Thursday is finally here.

[commie]

And environmental interaction? Roxor and commie, did you seriously enjoy going through all the random barrels and boxes in Neverwinter Nights, hunting down those oh-so-logical gems and gold coins, left lying around? Are you the sort of person who goes through every single house in every village and town in BG1&2 to loot them because their OCD doesn't allow otherwise? Fuck me.

Nice strawman with the barrels...Who was asking for this?

But yeah, sneaking by sleeping characters in Gothic or waiting for the right moment to steal in Fallout wasn't enjoyable or immersive, right? It wasn't hard in those games to make characters 'give a fuck' eh?
I enjoyed looking at items and getting descriptions for hints and clues in the gameworld in games as diverse as Fallout, Might and Magic, Gold Box...in order to solve puzzles inherent to it. Certainly didn't take away from the experience but actually made the existence of the world in the actual game make sense. What's the point of it in AoD? It's completely superfluous.

Why is it so shitty to want to be able to use the corrosive acid to burn through a lock in the 3D world or see your character kicking in a door or sneaking past a patrolling guard with you actually having control(with your stats affecting the distance at which you are seen, heard etc)?


Oh and can anyone actually explain what is so great about the combat in AoD beyond 'it's hard'? The mechanics are pretty much the same as in Fallout yet in the case of the latter it's LOLOLOL SUXORS, but in the former it's OMFG GREATEST COMBAT EVAHHHHH!!!!! The close in style of AoD actually lessens the tactical options compared to Fallout where you could at times get out of range of enemy attacks or put some cover between yourself and a foe. Maybe later you have more expansive combat areas or something but at the moment it's just standing next to a foe and hacking and hoping you whittle down his HP before he whittles down yours. As Excidium says:

Also, since we all have ranged weapons, why the hell are we fighting on melee range instead of showering them with missiles from the top of those buildings?

Yes I am aware that there was more of a focus on ranged combat in Fallout, but even so there was ample opportunity to get face to face in that game. It would be up to the devs of AoD to do the reverse and add more ranged options as well to open up the combat a bit.


I liked both Fallout and AoD combat at its basic level so fanboys chill the fuck out. I just don't understand why one is ridiculed while the other is praised.

I know VD is a bro and he's one of 'us' in a way and a cool dude that anyone would happily blow, but shit...it would be nice to be objective. I'll still buy the game and enjoy it(I've made up my mind since the last post after playing some more and I'm a sucker for a Roman inspired setting) but in AoD2 I hope that VD addresses the concerns and limitations and with the whole difficulty of getting a game created from scratch over and done with(and with all the trial and error it entailed over a protracted development cycle not being a factor); it should be a lot easier to work on a sequel and push it further.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I am a man of word:

This is beautiful.

 

[Commissar Draco]

This Merchant Ambush and IG recruitment death match? Use tactics....




























Stand in the door to side room so you will fight thugs 1:1... Done with Pretor 40 in swords/daggers and 40 in block half of the time, second one run behind the back of any of them, you will avoid gang rape and maybe even they will kill one another. BTW
What Charisma you need in IG second mission (assoult of Tower) to make one of your fratres being bait? 6 or 7? Was suprised IG grunt needed Charisma... So get voluntered and died gloriusly
Is sparing Bandit leader more profitable than slaying him for His steel gladius, Armor and 1000 jewgold? Couse if he will appear in some combat I can avoid once I say fuck the Honor.... Nice Men don't get laid and all that. And besides he is scum anyway so Nobleman don't have to keeo his word to pleb like him.

 

[Excidium]

Doesn't work for me because I'm a ranged thiaf, I suppose I can kite them forever with nets but it's such a hassle that I won't even bother, demo is over anyway. I'll take the lesson for the retail version, though. And probably focus crossbows instead of bows because its special ability is godly.

 

[sea]

I am a man of word:



A refreshing change from doing banal shit boring corporate videos.

EDIT: Urgh, hate seeing finished videos, there are so many thing I would change now, 15 minutes after making it...:p

You are the most beautiful man in the world and I love you. This needs to be up on the official site ASAP.

 

[made]

Played some more. The caravan ambush was the first challenging encounter I've come across because it actually required tactics and working together with your allies. Which again makes me wonder why there is no party in the first place. The technology to have AI-controlled henchmen is clearly already there, from here it should be only a small step to put them under player control. The combat would be infinitely more fun if you had a small squad at your disposal. But if these encounters with allies are the norm rather than an exception from now on that's good enough I guess. Anything is better than 1 vs X.

But the fight also made me painfully aware of a couple limitations or oversights. First, there's seemingly no way to mouse-over units or otherwise tell their status during combat or even whether they are enemies or allies. Secondly, the game apparently doesn't want me to use any other weapon than my trusty old hammer. I found this uber axe, but every time I get teleported to an encounter it swaps in my hammer and I have to spend AP to change weapons.

Other than that, huge incline from the boring encounters in Teron. Hope it stays like that from now on.

 

[eric__s]

Is sparing Bandit leader more profitable than slaying him for His steel gladius, Armor and 1000 jewgold? Couse if he will appear in some combat I can avoid once I say fuck the Honor.... Nice Men don't get laid and all that. And besides he is scum anyway so Nobleman don't have to keeo his word to pleb like him.

Your word of honor stat goes up and the game seems to imply that he owes you a lot and you'll meet again.

 

[circ]

Hard? No. It's idiotically random and unbalanced, that's the problem.

Oh, I see. You can't kill a few guys - the game is idiotically unbalanced. I guess if you could kill them, everything would have been fine.

There's a world of difference between combat being challenging, and combat being COMPLETELY based on blind luck, which, in this case, means 'don't start with swords because they are useless' and 'shit for brains dark alley thugs have friggin ninja reflexes'.

Right. Swords are useless. Like, totally.



For the record, the "shit for brain thugs" were sent to kill the guy you were accompanying and are, unlike you, experienced fighters. They also gave you a chance to walk away.

Swords aren't useless by any means, but 90% (yes 90% again) of the time, you can dick it out with a low damage but also low AP use dagger. Dagger also seems to be the only weapon, not counting axes, with a special skill (flurry). Flurry's utterly useless vs armor unless you do crits all the time and just get one stat below 2. Which isn't that likely.

 

[Darth Roxor]

And environmental interaction? Roxor and commie, did you seriously enjoy going through all the random barrels and boxes in Neverwinter Nights, hunting down those oh-so-logical gems and gold coins, left lying around? Are you the sort of person who goes through every single house in every village and town in BG1&2 to loot them because their OCD doesn't allow otherwise? Fuck me.

Yes, I sure as fuck enjoy going through barrels in NWN, and it says a lot that you are raising NWN as some sort of a pinnacle for RPG design here.

Because shit like figuring out to use holy water on a cursed idol in Wizardry 8 cemetery, blowing up the radscorpion cave in Fallout, clicking on walls in Might&Magic to check for secret doors, actual forging process in Gothic, evading puzzle-traps and going through wordlocks in Betrayal at Krondor are all shit and boring activities for a bunch of fags with OCD that can't appreciate the emotional engagement of dialogue options, right? HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY LARPS????

RPG Codex Social, here we go.

 

[Ermm]

Actually, someone should really make a fake trailer out of this.

I swear, the only reason I'm not stopping my work to do a quick trailer like this NOW is because my workstation is a filthy mac, so I can't play the game & capture some footage. Wait for it this weekend.

I am a man of word:



A refreshing change from doing banal shit boring corporate videos.

EDIT: Urgh, hate seeing finished videos, there are so many thing I would change now, 15 minutes after making it...:p

Good job, man. I am emotionally engaged now.

 

[Darth Roxor]

so I've gone with a full retard combatfag raising nothing but combat stats, and suddenly the combat ain't no problem. Yet I can't imagine the whole game being too fun with 4 int/charisma, especially since the combat itself is kind of boring and revolves around 'let's switch between three different attack modes to waste all AP I have'. Middle ground, what's dat





at least the music is cool, tho.

 

[Pelvis Knot]

I'm genuinely surprised myself.

It seems you just cut out to much fluff. Leaving the filler out is great, but in doing so you overexposed the mechanical aspects of the game, which now look to straightforward and simple. Most rpgs when thoroughly analyzed will be exposed as relatively simple games. AoD is probably more complex than any part of the holy trinity, but the mechanics are not obfuscated enough. Basically you should add more interactive but mechanically pointless stuff.

The combat takes some time to understand correctly, at first I died a lot (any char), while yesterday as an assassin I finished storming the Imperial guards compound with 30/35 hp, both the guild-master and and that other guy alive, the final fight felt too easy.
It is true this happened mostly because I knew in what order to tackle the quests due to previous playthroughs. I believe the main problem with combat is how as little as 5 skill points can make the difference between getting horribly raped and winning almost with ease.

I like playing the demo, finished it with 3 characters already, will try some more.

 

[Infinitron]

Actually, someone should really make a fake trailer out of this.

I swear, the only reason I'm not stopping my work to do a quick trailer like this NOW is because my workstation is a filthy mac, so I can't play the game & capture some footage. Wait for it this weekend.

I am a man of word:



A refreshing change from doing banal shit boring corporate videos.

EDIT: Urgh, hate seeing finished videos, there are so many thing I would change now, 15 minutes after making it...:p

This is the new shit.

 

[Pelvis Knot]

Then I stabbed him in the (unarmored) head with my gladius, over 90% hit chance, leaving him just lightly wounded. Didn't even bother trying to fight the other guy when his friend can stand almost unscathed after taking a sword to the face.

This is easily explained - you aimed for the face, but didn't put the sword through his nose. You simply glanced his right cheek, leaving a deep scar, doing 5 damage. I thought this way of thinking was the basis for playing any game with hit points.

 

[JarlFrank]

So, I found the game to be pretty good overall, but I have to agree with Roxor in some aspects, especially in that the combat isn't really that good. Yeah, okay, so it's turn based, and it's fairly complex, and it's a solid base system - that would be really good if you could control a party. This is my main gripe with AoD's combat. The encounters would be far better (more tactical and more fun) if you could control companions in combat. I know you decided against it because you wanted a pure single character RPG, Vince, but I feel it's a missed opportunity that could have vastly improved a combat system that is merely "okay" for a single character.

And yeah I can understand Roxor's criticism of too little environment interaction, but personally, I do enjoy the text adventures. But that doesn't mean it's everyone's cup of tea and obviously Roxor and commie would have preferred a more free-form way of using skills instead of having everything mainly resolved through dialogue/text options.

Also, that trailer is super fucking awesome, felipepepe. It should be made official.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yeah. Any criticism is answered with "you're trolling" or "baaw popamole", let us give up and just join the circle jerk.

Any?

You are the most beautiful man in the world and I love you. This needs to be up on the official site ASAP.

Posted. It's glorious!

The combat takes some time to understand correctly ...

That's what I've been trying to tell people.

 

[Erebus]

Would it actually be reasonable to try the game with a PC whose stats and skills are all average ? Or is refusing to specialize a short path to failure ?

 

[felipepepe]

You are the most beautiful man in the world and I love you. This needs to be up on the official site ASAP.

Posted. It's glorious!

Just be careful to mark as fan-made or something, since I used 2 copyrighted songs on it.

Also, bug report: To get lot's of different combat scenes fast, I started a drifter (since he get's lots of equips) and kept chaging armor & attacking random people. Every time I start combat and attack a non-hostile person, I get a turn, attack him, and even if he take A LOT of damage, the combat ends without he doing anything, only if I start combat and attack again he will turn hostile.

EDIT: And killing beggars and nobles with a mercenary is very easy. Seeing the toga-wearing spoiled girl failing do even deal damage gave me a lot of insight in why my toga-wearing spoiled merchant can't kill armed guards.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Would it actually be reasonable to try the game with a PC whose stats and skills are all average ? Or is refusing to specialize a short path to failure ?

You can beat all fights with avg stats. Some people even go with low STR and CON. As for the skills, you need to focus on your main skills at first, but after a few quests you can start developing secondary skills.

 

[anus_pounder]

Lots of butthurt and rage on both sides. I would ask everyone to calm the fuck down, but this is the RPGCodex. Please continue.

EDIT : Don't forget to join CDS chat for some extra raging as well. I knew AoD would provide entertainment on some level, it didn't disappoint.

 

[Hellraiser]

I made a loremaster longbowman, with something like 4 STR, 4 CON, 8 DEX, 10 PE, 8 INT and 4 CHA. Skill points went into bows and dodge first, later I leveled up lore, persuasion and daggers. Finishing the demo via the smelting machine activation was easy and he could handle himself in most combat encounters around Teron.

He utterly raped the bandits, although abusing the fact that if he attacks from maximum range not all of the bandits engage you in combat. Aimed shot (legs or head depending on if they are crippled or not) and a step back every turn for the melee bandits. For their bowmen I just used headshots, no point in crippling them. Simple but effective and oh so satisfying.

He obliterated the caravan in the IG quest with no problems whatsoever. His high dodge, while wearing BROmaster clothes, allowed him to easily survive the IG recruitment deathmatch after killing the caravan guards. Now the tower quest was totally impossible to complete with him, going up top meant he got raped by the two bowmen up there even before his turn started. Obviously that option is for a PC that has a decent shield and a ton of points in block. Not to mention heavy armor. Staying outside and head-shotting the two guards outside may have been the best choice, if not for the dumb teleport into melee range. If my PC is a bowman, and the archers up top are distracted by the meatshields storming the tower, he shouldn't walk right next to the soldiers. There should at the very least be an option to not charge right next to them.

But overall I guess the second IG quest is not meant to be done early. In the full game you would no doubt just be able to go elsewhere, grab some skillpoints and new gear and then finish it more easily. It's kind of like killing the raiders in the camp in Fallout when you are barely level 3 after vault 15 and the shady sands quests. All you have is a leather jacket and a hunting rifle, smg or shotgun. Yeah it is possible to kill them all easily at that point but only if you have 10 PE, 8+ AG, tagged small guns into which you dumped all your points and the hunting rifle. You can always skip the camp and come back later when you are better skilled and equipped for the task with a different character build.

 

[circ]

Would it actually be reasonable to try the game with a PC whose stats and skills are all average ? Or is refusing to specialize a short path to failure ?

You can beat all fights with avg stats. Some people even go with low STR and CON. As for the skills, you need to focus on your main skills at first, but after a few quests you can start developing secondary skills.

Ok. Trying to do thief chick ambush near blacksmith. Doing a little better after I killed the spies, actually all 3 after some reloadans. Str 6 dex 8 con 6 per 8 int 7 chr 5, got sword to 45, crit 45 some of that from assassin trainer, block 47. Best helmet available I think, the 6 dr -6 to skills, the heavy? iron armor from blacksmith, iron gladius. Keep dying. Tried various tactics - went for a spot where I only have to fight 2, get hit with AOO's but still decent hp left. Main problem is axe guy who half the time cleaves my shield in half. YEAH YOU BETTA BELIEVE THAT'S A RELOAD. Going straight for axe guy seems to be more advantageous, but can essentially only hurt him with aim head. Would bring nets or bolas if I wasn't so dependant on a shield.

Also, no additional crafting materials buyable in demo? Those bitches would be toast with that imperial armor.
And also, askin assassin guild for jobs closes down IG recruitment? Or how does that work?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Doing a little better after I killed the spies, actually all 3 after some reloadans.

Also, no additional crafting materials buyable in demo?

We removed it a few days before the release since people were going nuts with crafting. We'll tweak it in a patch.

And also, askin assassin guild for jobs closes down IG recruitment? Or how does that work?

You can join one House and one guild.

 

[Infinitron]

Roleplaying challenge:
Try to play AoD as a stereotypical Bioware character.

 

[GarfunkeL]

And environmental interaction? Roxor and commie, did you seriously enjoy going through all the random barrels and boxes in Neverwinter Nights, hunting down those oh-so-logical gems and gold coins, left lying around? Are you the sort of person who goes through every single house in every village and town in BG1&2 to loot them because their OCD doesn't allow otherwise? Fuck me.

Nice strawman with the barrels...Who was asking for this?

Yes, I sure as fuck enjoy going through barrels in NWN, and it says a lot that you are raising NWN as some sort of a pinnacle for RPG design here.

Oh, I should have compared a isometric TB RPG to a first-person RT RPG like Gothic? Shame on me for not realizing that. Fallout had exactly one environmental interaction in the whole game, the radscorpion cave unless you want to count the bomb as a second one. Plus the whole game was about exploration. Teron definitely isn't. And again, in 99% of CRPGS, environmental interaction means looting barrels and houses. The fucking puzzle-traps in BaK were a ridiculous gimmick that I hope never resurface in any other game. All the other stuff you gave examples of could be integrated into the text adventures - that there aren't suitable examples in the demo is a valid complaint.