People News This is About Right and Wrong: The Chris Avellone Saga Continues

[TheDiceMustRoll]

Funny how this conveniently drops during the biggest insurrection in RPG Codex history.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

??????????

 

[Commissar Draco]

there is nothing inherently shameful in using one's body to earn an honest pay.

Location: Евразия

Most people in Eastern Europe and thereabout *are* prejudiced against sex workers.

Just as they are against hobos and garbage people its low status job associated with criminal and lumpen elements. Doesn't changes that both are needed for any society unlike game journalists and most lawyers and politicians or media celebrities, you dont want to encourage adultery or female promiscuity if you want your society harmonious and strong.

Btw only one hundred years ago actors were also social pariahs so if (((usual suspects))) will do their magic they can make even whores respected career choice, doesn't means its relative or such stupid shit the stygma against whores and sluts is natural and present in all societies which did not got wiped out or imploded thanks to severe case of social decadence.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

For the record, I mentioned the porn star thing because it's an interesting factoid.

But I enjoy the way this thread has spiralled.

Carry on.

 

[Vladimuar]

Does anybody have Cherry Blossom's nude pics? Abstract matters are boring.

 

[Lord of Riva]

But I'm not sure you can treat sex work the same way as any kind of work. Many of the problems we are discussing have to do with how dating and work tend to clash when thrown together. Would you like to throw sex work into this mess?

Eh, how messier it makes things depends on the person and how one defines their personal boundaries for a relationship. People tend to view sex workers in a negative light since many of them associate sex with romantic intimacy rather than conceptualizing it on its own as a mundane physical activity ergo rendering sex for profit (or even pleasure, from the perspective of puritans who denounce sex outside marriage) is stigmatized as being somehow indicative of a pathology which would either make the sex worker incapable of offering that sort of emotional connection which a romantic relationship requires or cast doubt on her sincerity (i.e. she has rendered sex without being emotionally involved in the past, so she might not be emotionally involved in earnest even now in a relationship).

I want to point out that the feminists have launched massive efforts to take the rights of prostitutes away (I am just using prostitutes as i do not want to play word games, the jobs reputation does not change just by renaming it) with the Nordic Model, also i just want to note that the costumers of the prostitutes are at least equally stigmatized and often way more than the prostitutes.

Now in general I agree with your viewpoint, especially as you mention that it is personal boundaries that assign value to the materialistic view on sex in relationships, that seems to be an objective assessment.

However there is some discrepancy between what is seen as a relevant factor in this case for perceiving who was the one in the wrong.
And here it seems totally fine to mention that MCA seems to enjoy getting drunk (with women) and that is used to argue that his "wrongful" behavior could be linked to his drinking habit.

I have not seen anyone, i believe, saying that drunks should be protected against the stigma that they do shit when they are drunk because that is unjust. In fact most people perfectly understand that people are more prone to do stupid things when drunk.

The same must hold true for prostitutes, I agree that they provide a service, especially to men who are incapable of forming an intimate relationship. I do appreciate that there are women who are decidedly not prone to act on their Hypergamy and allow a materialistic view on their sexuality.

However in a case like this, people try to understand the issue anecdotally, just as it is with MCA being drunk, as we simply do not have all the information to judge it objectively. It is correct that people tend to be less inhibited when drunk, which would explain the texts he send to the woman *but* we do not know if that is the case, it's anecdotal and at that it is fair.

The same should be applied to Her Prostitution, it is true that a woman who sold sex is not necessarily more open or should be treated differently when it comes to sex offenses, however at the same time one can anecdotally assume that if a woman has a materialistic outlook on selling her body for sex that she would be liberal in both giving and receiving advances. That is not a moral jugdement but a rational one as it comes with the territory of her (former?) work.

That the setting is indeed professional is also an assumption, not truth, we do not know how "relaxed" the setting was, and from my experience it most likely involved drinking heavily as that is what one does after working for days in a con that would also be in line with MCA seemingly being drunk as shit that does normally not happen in a professional environment.

 

[Nutria]

I find the porn thing baffling. Women don't make money off of porn because that's not how the economy works now (and hasn't for a very long time). It's just a way of advertising yourself as a high-end prostitute.

I don't look down on hookers (male or female). We all do what we gotta do. What I find incredibly confusing though is a person who puts out an ad for themself as a prostitute and then starts acting like a Victorian lady later. Just tell the guy that you don't do that stuff anymore.

There's an incredibly strange double standard in our society where some black kid steals a t-shirt from the mall and he gets fucked for life but women expect to have no consequences for their actions.

 

[Vladimuar]

All hookers must go to GULAG

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Corelation does not imply causation. Games went to shit when and because they became mainstream.

Commercial or regular games were always mainstream.

That's just untrue. Gaming became mainstream about early to middle 00s. Before that it was just a niche hobby.

 

[jackofshadows]

It's amusing and all but making few porn vids =/= being a sex-worker or a whore. With that said, Violet is still a huge hypocrite because of the James Deen situation.

 

[Lord of Riva]

It's amusing and all but making few porn vids =/= being a sex-worker or a whore.

please elaborate, I heard selling sex is "sex work". so how does that work? That is going to be a fully semantic argument right?

 

[Irxy]

Her actual contributions have been over exaggerated by her. Robert Sirotek explained this when he went on Matt Chat. If I recall correctly, she started off working as an intern, and did some minor script work for Wizardry 8 and Jagged Alliance 2?

In Wizardry 8 credits she is the only person listed for Story and NPC Dialogue & scripting, doesn't seem minor. Not that Wizardry 8 story is anything to be too proud about.

 

[TF]

Whatever happens, it may be that Avellone produces some of his best work after this is over. Kinda like that Jerry Lee Lewis album 'Live at the Star Club' which was after the whole scandal over his child bride and his downfall, resulting in performances in smaller venues which were unhinged and creatively unleashed.

Red Pilled Avellone could be quite something. Right...? Right?!?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Her actual contributions have been over exaggerated by her. Robert Sirotek explained this when he went on Matt Chat. If I recall correctly, she started off working as an intern, and did some minor script work for Wizardry 8 and Jagged Alliance 2?

In Wizardry 8 credits she is the only person listed for Story and NPC Dialogue & scripting, doesn't seem minor. Not that Wizardry 8 story is anything to be too proud about.

Despite the super cheesy setup, the writing in Wiz8 is very good. I'd say better than most games you see people on the codex usually naming as well written.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Her actual contributions have been over exaggerated by her. Robert Sirotek explained this when he went on Matt Chat. If I recall correctly, she started off working as an intern, and did some minor script work for Wizardry 8 and Jagged Alliance 2?

In Wizardry 8 credits she is the only person listed for Story and NPC Dialogue & scripting, doesn't seem minor. Not that Wizardry 8 story is anything to be too proud about.

Despite the super cheesy setup, the writing in Wiz8 is very good. I'd say better than most games you see people on the codex usually naming as well written.

The cheese is a feature, and a good one. I feel like Wiz8 does a good job at marrying the goofy writing (plot and setting with the voice actors who are clearly having fun hamming it up. There aren't many games like it. Certainly not anymore.

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[cherry blossom]

So she did porn at some point, omg how dare she demand respect and actually get it The part about James Deen is unfortunate but so what?

"So what"? "SO WHAT"?

Do you really see no problem whatsoever with ruining one man's life bandwagoning on fake sexual assault accusations while drooling over a renowned rapist and begging him to fuck you?

Are you fucking serious?

How is this related to doing porn? Besides, the one who did porn isn't the one making the accusation. You got them mixed up.

 

[jackofshadows]

It's amusing and all but making few porn vids =/= being a sex-worker or a whore.

please elaborate, I heard selling sex is "sex work". so how does that work? That is going to be a fully semantic argument right?

Well, I just wanted to stress that Violet isn't a proper porn-actress which in turn of course should be labeled as "sex-worker". Nowadays, in general many girls with relaxed moral standarts doing various porn vids (exlusively with their bf for example) or go to castings or refrain to camwhore stuff or even soft thot stuff. Labeling them all as "whores" or even "sex-workers" seems as kinda lazy and ineffective approach. I'd like to know on what exact terms she did those JD vids for starters, she probably got paid but I'm far from being sure.

 

[Irxy]

Eh, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Social attitudes towards sex workers are a subjective matter varying from culture to culture and from time to time. Ultimately, there is nothing inherently shameful in using one's body to earn an honest pay.

True, even if some people here don't agree, yet this is off the topic a bit.
Point was, if you willingly put your porn video on public display, you loose moral ground to be offended by sexy comments. Especially since it's not even a case of youth mistakes she condemns and wants to forget, but is actually open and acceptive about the fact, proud even.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Point was, if you willingly put your porn video on public display, you loose moral ground to be offended by sexy comments.

I disagree. She shouldn't be offended if someone asked her if she'd be open for some paid sex or what not, but that's not what happened here. To draw a silly analogy - if I am a professional wine connoisseur, I shouldn't be offended if someone from my social circle asks me to taste a particular wine and give them a professional review of it; if someone bothers me with some cringy messages about going out to drink with them though, it is perfectly justified for me to be annoyed. "But you drink wine for a living, bro" doesn't excuse such behavior.

Although I should reemphasize that I am not taking her side in the whole MCA debacle and I think that her accusations were launched purely out of spite and with malicious intent behind them.

 

[Quillon]

 

[Irxy]

Point was, if you willingly put your porn video on public display, you loose moral ground to be offended by sexy comments.

I disagree. She shouldn't be offended if someone asked her if she'd be open for some paid sex or what not, but that's not what happened here. To draw a silly analogy - if I am a professional wine connoisseur, I shouldn't be offended if someone from my social circle asks me to taste a particular wine and give them a professional review of it; if someone bothers me with some cringy messages about going out to drink with them though, it is perfectly justified for me to be annoyed. "But you drink wine for a living, bro" doesn't excuse such behavior.

Although I should reemphasize that I am not taking her side in the whole MCA debacle and I think that her accusations were launched purely out of spite and with malicious intent behind them.

Come on, how is it even supposed to work?
"Hello world, look how I put a pineapple in my vag in this video!"
"Hey girl, nice vag, wanna meet?"
"OMG, HARASSMENT!"
I think you miss the point that porn is a public thing, unlike most jobs, you accept all minor nuances the moment you start doing it. Unlike prostitution, for example. There are still certain lines of course, but one-shot cringy messages is not it.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Come on, how is it even supposed to work?
"Hello world, look how I put a pineapple in my vag in this video!"
"Hey girl, nice vag, wanna meet?"
"OMG, HARASSMENT!"

That was a conversation between two social acquaintances, not between a porn star and a prospective client. Cringy flirting is cringy and she is free to respond to it however she likes. (Which is not to say that it constitutes harassment in a legal sense, just MCA's behavior being an annoyance to her.)

 

[NJClaw]

So she did porn at some point, omg how dare she demand respect and actually get it The part about James Deen is unfortunate but so what?

"So what"? "SO WHAT"?

Do you really see no problem whatsoever with ruining one man's life bandwagoning on fake sexual assault accusations while drooling over a renowned rapist and begging him to fuck you?

Are you fucking serious?

How is this related to doing porn? Besides, the one who did porn isn't the one making the accusation. You got them mixed up.

No, I didn't get anyone mixed up. She's the one who accused him of incredibly inappropriate behavior for misinterpreting a very misinterpretable text.

You're so biased it's almost unreal. Nobody apart from the serial shitposters have any problem whatsoever with her doing porn. Her drooling over a renowned rapist and begging him to bring her into the porn scene is the problem, considering that at the same time she's accusing Chris of inappropriate behavior because he sent her an explicit text when she wanted to enter the videogame industry:

This was before I was fulltime in the games industry, but knew I wanted a future in it and was actively working towards that. Chris was one of the ‘industry greats’ I was frankly flattered to even know let alone be friendly with. So I forgave and regularly asked him career advice.

I felt sick and upset when I woke up next to my then-boyfriend and saw this. I felt guilty like it was my fault. I remember messaging @crecenteb as soon as I saw this because he was another industry friend I really respected. Bless Brian for talking me through the initial pain.

"Oh no, I told this guy who works in the videogame industry I needed a third-wheeling strategy to quit a date and now he sent me an explicit text, that's disgusting, how could he, I will never recover, he deserves to have his life ruined. Meanwhile, let's ask this renowned rapist to fuck me in the ass, he's a cool guy and deserves my utmost respect and admiration."

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Nichegamer is a filthy fucking weeb but the site is generally honest, if nothing else.

 

[Irxy]

Come on, how is it even supposed to work?
"Hello world, look how I put a pineapple in my vag in this video!"
"Hey girl, nice vag, wanna meet?"
"OMG, HARASSMENT!"

That was a conversation between two social acquaintances, not between a porn star and a prospective client. Cringy flirting is cringy and she is free to respond to it however she likes. (Which is not to say that it constitutes harassment in a legal sense, just MCA's behavior being an annoyance to her.)

Free? Yes. Justified? No.