People News This is About Right and Wrong: The Chris Avellone Saga Continues

[Heroic Liberator]

But I'm not sure you can treat sex work the same way as any kind of work. Many of the problems we are discussing have to do with how dating and work tend to clash when thrown together. Would you like to throw sex work into this mess?

Eh, how messier it makes things depends on the person and how one defines their personal boundaries for a relationship. People tend to view sex workers in a negative light since many of them associate sex with romantic intimacy rather than conceptualizing it on its own as a mundane physical activity ergo rendering sex for profit (or even pleasure, from the perspective of puritans who denounce sex outside marriage) is stigmatized as being somehow indicative of a pathology which would either make the sex worker incapable of offering that sort of emotional connection which a romantic relationship requires or cast doubt on her sincerity (i.e. she has rendered sex without being emotionally involved in the past, so she might not be emotionally involved in earnest even now in a relationship).

 

[Dycedarg]

About Violet, I completely understand her disliking Avellone's message and making sure to set some boundaries. It was the fact that she brought it up several years later, after Chris apologized, as a way to "prove" he was a sex pest that should be a red flag for anyone seeing it. She did it for brownie points, to make every simp in the gaming industry sympathize with her "poor opressed womyn" sob story, and it obviously worked like a charm.

If you are a whore, you don't get to complain about being propositioned. Even during your off hours.

I mean, you can complain if the guy is extremely rude and deny him "service", but being propositioned is literaly part of her job description. We are not talking about being threatened or coerced here, just receiving a rude message. That's why her being a prostitute is kinda relevant.

 

[mondblut]

If you are a whore, you don't get to complain about being propositioned. Even during your off hours.

I mean, you can complain if the guy is extremely rude and deny him "service", but being propositioned is literaly part of her job description. We are not talking about being threatened or coerced here, just receiving a rude message. That's why her being a prostitute is kinda relevant.

Absolutely, that's the fucking point. If you are a plumber, you should expect your friends and acquaintances to occasionally ask you to fix their plumbing. If you are a coder, get ready to be pestered with requests to check why someone's PC fails to boot (because that's what coders do, as far as normies are concerned). And if you are a whore, well...

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I mean, you can complain if the guy is extremely rude and deny him "service", but being propositioned is literaly part of her job description. We are not talking about being threatened or coerced here, just receiving a rude message. That's why her being a prostitute is kinda relevant.

Yeah, but her job description doesn't apply to her social life outside work. And MCA certainly didn't send those cringey texts as a work proposition for her, but simply as a 'flirt' (nor was he aware of her past as a sex worker presumably, not that it'd make a difference).

 

[Mustawd]

I mean, you can complain if the guy is extremely rude and deny him "service", but being propositioned is literaly part of her job description. We are not talking about being threatened or coerced here, just receiving a rude message. That's why her being a prostitute is kinda relevant.

Yeah, but her job description doesn't apply to her social life outside work. And MCA certainly didn't send those cringey texts as a work proposition for her, but simply as a 'flirt' (nor was he aware of her past as a sex worker presumably, not that it'd make a difference).

Again, they've had a flirtatious tweet exchange in the past. It's not like he's texted the local church organ player at random, ffs.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Again, they've had a flirtatious tweet exchange in the past. It's not like he's texted the local church organ player at random, ffs.

I'm not condoning her moralist attack on MCA, particularly when it was launched years after the fact.

 

[mondblut]

Yeah, but her job description doesn't apply to her social life outside work.

Sure, you can tell your friends "I only take plumbing requests from 9 to 17 during workdays" (and be seen as kind of a cunt eventually), but there is still no harm in asking.

 

[DeepOcean]

If my daughter says: "Dad, I want to be a prostitute." I will be sad and feel she is wasting her life, if she says she is going to be a gaming journalist though, now, there I would get seriously worried though, at least sex workers provide a real service for the community.

"Gaming journalist" is just a prostitute that mostly uses their hands and mouth.

Nah, sex workers are much better, they are wonderful, you give them money and they give you something in return, you cant claim that about most women though.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Yeah, but her job description doesn't apply to her social life outside work.

Sure, you can tell your friends "I only take plumbing requests from 9 to 17 during workdays" (and be seen as kind of a cunt eventually), but there is still no harm in asking.

Yep, but that's not what he did. There's no harm in formally asking for a service, but he instead went for flirting with the expectation of sex as a social arrangement (whether romantic or just FwB) and she refused him in that light.

 

[The Jester]

Now, be fair with me - when was the last time he has designed a narrative, for which he's so beloved? Contracting him to write individual party members is a vanity move on the part of his contractors...

.... and? Even if just with a minor role, he was still part of the industry. And even if he wasn't, his past alone is enough to make this a relevant piece of news for the users of this forum.

Moreover, minor role or not, Nok-Nok and Durance are the best written characters in their respective games. That has to count for something.

This is where I disagree vehemently. Past projects alone do not validate turning the front page into a gossip section. After all, very few (if any) of us have interacted with Chris Avellone, past the infrequent forum encounters where he appears here drunk to complain about Obsidian, instead we have played his games. Himself as a person does not concern me much. Himself as a brand of writing, sure. I'm able to discuss it, endorse it when worth endorsing, dismiss when fit for dismissal.

Frankly, talking about Avellone's legal bouts and relationship stints is symptomatic of an unhealthy shift of interests past Gamergate.

You're neither Black nor Storyfag.

Either change your avatar or fuck off.

We three are one person.

 

[mondblut]

Sure, you can tell your friends "I only take plumbing requests from 9 to 17 during workdays" (and be seen as kind of a cunt eventually), but there is still no harm in asking.

Yep, but that's not what he did. There's no harm in formally asking for a service, but he instead went for flirting with the expectation of sex as a social arrangement (whether romantic or just FwB) and she refused him in that light.

Friends don't often ask for services formally (and do hope for a free ride). Still no harm in asking.

Hey, even if you ask your plumber friend to pay you a midnight visit and flush your shit real good, it's still not witchunt-worthy.

 

[Dycedarg]

Eh, how messier it makes things depends on the person and how one defines their personal boundaries for a relationship. People tend to view sex workers in a negative light since many of them associate sex with romantic intimacy rather than conceptualizing it on its own as a mundane physical activity ergo rendering sex for profit (or even pleasure, from the perspective of puritans who denounce sex outside marriage) is stigmatized as being somehow indicative of a pathology which would either make the sex worker incapable of offering that sort of emotional connection which a romantic relationship requires or cast doubt on her sincerity (i.e. she has rendered sex without being emotionally involved in the past, so she might not be emotionally involved in earnest even now in a relationship).

If we're talking about personal relationships, I fully agree with you. Everyone should have the liberty to define what is and what isn't a deal breaker in a romantic relationship. I even think it's reasonable not to discriminate former sex workers (emphasis on the former) against them if they are trying to have another career. But mixing sex work with other kinds of work in a professional enviroment is a recipe for disaster. Think of the kind of incentives that would create. That's why I don't think sex work is just another kind of work.

Yeah, but her job description doesn't apply to her social life outside work. And MCA certainly didn't send those cringey texts as a work proposition for her, but simply as a 'flirt' (nor was he aware of her past as a sex worker presumably, not that it'd make a difference).

Agree. But based on her past experiences, she should be able to tell the difference between a guy being a douche and some major sex pest red flag. That makes her actions look more malicious.

 

[Roguey]

One of you has been here since 2013 the other not even a year

cherry blossom has actually been here in some form since 2005 https://rpgcodex.net/forums/profile-posts/30593/

An ur-example of

 

[Dexter]

Yeah, but her job description doesn't apply to her social life outside work. And MCA certainly didn't send those cringey texts as a work proposition for her, but simply as a 'flirt' (nor was he aware of her past as a sex worker presumably, not that it'd make a difference).

If you unironically use the word "sex worker" to refer to a whore/hooker/prostitute and then go on babbling something about "romantic intimacy" and "emotional connections" in said context you've officially lost the right to complain about "cringe".

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Friends don't often ask for services formally (and do hope for a free ride). Still no harm in asking.

Formal in the sense of being done in reference to her job. MCA flirted with her with the implied goal of obtaining a certain type of interpersonal interaction which is sexual in nature as a social acquaintance (friend or prospective lover), not an impersonal service in light of her work background. She simply responded in an appropriate manner to the type of social interaction initiated by MCA.

But mixing sex work with other kinds of work in a professional enviroment is a recipe for disaster. Think of the kind of incentives that would create. That's why I don't think sex work is just another kind of work.

Eh, I disagree. If one is a professional masseuse who is now working in another field, people in the workplace shouldn't expect massages just because. The workplace is a professional environment and the interactions therein must be kept professional (and if you become friends with your co-workers, then you need to compartmentalize it - co-workers at work, friends or more outside work).

Agree. But absed on her past experiences, she should be able to tell the difference between a guy being a douche and some major sex pest red flag. That makes her actions look more malicious.

They were malicious, no doubt about that.

 

[Abracadabra]

One of you has been here since 2013 the other not even a year

cherry blossom has actually been here in some form since 2005 https://rpgcodex.net/forums/profile-posts/30593/

An ur-example of

cherry blossom is denizsi! A real girl after all?

 

[Roguey]

A real girl after all?

This depends on what your definition of "real" is.

 

[NJClaw]

So she did porn at some point, omg how dare she demand respect and actually get it The part about James Deen is unfortunate but so what?

"So what"? "SO WHAT"?

Do you really see no problem whatsoever with ruining one man's life bandwagoning on fake sexual assault accusations while drooling over a renowned rapist and begging him to fuck you?

Are you fucking serious?

 

[Abracadabra]

A real girl after all?

This depends on what your definition of "real" is.

What do you mean? It is a girl name!

 

[Abracadabra]

Do you really see no problem whatsoever with ruining one man's life bandwagoning on fake sexual assault accusations while drooling over a renowned rapist and begging him to fuck you?

What if the rapist was hot and the other guy was fat?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Do you really see no problem whatsoever with ruining one man's life bandwagoning on fake sexual assault accusations while drooling over a renowned rapist and begging him to fuck you?

What if the rapist was hot and the other guy was fat?

Ed123 got #MeToo'd?

 

[Abracadabra]

Do you really see no problem whatsoever with ruining one man's life bandwagoning on fake sexual assault accusations while drooling over a renowned rapist and begging him to fuck you?

What if the rapist was hot and the other guy was fat?

Ed123 got #MeToo'd?

If he comes into contact with women it is harassment for sure!

 

[DeepOcean]

To be fair, if you say sexual harassment words to random women like: "I like RPGs." or "I'm broke."

Dont worry, if you ever leave the broke status, she will remember your threatening fat oppressive nerd presense and how you psychologically assaulted her.

 

[Xie Ma]

To be fair, if you say sexual harassment words to random women like: "I like RPGs." or "I'm broke."

Dont worry, if you ever leave the broke status, she will remember your threatening fat oppressive nerd presense and how you psychologically assaulted her.

Is this normal behaviour for a woman on the west nowadays? I hope not, because that’s pretty messed up

 

[Shitty Kitty]

Is this normal behaviour for a woman on the west nowadays? I hope not, because that’s pretty messed up

It's more pervasive, actually. There's a kind of deliberately-effected self-absorbed sociopathy running through the veins of society like a poison. Possibly accelerated by the Internet, possibly just more visible because of it.