Company News This Is Like That Thing Annie Carlson Is Working On

[Forest Dweller]

What the fuck, people? Indie game = shitty graphics. This has never been a secret. Something has to give on a project with a small team and budget.

 

[The Vanished One]

But I repeat, the demo WILL have higher resolutions than 800x600. We will be implementing them after we finish some tweaks to the AI and the save system.

Is it safe to assume that we'll be able to enjoy 16:10 fullscreen (e.g. 1440x900) in the final version, with properly placed interface? Note that I don't mind small UI (as long as it doesn't become unusable) or small text (as long as it is readable) but I'd really rather have a proper widescreen interface, be it wider or centered or whatever you think is best.

edit:

What the fuck, people? Indie game = shitty graphics. This has never been a secret. Something has to give on a project with a small team and budget.

The problem --at least for me-- is more with art direction than with graphics. AoD has some nice world and item art, and that is what matters for me. I would not consider buying it if it hadn't this. The graphics are just fine, I have no problem with them, they aren't shitty at all.

 

[Elhoim]

But I repeat, the demo WILL have higher resolutions than 800x600. We will be implementing them after we finish some tweaks to the AI and the save system.

Is it safe to assume that we'll be able to enjoy 16:10 fullscreen (e.g. 1440x900) in the final version, with properly placed interface? Note that I don't mind small UI (as long as it doesn't become unusable) or small text (as long as it is readable) but I'd really rather have a proper widescreen interface, be it wider or centered or whatever you think is best.

We'll probably add some horrible embossed textures to the sides of the GUI when you are inside the different screens, and to the sides of the main GUI.

 

[GarfunkeL]

What the fuck, people? Indie game = shitty graphics. This has never been a secret. Something has to give on a project with a small team and budget.

But it also has something to do with art design/direction and... I dunno. I can easily play Infinity-engine games still but after NWN2, old NWN looks blocky and ugly as shit - I don't really want to play it anymore. I can easily play Gold Box games but Geneforge/Avernum-series turned me off. Dwarf Fortress is hooking but I hate rogue-likes.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

They offered me to print 250k boxes (not a lot, but...), a decent advance vs royalties, and a 100k marketing budget (not a lot, but...). I wanted 500k boxes

My point is, the engine's already showing its age and pretty much cripples your team's potential. Unless you somehow manage to overcome this limitation, you should start looking for an alternative to Torque.

For the record, I agree. What VD totally needs to do for his unfinished and unreleased game that's probably still a good two years away from release, is to change engines. That'll make it come out faster! Like Duke Nukem!

Actually, studying those screens to me AoD looks closer to Crysis than Geneforge. And doesn't Geneforge sell decently?

Fuck Geneforge. What about this fugly piece of shit? Someone explain to me how that sold any copies.

 

[Vault Dweller]

We need MOAR boxes!

Well, it's not like I care how many unsold copies each store would be stuck with. It's not about MOAR boxes. It's about wider distribution. EB Games has 4,400 stores in North America or so they claim. Put 50 copies in every store and that's already 220k copies. Then there is Walmart and electronic chains, etc. The only advantage publishers offer is huge distribution networks, which greatly increase the chance of people buying your game. A smaller distribution would reach a lot less people, probably wouldn't reach people in small towns at all (where people don't have the latest gaming rigs), and produce less sales.

 

[Silellak]

What the fuck, people? Indie game = shitty graphics. This has never been a secret. Something has to give on a project with a small team and budget.

But it also has something to do with art design/direction and... I dunno. I can easily play Infinity-engine games still but after NWN2, old NWN looks blocky and ugly as shit - I don't really want to play it anymore. I can easily play Gold Box games but Geneforge/Avernum-series turned me off. Dwarf Fortress is hooking but I hate rogue-likes.

NWN1 always looked blocky and ugly as shit. It was a side-effect of the simplistic tile system designed to make the toolset somewhat usable.

NWN2 has a much more flexible system for the outside areas, which is why they look significantly better, but also why designing areas in the NWN2 toolset is such a fucking pain.

 

[aboyd]

...a bunch of normal, expected, typical programming rules...

Dear sweet Jesus. No wonder its been so long until Thursday. That thing is a clusterfuck. I'd love to look into getting you something less crappy if I can find the time. I used to be fairly decent with SWIG.

You think because null values evaluate to zero, the engine sucks? I think that says more about you than it says about the engine.

You think ripping the engine out and replacing it with something you selected will make Thursday come more quickly at this late stage in development? Really? Again, I think that tells me more about you than it does anything else.

What the fuck, people? Indie game = shitty graphics.

But it also has something to do with art design/direction and... I dunno. I can easily play Infinity-engine games still but after NWN2, old NWN looks blocky and ugly as shit - I don't really want to play it anymore.

I can play NWN1 just fine, even after a bout with NWN2.

You know, I haven't really sworn or cursed in any of my posts on the Codex, but what the fuck has happened to this site? This thread is full of fail -- whiney prima donnas going on about making graphics pretty. Jesus Christ! Have you all lost your fucking dicks? Man the fuck up or get the fuck off this site.

GarfunkeL, that wasn't directed at you, by the way. My comment is directed toward the whole thread. Although Morgoth in particular is a disgrace.

 

[bhlaab]

I don't think people here even bothered to read the newspost before bitching about this doublebear game.

Announcing an open world rpg based on social dynamics and survival. Based in Manhattan following a Martian attack

Great, just what we need another linear combat-oriented Tolkien ripoff game!

 

[DarkUnderlord]

We need MOAR boxes!

Well, it's not like I care how many unsold copies each store would be stuck with. It's not about MOAR boxes. It's about wider distribution. EB Games has 4,400 stores in North America or so they claim. Put 50 copies in every store and that's already 220k copies.

Erm... 50 copies at every store is a bit optimistic isn't it? My local didn't even have that many copies of FO3 on hand (they currently have 1 and if they run out, they get more in from their supplier which takes all of a day or two).

If you put 4 copies in every store (enough for display on the limited shelf space they have) and keep the rest at a warehouse / distribution centre, then it's only 17,600 copies on display with maybe 20k sitting in a warehouse to be shipped out if required. No offense but I don't see AoD flying off the shelves quite like Oblivion and it's certainly not going to have the marketing campaign of FO3, even with Bethesda as the publisher.

probably wouldn't reach people in small towns at all

As opposed to your other strategy of riding your bike all over North America to hand deliver a copy to every small country games store which might be lucky to sell maybe 1 copy of any of their games in a given day? And this is the high-quality $20-a-pop-to-make self-made box I assume.

Have you got any numbers you're basing the 500k off? Comparable indie game releases like M&B or something?

 

[MetalCraze]

They produce everything you need and package it, so it's one stop shopping.

gud

At the moment the game's official resolution is 800x600. That's what the interface is "configured" to. Higher resolutions aren't a priority, but will be added later.

At least make one widescreen resolution - stretched image doesn't look good.

 

[Vault Dweller]

If you put 4 copies in every store (enough for display on the limited shelf space they have) and keep the rest at a warehouse / distribution centre, then it's only 17,600 copies on display with maybe 20k sitting in a warehouse to be shipped out if required.

Shipping across the country is expensive. According to the publisher, a game like AoD will be shipped once. The quantities will wary based on all kinds of data, but I guess they ship more to stores that sell more [of high profile titles] and less or none to smaller stores in smaller areas, which is basically why I asked to increase the quantity. The publisher seemed to be certain that they can sell 250k [to the stores], so I asked to double it to see what happens. I could have settled for 350k.

The marketing thing was a bigger issue. That's what killed it. I didn't want dumb ads aimed at the wrong target audience. There were other issues as well, like the publisher insisting on the same price for digital download and retail, really cheap and shitty box (to save money), etc.

No offense but I don't see AoD flying off the shelves quite like Oblivion and it's certainly not going to have the marketing campaign of FO3, even with Bethesda as the publisher.

Didn't they print 2 mil copies for Oblivion (or so)? I didn't ask for that, and no I don't expect to see AoD flying off the shelves, but you can't sell every printed copy and if you want to sell 100k, which is abysmal for retail, you need to print a lot more than that.

According to the publisher, the manufacturing cost was 2.63, so 500k copies would cost them 1.3 mil. Seems like a lot of money, of course, but we know what it cost to pay for development these days, so 1 mil is nothing. Suggested retail price was 39.99. They have to sell only 32k units to recover this investment. Well, there are distribution costs involved, royalties, marketing, so let's make it 75k copies. If they sell 200k copies, which is possible with good distribution and right marketing, they probably triple their investment.

As opposed to your other strategy of riding your bike all over North America to hand deliver a copy to every small country games store which might be lucky to sell maybe 1 copy of any of their games in a given day? And this is the high-quality $20-a-pop-to-make self-made box I assume.

No, of course not, but if I do it in my own, I make a lot more, %-wise, make it pretty much upfront, without waiting for the publisher to make his money back. On my own I'll sell at best 20k, but 20k on my own means a lot more than 100k with a publisher. Like I said, the main advantage of going with a publisher is a large distribution network reaching places I won't reach. A greatly reduced network doesn't have the same value, imo.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

No offense but I don't see AoD flying off the shelves quite like Oblivion and it's certainly not going to have the marketing campaign of FO3, even with Bethesda as the publisher.

Didn't they print 2 mil copies for Oblivion (or so)?

Well, that was partly my point. Even with a few million copies, my local only ever has 5 or so on hand at any one time. I do know a metric fuckton of that Star Wars pod racer game were made that never got sold.

I know your "50 copies per store" was a bit hap-hazard but it seemed wildly so and was wondering whether you based that on anything.

Like I said, the main advantage of going with a publisher is a large distribution network reaching places I won't reach. A greatly reduced network doesn't have the same value, imo

Ok. Just seemed odd you'd asked for 500k units and I was curious if you intended to reach the small towns you seem to want to get to without a publisher anyway.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Risen, for example, wasn't going to get published without having a 360 version as well. The times of PC only RPGs are over, kiddo.

 

[Andhaira]

I hope VD is transparent about how many copies of AoD he sells.

VD if you make enough money do you mean to splurge and buy a BMW or Lexus or something?

 

[Double Ogre]

Risen, for example, wasn't going to get published without having a 360 version as well. The times of PC only RPGs are over, kiddo.

Are you retarded or what? What is it about "niche RPG" that you don't understand? It is intentional that VD doesn't aim for "a predictable large fan base". Hell, I don't even think that it matters to him how much profit does this game make, if any. If you're disappointed that this game doesn't have shiny graphics and achievements, you can fuck off, nobody cares about your shitty opinion.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

This place is really going down the gurgler at an alarming pace. Best option is to scare everyone away from this thread.

Yes, I have a cunning plan...

Back! Back to the Elderscrolls forums with you! The graphics are horrible, and the art direction non existing!

 

[Darth Roxor]

It’s just another day of my life
In the high res next gen wonderland
I curse the sun
Getting out of bed
I hope my sell-by date
Didn’t expire yesterday

The torture porn on the red roy disc
A sweet kiss of liquid modernity
We have no time for your mistakes
Dial
Search
Accept

"Here, you have to run as fast as you can to stay in the same place."

You’re too blurry my friend
You’re too slow
You’re too predictable
Too below
This is all I can hear in my mind
When I try to believe
I’ll stand the pace of this run

Breathe in
Breathe out

It’s just another day of my life
Dial
Search
Accept

 

[MetalCraze]

Morgoth says it like there is at least one multiplatform RPG in existence that wasn't an inferior port from PC. Speaking of which back in 90s games like Ultima and Wizardry had console versions too and it wasn't an end of any era. Morgoth is an idiot but let him carry on.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Morgoth says it like there is at least one multiplatform RPG in existence that wasn't an inferior port from PC. Speaking of which back in 90s games like Ultima and Wizardry had console versions too and it wasn't an end of any era. Morgoth is an idiot but let him carry on.

Ironically, PC ports used to be the shit ports originally. Seems like history is starting to repeat itself.

 

[denizsi]

If AOD goes well and sells a lot, you should definitely switch to Unity at some point before starting a new project, what with all the limitations on Torque, and the perceived inflexilibity. Unity is amazing.

http://unity3d.com/

It has great references as well. Cleve is supposedly using Unity for his Corpse Crew scam

 

[Rohit_N]

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

500k of copies? Are you fucking stupid?

 

[denizsi]

I don't understand that drawing.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

It's a preposterous notion RPG Codex likes something.