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Information Tom Hall and Brenda Brathwaite Kickstart Turn-based Oldschool CRPG

Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
9,180
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
Eh, I think this could result in a fun game still. I am waiting for more information before deciding if I should pledge or not, but I don't hold not having that worked up against them. they gave me more to go on than Obsidian did at first, I think. Speaking of which, they have one big trump over Obsidian still. Sure, they may have made horrible facebook games with graphics that make your eyes bleed. But at least they didn't make Alpha Protocol.:M

Edit: I am hoping the two games deal is actually having 2 scenarios for the same engine/rules.
 

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
When banks give loans backed by mortgages it is usually only for the value of what you are putting up.

1. If your house is worth 250k and you still owe 150k you can probably get a loan of 100k. If you want the bank to give you a loan that is larger than what you are willing to put as collateral you have to convince the bank that the loan you receive has a really really good chance of paying them back.

2. Banks will gladly give you loans backed up by something of value that is greater or equal in value to the loan since there is almost no way they can lose money. Not because they feel that you believe in it more and will try harder.

3. Edit: Publishers have more conditions and control than regular loans because they are risking more. If it fails the publisher is out money not the developer. The publisher takes on more risks so they need more things to compensate them for the risk involved. Usually owning IP is one of them since even if a game loses money there is a chance they may be able to get some of the losses mitigated by the value of the IP. It's hardly worse than loan sharks. The fact is that if someone is going to risk losing their own money (banks, publishers, investors) then they are going to need some kind of return that is equal to the risk if they are going to let you use their money.

4. Would you expect your plumber to own your toilet after you pay him to install it? So why would a publisher expect a developer to own a game when the publisher pays for it to be made?

1. Yes, but a good chance is biased and based on personal preference or perception rather than on something solid. This type of loan is common for buying the mortgage and it does not make sense in this situation.

During typical bubble this situation happens and no one seems to really care as all loans are technically higher than what you put as collateral. Simple example: I am buying a house that is worth 100k, and I take 80k loan (I have 20k) from a bank to buy it. When crisis hits my loan is 77K, but the value of the house becomes 60K. If I am unable to pay back my loan the bank sells it for 60K, but I still up ending owning the bank 17K. In USA (some states), the mortgage owner is protected from repaying the rest of the loan, there the bank takes only the house back and I don't own a penny more.

2. That's a condition only for consumer loans that also comes with incredibly high interest rate. Business loans usually don't come with neither of those. If your LTD company takes a loan that the owner guarantees with his personal house and the amount that will not be covered by selling your house as a collateral... What other proof do you need that the idea is good? It works as a psychological test and a mild guarantee. It's not about trying hard, it's about putting your money where your mouth is.

3. Publishers don't give out loans. It's a master - slave relationship. They own the project, the IP and most if not all the profit. While if you take a loan from the bank you become free once you repay it - that is a very important difference. You can do your own projects for the money you have earned. Publisher's structure their contracts in such way, that developers can never become free or even get their share of profits. I have never heard that any developer earned so much to become fully independent, but I have seen plenty of businesses become free from obligations after they have repaid the loan. You also have no idea what a loan shark is... A loan shark is someone who asks an outrageous interest for a loan that he gives. The bank also would own the IP in the case of bankruptcy, but not in the case of success.

Equal return for risk? Risk is an immaterial thing based on personal preference and perception of surrounding world. If you can't measure it, how can you claim that is equal or lower? Some compensation is not equal to everything, like all the profit, the IP and etc.

That's not how other businesses work. I know that writers get a flat amount, but they typically get much than what it cost them to produce a book or a novel. You don't hear about developers becoming rich for making a "hit" game, but you can hear them becoming broke for producing a "hit" game.

4. You probably come from Sweden so it would be hard for you to understand the difference between skilled labor and manual labor, but bare with me. Skilled labor in most if not all instances earns more money, because the skilled part comes at a personal expense, like a bigger investment in your knowledge. Such as schooling years, the quality of college and etc.
If your qualified labor is paid like unskilled labor it's actually an anomaly. Therefore developers should be viewed as writers and musicians rather than plumbers or cleaners.
 

kaizoku

Arcane
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
4,129
I don't think the 2 games part is so crazy as people make it out to be. Most likely both will be using the same system, so basically instead of 1 bigger game you get 2 separate stories. The games will be shorter, yes... But that's not necessarily bad, if the content is high quality - also the interaction between the two could potentially make replaying more fun.


Now if they'd just define what kind of game it will be. Though it's Oldschool so probably means it's totally awesome.
Agreed.
Fargo asked for 900k and Obsidian asked for 1.1 M.
But we know those games would pretty much suck or be too short.

Maybe they went with the 2 games pitch because they have 2 different ideas
Nevermind, they don't have any idea. Maybe it's just to increase the chance that a game won't suck.



Anyway, the problem was they pulled a parody out of their asses and called it a KS.
Yeah, they were trying to make it funny, but instead it went full retard.

Nonetheless, they still put out about the same information as the other hyped KS:
first-person
fantasy/sci-fi RPG
custom party of 4 characters
Turn-based combat
multiple races and professions
skill system
Recruitable Characters
Loot castles, caverns and dungeons and defeat hordes of creatures <- suspicious of popping moles
At least five known NPC races
Solve hundreds of quests <- hundreds of fedex?
Multiple Endings

(Stretch Goal) alignment, age, rank and randomly-rolled temperament
(Stretch Goal) Multiple Beginnings
(Stretch Goal) NPC Enemies <- whatever this means
(Stretch Goal) Super Hardcore Mode <- like PE stretch goal

($1.9M Stretch Goal) Two games - the endings of each game provide exclusive NEW game beginnings in the other! Import your crew from Tom's game into Brenda's and vice versa. The ending you create affects not only your new game beginning (if you choose it)
Wait, probably even more info than most KS.

The initial reaction may be a bit undeserved.
But yeah, the pitch is dumb fucked, and they don't have a fucking clue on what the game will be about.




I can't stand FP games, so I doubt I'll pledge to this, even if by the end of the campaign the game looks like it will be ashshome.
However I'm still curious on how the drama will unfold.
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

Self-Ejected
Developer
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
6,547
Location
Idiocracy
I'm with the sceptics. No work to show, no real information, not even a title. Just "give us 1.000.000$ and we will start thinking about making a game for you. It's gonna be awesum!"

Also, what's this shit about making two games? That's one of the dumbest ideas in a long time. It's like applying for a job and saying if the payment is good, you're even gonna do two :lol:

Another thing I noticed is that in the end these kickstarters will succeed anyway which happen to have the famouse developur. So I can stay on the sidelines peacefully and give my money to smaller projects.

I don't think they're trying to fuck anyone. I mean in what way would Tom Hall and Brenda Bradthwiat benefit from shattering the reputations they've been cultivating for the past handful of decades for one fast million?

But I also don't want to buy in because I don't know if it's something I actually want to play! I like some sorts of old school RPGs, I don't like other sorts. What kind of old school rpg is it? Is there a general idea behind it that makes it stand out? Are they going to make an off-brand Wizardry and that's it?

I want to at least see a basic game engine, showing the main game play features. No demo, no donation.
 

LittleJoe

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
1,780
You see, I'm not sure I want another old school RPG like Wizardry or RoA.
I'd prefer a new school RPG like Fallout 1 or PST.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
So, basically a futuristic sci-fi blobber? Has that been done before? Could be interesting. Then again it doesn't actually say it's a blobber. But I still think this is a bullshit kickstarter.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,494
we [...] have a Linux Stretch Goal
Those poor Linux suckers. They're so desperate they'll pay for anything¹!

¹For their free operating system.
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,458
2261936-kickstarterpennyarcade.jpg
 

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,600
It's called Train and is about the Holocaust. There's a bit about it here: http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/06/24/can-you-make-a-board-game-about-the-holocaust-meet-train/

The typewriter [a machine once used by the SS which is part of the game] was probably the most significant piece to add to the game. The rules that people followed, the Nazi rules, were horrible rules. They were the system behind the travesty. Selecting the typewriter seemed simultaneously right and horrible. I still am uncomfortable with it. Since the rules of a game are the game, however, I didn’t feel it could be done authentically any other way.
I understand that someone who played the game compared it to “Halo”?
We’ve learned that game = fun. So, yes, we have a narrow definition for it, but I believe that definition is expanding. As an artist working in this medium, I want it to expand. Imagine if someone said all books or movies or paintings had to be fun?
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
3,524
Although I think they had nowhere to go but up, I've never been happy with fantasy sci-fi blends. They usually put even less work into explaining themselves or building an internal logic than scifi or fantasy alone. It also sounds like it's written for pre-defined main characters, which would be a big no
 

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