Titan Quest Anniversary Edition

[felipepepe]

felipepepe : is this expression, for the most part, true ? : Grim Dawn > Path of Exile > Titan Quest

I'd say yes. Grim Dawn is really good at gameplay, but it sucks where Titan Quest excels: the setting & art. GD is kinda ugly and has very boring enemies & areas. :/

Path of Exile is a "love it or hate it" affair.. the campaign is nothing special, what makes or breaks the game is how you feel about its unique skill system. I like the concept of a classless system, but I think it's too bloated... too many dull choices between stuff that really matters, making some level ups feel useless.

I went back to PoE this week and damn, I need to revise this statement.

My impressions before came from playing back in 2015, when the Awakening expansion had came out. At that time the game had only 4 Acts, and none of them are really interesting.

Well, since then they released several expansions, added A SHIT TON of new systems and the story is now up to 10 Acts! Moreover, they are WAAAAY better. There's a real cool part in Act 5 where you travel across a Roman-like city, all made of marble and with a heavy religious motif - crusaders, paladins, priests, huge statues, stained glass, etc. Then you kill their god. Demons invade and you cross the city again - but now everything is burning, destroyed or corrupted. Really awesome stuff.

They also added stuff like prestige classes. Once you finish a super-hard & fun labyrinth without dying, you can select a prestige class and unlock a small skill tree of cool skills. This solves what I felt was a lack of "high level" character building - before you would just spent skills on that huge tree until you ran out.

On the other hand, while their monetization model isn't "pay to win", it's clearly focused on the die-hard "whales". Everything is ridiculously expensive, and they now even added loot boxes... I never had to buy anything, but still... I kind prefer it was a traditional system, selling the game and then the expansions.

Anyway, I'd now definitely say Path of Exile > Gim Dawn > Titan Quest.

There's a new expansion coming out next week, I'd suggest those curious about the game to wait until then and give it a try.

 

[T. Reich]

Veteran PoE player here - with a warning: PoE is VERY much a feature-bloated game, and it usually throws you in with little-to-no preparation. There's a crazy multitude of character-building options (both in terms of skills used, passive stat buffs and specialisations, and gear choices) as well as ways to progress ingame, especially once you complete the story mode and go into the actual "endgame", which doesn't involve story mode at all and is pretty much a game unto itself.

I played TQ last year for the first time, and it felt like a kindergarden-grade very straightforward stuff compared to PoE. I have plans to play GD, but haven't got around to it yet.

 

[Cael]

Veteran PoE player here - with a warning: PoE is VERY much a feature-bloated game, and it usually throws you in with little-to-no preparation. There's a crazy multitude of character-building options (both in terms of skills used, passive stat buffs and specialisations, and gear choices) as well as ways to progress ingame, especially once you complete the story mode and go into the actual "endgame", which doesn't involve story mode at all and is pretty much a game unto itself.

I played TQ last year for the first time, and it felt like a kindergarden-grade very straightforward stuff compared to PoE. I have plans to play GD, but haven't got around to it yet.

TQ is how many years old now? That is kinda like saying Diablo is kindy stuff compared to Diablo 2, isn't it? TQ is Diablo 2 era stuff.

 

[Serus]

Veteran PoE player here - with a warning: PoE is VERY much a feature-bloated game, and it usually throws you in with little-to-no preparation. There's a crazy multitude of character-building options (both in terms of skills used, passive stat buffs and specialisations, and gear choices) as well as ways to progress ingame, especially once you complete the story mode and go into the actual "endgame", which doesn't involve story mode at all and is pretty much a game unto itself.

I played TQ last year for the first time, and it felt like a kindergarden-grade very straightforward stuff compared to PoE. I have plans to play GD, but haven't got around to it yet.

TQ is how many years old now? That is kinda like saying Diablo is kindy stuff compared to Diablo 2, isn't it? TQ is Diablo 2 era stuff.

That has nothing to do with it. Grim Dawn is not much more complex than TQ, all the basic systems are the same except the constellations (i think) and it's a game from the same time as PoE, if not for the different selling method they would be in direct competition.
No, PoE has a lot more stuff because it had so many add-ons over the years, not because it's newer. TQ had one (well, techically two with Ragnarok).

 

[Serus]

felipepepe : is this expression, for the most part, true ? : Grim Dawn > Path of Exile > Titan Quest

I'd say yes. Grim Dawn is really good at gameplay, but it sucks where Titan Quest excels: the setting & art. GD is kinda ugly and has very boring enemies & areas. :/

Path of Exile is a "love it or hate it" affair.. the campaign is nothing special, what makes or breaks the game is how you feel about its unique skill system. I like the concept of a classless system, but I think it's too bloated... too many dull choices between stuff that really matters, making some level ups feel useless.

I went back to PoE this week and damn, I need to revise this statement.

My impressions before came from playing back in 2015, when the Awakening expansion had came out. At that time the game had only 4 Acts, and none of them are really interesting.

Well, since then they released several expansions, added A SHIT TON of new systems and the story is now up to 10 Acts! Moreover, they are WAAAAY better. There's a real cool part in Act 5 where you travel across a Roman-like city, all made of marble and with a heavy religious motif - crusaders, paladins, priests, huge statues, stained glass, etc. Then you kill their god. Demons invade and you cross the city again - but now everything is burning, destroyed or corrupted. Really awesome stuff.

They also added stuff like prestige classes. Once you finish a super-hard & fun labyrinth without dying, you can select a prestige class and unlock a small skill tree of cool skills. This solves what I felt was a lack of "high level" character building - before you would just spent skills on that huge tree until you ran out.

On the other hand, while their monetization model isn't "pay to win", it's clearly focused on the die-hard "whales". Everything is ridiculously expensive, and they now even added loot boxes... I never had to buy anything, but still... I kind prefer it was a traditional system, selling the game and then the expansions.

Anyway, I'd now definitely say Path of Exile > Gim Dawn > Titan Quest.

There's a new expansion coming out next week, I'd suggest those curious about the game to wait until then and give it a try.

What do you mean by "loot boxes"? Like some boxes with actual (randomized) loot ? That doesn't sound good - it seems to be breach in the rule of selling only cosmetics/account features but no in-game (non-cosmetic) stuff. When I played PoE (granted last time i played was... ~2 (?) years ago, similar as You probably, the forth act was a new thing back then) not such thing existed. You made me worry.

A propos: Do You play it at all nowadays ?

 

[Cael]

That has nothing to do with it. Grim Dawn is not much more complex than TQ, all the basic systems are the same except the constellations (i think) and it's a game from the same time as PoE, if not for the different selling method they would be in direct competition.
No, PoE has a lot more stuff because it had so many add-ons over the years, not because it's newer. TQ had one (well, techically two with Ragnarok).

I actually liked TQ because of the setting more than anything else. It is the same reason I liked Age of Mythology. The whole ancient world myth and legends thing doesn't seem to happen all too often. Plus, there are times when mindless blowupology is a lot of fun.

 

[T. Reich]

Serus

"Loot boxes" in PoE have nothing to do with ingame loot, or functional ingame features.
They offer access to a limited selection of various cosmetics that are exclusive to said "loot box". The results of opening such an MTX box are obviously randomised (the odds of getting each MTX from such box are always posted on the official website).
These "loot boxes" are usually time-limited, and the MTX associated with them usually cannot be gotten anywhere else.

That said, they still draw the limited ire of the PoE community because they are mildly addicting (as pretty much any gambling mechanism), and are also annoying because they feature "sets" of MTX, so if you want to get the full set, you're forced to buy many of those "loot boxes" to get it, but are not guaranteed that by any means. In the end you also end up with multiple copies of the same cosmetics, and also with cosmetics that you have no interest in whatsoever.

Anyways, these "loot boxes" are only a small side promotion of limited offers, alongside the usual shop with the wide variety of the more usual cosmetics.

 

[Anomander Rake]

I won't buy Grim dawn until all the expansions are out and there will be no more patches.

On the other hand, is Titan quest ragnarok worth it? I'm planning to buy it on GOG but I don't even know if I'm going to miss the multiplayer aspect of it if I do (does it have multiplayer?). Needs suggestions. The amount of support they are putting into is ridicolous and honestly I'm so tempted to buy it..

 

[Cael]

TQ has MP. Better MP than Diablo, actually, as the different masteries synergise better on two different toons.

 

[felipepepe]

On the other hand, is Titan quest ragnarok worth it? I'm planning to buy it on GOG but I don't even know if I'm going to miss the multiplayer aspect of it if I do (does it have multiplayer?). Needs suggestions. The amount of support they are putting into is ridicolous and honestly I'm so tempted to buy it..

Ragnarok is just more of the same. In fact, I'd say it worst than the Immortal Throne expansion, as enemies are VERY repetitive and bosses are a cake walk. And they didn't fix old issues, like the tiny player stash or the lack of a decent loot filter.

The only reason to buy it is if you're a die-hard TQ fan and want the new Mastery & 10-hours of new maps.

 

[Cael]

The biggest problem of IT was the HP and damage bloat. Mobs went from plinking away at you to 1-shot kill, something that you won't see until well into the second half of the next difficulty up. Does Ragnarok have the same thing, because if it does, it is just going to be peak frustration.

 

[Serus]

Serus

"Loot boxes" in PoE have nothing to do with ingame loot, or functional ingame features.
They offer access to a limited selection of various cosmetics that are exclusive to said "loot box". The results of opening such an MTX box are obviously randomised (the odds of getting each MTX from such box are always posted on the official website).
These "loot boxes" are usually time-limited, and the MTX associated with them usually cannot be gotten anywhere else.

That said, they still draw the limited ire of the PoE community because they are mildly addicting (as pretty much any gambling mechanism), and are also annoying because they feature "sets" of MTX, so if you want to get the full set, you're forced to buy many of those "loot boxes" to get it, but are not guaranteed that by any means. In the end you also end up with multiple copies of the same cosmetics, and also with cosmetics that you have no interest in whatsoever.

Anyways, these "loot boxes" are only a small side promotion of limited offers, alongside the usual shop with the wide variety of the more usual cosmetics.

I never bought a single cosmetic addition in PoE, was never interested in them. The only thing i did buy was some additional place in the stash. I had no idea how cosmetic buying worked even back then when i played so thanks for the info.
Good to hear that's still only about cosmetics, no worry then they are breaking from the original selling model. I might want to return for some more PoE one day, especially after felipepepe wrote so highly about new content.

 

[Serus]

On the other hand, is Titan quest ragnarok worth it? I'm planning to buy it on GOG but I don't even know if I'm going to miss the multiplayer aspect of it if I do (does it have multiplayer?). Needs suggestions. The amount of support they are putting into is ridicolous and honestly I'm so tempted to buy it..

Ragnarok is just more of the same. In fact, I'd say it worst than the Immortal Throne expansion, as enemies are VERY repetitive and bosses are a cake walk. And they didn't fix old issues, like the tiny player stash or the lack of a decent loot filter.

The only reason to buy it is if you're a die-hard TQ fan and want the new Mastery & 10-hours of new maps.

A new mastery actually sounds like a good addition assuming it works and is well made even if the new act is meh. The bad part about Ragnarok (or to be precise this whole new edition) is that not all popular mods were ported to it. My favourite Underlord wasn't (neither was the one built with Underlord as base).

 

[deama]

I played through Titan quest recently (anniversary edition) and went up to IT, the part where you enter the underworld. Sadly I gave up then cause the enemies just started to get ridiculous, they started 1/2-shotting me, and I cheated a bit and gave myself extra stats per level lol.

 

[felipepepe]

The biggest problem of IT was the HP and damage bloat. Mobs went from plinking away at you to 1-shot kill, something that you won't see until well into the second half of the next difficulty up. Does Ragnarok have the same thing, because if it does, it is just going to be peak frustration.

There's nothing that dangerous in Ragnarok. In fact, it's too damn easy. If you got through Immortal Throne, nothing will challenge you in Ragnarok - not even the end boss.

The only exception were a bunch of archers in the last level that came in large numbers and did A LOT of damage, but that's probably because my Pierce resistance was really low.

 

[Serus]

I played through Titan quest recently (anniversary edition) and went up to IT, the part where you enter the underworld. Sadly I gave up then cause the enemies just started to get ridiculous, they started 1/2-shotting me, and I cheated a bit and gave myself extra stats per level lol.

In original version of TQ if you played with self-found items only then it was quite difficult in IT part with some type of builds. Especially melee builds(*) can be pain in the ass to get past through IT on normal from what i remember. It worked like that in original edition so it seems they haven't changed much.

*Actually it works like that in most D2-clones I think. Melee is usually the most item-dependant for some reason.

 

[Cael]

I played through Titan quest recently (anniversary edition) and went up to IT, the part where you enter the underworld. Sadly I gave up then cause the enemies just started to get ridiculous, they started 1/2-shotting me, and I cheated a bit and gave myself extra stats per level lol.

In original version of TQ if you played with self-found items only then it was quite difficult in IT part with some type of builds. Especially melee builds can be pain in the ass to get past through IT on normal from what i remember. It worked like that in original edition so it seems they haven't changed much.

I found it to be the opposite, actually. My Conqueror (War/Def) went through Hades' Palace like a scythe. My Oracle (Storm/Necro) was getting killed left and right. It was the gigantes (the one with the long range wave attack) that usually does me in, as there is no place to run in the narrow corridors. With the Conqueror, I just shield charge my way through and beat them to death. The Oracle get caught in the wave and get DoT to death.

 

[T. Reich]

*Actually it works like that in most D2-clones I think. Melee is usually the most item-dependant for some reason.

Because it, well, is.
As a spellcaster, you depend on your skills to do the work for you, hence all you gear is basically a support for your skills. Extra manual player skillz are usually required to make it gud, with all the support skills and lower margin of error due to your character's squishiness.
As a ranged character, you depend on dishing out damage at range and avoiding it in melee. Hence, armor is of secondary importance. Some manual player skillz are required to avoid melee.
As a melee, you need to be able to both deal and tank damage of all sorts. Usually the "dumbest" playstyle, whereas you only need to manage your gear and an occasionall prebuff, and then you usually throw yourself at the enemies, and it's your stats vs their stats, and no tactical mumbo-jumbo is required.

It's the inherent problem of the genre - how do you belence these varying gamestyles so that they feel "fair" relative to effort invested?

 

[felipepepe]

Why would you? Just present them properly - say that a Barbarian is good for beginners and that Mages are "expert classes".

I.e., the Scion in PoE is an advanced class, that only unlocks after you beat the first story because you need to know how the system works to use her well.

 

[T. Reich]

That approach is pretty damn flawed, a sign of truly poor game design.

Firstly, that implies more than one playthrough is required.
Secondly, that implies that beginners may get stuck with a gameplay style that they do not find fun for whatever reason.
Thirdly, it stigmatises melee as a dull, basic choice, even though it might not be true at all.
Finally, it obfuscates the possible situation where melee may turn out to ultimately be the hardest class to play of all! Not just because of the poorer combat mechaics being available to it, but also of the higher reliance on gear (and therefore on loot RNG), and ultimately because of possibly being balanced to be overall weaker than other gamestyles (simply due to it being placed as low on a "higher gameplay complexity = more raw power" curve).

 

[felipepepe]

Firstly, that implies more than one playthrough is required.

Not REQUIRED, but surely recommended. The game has 7 classes, leagues, multiple builds, etc - it was made to be replayed.

Secondly, that implies that beginners may get stuck with a gameplay style that they do not find fun for whatever reason.

Can happen with anyone. Some people love playing Clerics in Dark Souls, but I think it's a bit too boring. If your playstyles are truly diverse, then some will be a misfit for some people.

Thirdly, it stigmatises melee as a dull, basic choice, even though it might not be true at all.

It's not about Melee vs Mage, is about playstyle complexity - how much you need to micromanage/min-max. For example, IMHO the Scion is harder to play properly than the Witch, even if you go melee.

Finally, it obfuscates the possible situation where melee may turn out to ultimately be the hardest class to play of all! Not just because of the poorer combat mechaics being available to it, but also of the higher reliance on gear (and therefore on loot RNG), and ultimately because of possibly being balanced to be overall weaker than other gamestyles (simply due to it being placed as low on a "higher gameplay complexity = more raw power" curve).

Again, is not Melee vs Caster, it's about complexity/difficulty. I think the best way to be fair with players is to be upfront. Give them the freedom to do anything, but also add a helping hand to newcomers. Stuff like this:

So that someone trying to play this characters knows that it's difficult and requires more effort, but there are easier options if they so desire.

Similarly, anyone starting Dark Souls with a Deprived know they got a naked guy with a club instead of the heavily armored knight.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

is the new expansion ragnarok any good?
I want codexian opinions before I spend my jewgold.

 

[T. Reich]

Firstly, that implies more than one playthrough is required.

Not REQUIRED, but surely recommended. The game has 7 classes, leagues, multiple builds, etc - it was made to be replayed.

Secondly, that implies that beginners may get stuck with a gameplay style that they do not find fun for whatever reason.

Can happen with anyone. Some people love playing Clerics in Dark Souls, but I think it's a bit too boring. If your playstyles are truly diverse, then some will be a misfit for some people.

Thirdly, it stigmatises melee as a dull, basic choice, even though it might not be true at all.

It's not about Melee vs Mage, is about playstyle complexity - how much you need to micromanage/min-max. For example, IMHO the Scion is harder to play properly than the Witch, even if you go melee.

Finally, it obfuscates the possible situation where melee may turn out to ultimately be the hardest class to play of all! Not just because of the poorer combat mechaics being available to it, but also of the higher reliance on gear (and therefore on loot RNG), and ultimately because of possibly being balanced to be overall weaker than other gamestyles (simply due to it being placed as low on a "higher gameplay complexity = more raw power" curve).

Again, is not Melee vs Caster, it's about complexity/difficulty. I think the best way to be fair with players is to be upfront. Give them the freedom to do anything, but also add a helping hand to newcomers. Stuff like this:

So that someone trying to play this characters knows that it's difficult and requires more effort, but there are easier options if they so desire.

Similarly, anyone starting Dark Souls with a Deprived know they got a naked guy with a club instead of the heavily armored knight.

My statements had nothing to do with PoE whatsoever, but with with the melee/ranged/mage approaches in ARPGs in general.

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[Abu Antar]

It's real:
https://www.thqnordic.com/article/titan-quest-coming-all-current-gen-console-platforms-2018

Ragnarok not included.