackjacking, no water, moss or fire arrows, and no discovery by guards (lower alert levels are okay). This is one reason I especially dislike the Thieves Guild, as its almost impossible to get past the gambling room at the start without being seen.

Thanks for mentioning the Black Parade FM. Got it installed and can't wait to play.

 

[Eirinjas]

Does anyone play according to their own rule set?

On the Eidos forums (I think it was there), there used to be established playstyles with special rules (Lytha style, various types of ghosting), and iirc there was even an official record of users who completed the game on a particular playstyle. (There was also a separate list for explorers who found a way to reach out of the way locations which players were not meant to get to--usually on rooftops. You'd post a pic with instructions on how you got there).

The different rules that made up a playstyle included no alarms, 100% loot, no blackjacking, leaving no trace (closing doors, not using moss arrows or water arrows, etc.), and others I can't remember.

I almost always play on expert with no blackjacking, no water, moss or fire arrows, and no discovery by guards (lower alert levels are okay). This is one reason I especially dislike the Thieves Guild, as its almost impossible to get past the gambling room at the start without being seen.

Thanks for mentioning the Black Parade FM. Got it installed and can't wait to play.

Ghosting seems like it would be extremely time-consuming, and impossible in some missions, especially if you are trying to do 100% loot. While playing The Black Parade today, I was thinking of attempting a playthru of Thief without buying any items in the loadouts - only approaching the missions with starting gear and what can be picked up in the mission. Expert is the only way to play.

 

[VerSacrum]

Does anyone play according to their own rule set?

On the Eidos forums (I think it was there), there used to be established playstyles with special rules (Lytha style, various types of ghosting), and iirc there was even an official record of users who completed the game on a particular playstyle. (There was also a separate list for explorers who found a way to reach out of the way locations which players were not meant to get to--usually on rooftops. You'd post a pic with instructions on how you got there).

The different rules that made up a playstyle included no alarms, 100% loot, no blackjacking, leaving no trace (closing doors, not using moss arrows or water arrows, etc.), and others I can't remember.

I almost always play on expert with no blackjacking, no water, moss or fire arrows, and no discovery by guards (lower alert levels are okay). This is one reason I especially dislike the Thieves Guild, as its almost impossible to get past the gambling room at the start without being seen.

Thanks for mentioning the Black Parade FM. Got it installed and can't wait to play.

Mostly I remember Thief as the games where I did not use quicksave/loads during missions and just tried to get to the goal no matter what, even after discovery.
Wasn't always that easy with Thief 2's huge maps.

 

[NecroLord]

Does anyone play according to their own rule set?

On the Eidos forums (I think it was there), there used to be established playstyles with special rules (Lytha style, various types of ghosting), and iirc there was even an official record of users who completed the game on a particular playstyle. (There was also a separate list for explorers who found a way to reach out of the way locations which players were not meant to get to--usually on rooftops. You'd post a pic with instructions on how you got there).

The different rules that made up a playstyle included no alarms, 100% loot, no blackjacking, leaving no trace (closing doors, not using moss arrows or water arrows, etc.), and others I can't remember.

I almost always play on expert with no blackjacking, no water, moss or fire arrows, and no discovery by guards (lower alert levels are okay). This is one reason I especially dislike the Thieves Guild, as its almost impossible to get past the gambling room at the start without being seen.

Thanks for mentioning the Black Parade FM. Got it installed and can't wait to play.

I very rarely do Ghost runs.
I know there is a youtuber who does Perfect Ghost runs, aka absolutely no alerting the guards whatsoever, that means not even small remarks like "Did you hear that noise?" or "What was that?". He restarts from a previous save if that happens...
Everything has to be perfect.
I find it is way too challenging and requires insane timing.

 

[octavius]

If I had infinite time I would try ghosting. But I don't.

 

[Denim Destroyer]

I play with a self-created, semi ghost, ruleset which prevents the game from becoming tedious while still adding an extra layer of challenge.

• Expert rules
• Minimal water or mass arrow usage.
• Minimal use of the blackjack.
• Try to close doors behind me
• Not stealing items while a guard is in the room and or when they are likely to see it being stolen.
• Cleaning up rope arrows immediately after I use them (realistically if I was a guard, upon noticing a mysteriously appearing strand of rope, I would look up which should spell doom for whoever placed it

 

[NecroLord]

I play with a self-created, semi ghost, ruleset which prevents the game from becoming tedious while still adding an extra layer of challenge.

• Expert rules
• Minimal water or mass arrow usage.
• Minimal use of the blackjack.
• Try to close doors behind me
• Not stealing items while a guard is in the room and or when they are likely to see it being stolen.
• Cleaning up rope arrows immediately after I use them (realistically if I was a guard, upon noticing a mysteriously appearing strand of rope, I would look up which should spell doom for whoever placed it

Same here.
But I sometimes go back and leave keys wherever I originally found them.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's too bad nobody made a decent AI mod, to my knowledge anyway.

I mean there was a mod for Thief 1 that made the AI harder but it felt like an over correction last time i tried it.

 

[JarlFrank]

I always go for 100% knockouts if possible

 

[Lemming42]

Limiting yourself to three blackjack uses per level is fun. If you're into LARPing you can pretend it's chloroform (or whatever that shit in Gas Arrows is), thus explaining the limited amount you carry, why the guards never wake up, and why a weedy loser like Garrett is able to knock burly guards out. Even then though, I really wish KO'd guards could be roused by their allies.

The only full-on Oblivion LARP type thing I do is give the drunk guard outside the well in the first level his key back after pickpocketing it from him, by dropping it on the ground next to him after unlocking the well. I have no idea why I do this but I have since I was a kid.

 

[Erebus]

Thief 1 is a masterpiece. Thief 2 demonstrated why the horror/tomb raiding was necessary to break the monotony of plain stealth in the original.

I guess it's a matter of taste, but my opinion is the opposite : Thief 1 had too many levels with tomb raiding and horror elements, and not enough levels where you feel like an actual thief.

 

[jaekl]

Blackjack is EZ mode, the sword takes more skill because you have to charge it up for an overhead, it makes noise and it leaves incriminating bloodstains.

 

[NecroLord]

I always go for 100% knockouts if possible

Escape! is the only mission where I go for kills. Screw those annoying Ape beasts and Bug beasts.
Though Bug beasts are prime targets for blackjacking, fighting them head on is suicide.

 

[JarlFrank]

Blackjack is EZ mode, the sword takes more skill because you have to charge it up for an overhead, it makes noise and it leaves incriminating bloodstains.

Garrett is a thief, not a murderer. He does not kill.

 

[jaekl]

Blackjack is EZ mode, the sword takes more skill because you have to charge it up for an overhead, it makes noise and it leaves incriminating bloodstains.

Garrett is a thief, not a murderer. He does not kill.

Ya right, how do you explain this then pal??

As we see here, Bafford's Buffoons learned the hard way not to fuck with master thief Garrett and are now blowing bubbles in hell. A lesser thief would do some dumb shit like take a few trinkets and scurry off into a gutter. As a seasoned professional, Garrett steals a whole mansion by right of conquest.

Looking at the stats, we see that Garrett has killed 17 people, or stole their lives as a thief would say. I don't expect you to know the lingo, since you're a noob as far as thievery is concerned.

 

[JarlFrank]

The mark of an amateur.

 

[Lemming42]

I like when the level instantly fails when someone is accidentally killed on Expert, because you dropped their KO'd body into a fireplace or whatever. The game over FMV is still the skull indicating that Garrett is dead, so I assume he commits seppuku instantly if he takes a life. That's the only reason he carries the sword.

 

[jaekl]

Really I don't even need to continue the game after this because Garrett can now retire in his new luxurious mansion. I'm thinking a prison would be a good thing to have though. Might need to lock up any rabble rousers who may be against Garrett's new status as rightful inheritor of bafford's estate.

 

[Lemming42]

Garrett plays for sport. The arsehole's got enough to retire on already, he just keeps going into people's houses for a laugh.