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Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #24: Tides, Combat Systems and Q&A

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Tags: Colin McComb; InXile Entertainment; Kevin Saunders; Torment: Tides of Numenera

This month's Torment: Tides of Numenera Kickstarter update is long, comprehensive and informative, as usual. I can't copy the entire thing, but I'll quote the interesting parts...as usual.

The first part of the update offers a detailed look at the game's Tides system. After listing the meanings of each one of the Tides, the update explains how they'll actually work in-game:

In the game, the Tides are a background force. Your actions, especially your actions in dialogue, will often increase one or two Tides, moving your character toward dominance in those Tides. Then your dominant Tides determine the Legacy you are building for yourself. The Tides are increased when you have a real choice. For example, although identifying numenera is a Blue thing to do, there's no gameplay reason for players not to do it, so that sort of common action wouldn't increase the Tide. But if identifying a particular device required the PC to complete a quest or spend XP, then that could conceivably increase Blue. (By the same logic, increasing certain skills or abilities might increase certain Tides as well, because it costs you something to do so.)

The Tides don't judge your motivations, but if you voice those motivations, then the Tides can be moved. For example, if you express shock at a murder, your reason for being shocked can change which Tide is affected if you voice it: "How can you do this? He was an innocent victim!" might increase Gold while "What purpose does this death serve?" might increase Indigo. Neither, of course, would increase the Tides as much as equivalent actions (actually attacking or arresting the murderer, for example). Your character is what we call Attuned to the Tides, being both aware of the Tides and affected by them. Most NPCs are unaware of the Tides' existence, though a significant percentage can be affected by them.

Affected NPCs, and the rare Attuned ones like you, will have one or two Dominant Tides as well. If your Dominant Tide(s) match those of an NPC, it can have varying effects. You might be able to understand their motivations and manipulate them better. They may like you more (or less) without knowing why. The difficulty of certain dialogue tasks may decrease (or increase). Most of this is done behind the scenes, but certain skills and abilities can reveal some of this information.

Additionally, special NPCs who are aware of the Tides may recognize your Dominant Tides and try to manipulate you.

And whether they're aware of the Tides or not, your reputation with NPCs can be affected by your Dominant Tides. Assuming you've earned a reputation, Silver would make you like a celebrity, while Blue would make you known for intelligence or wisdom, and so on. This reputation effect might be either cosmetic or logical, opening doors that would be closed for those of other Dominant Tides.

And, as we've often said, the Tides will have an effect on certain items and abilities as well. They may even impact side effects that appear during crafting.

There's more, too, some of which we’ll talk about in the future and some you’ll have to discover in the game.
The update also introduces the two combat systems currently under consideration for the game. While turn-based combat is inXile's favored option, it will ultimately be up to a vote, so don't get too happy:

Back in May, we described our plan to determine our combat system. As we've said from the beginning: we know our goals for combat, and we feel that we can accomplish them with any system. As detailed in our Vision doc, those goals are:
1) Integration of narrative elements.
2) Meaningful player decisions in combat.
3) Meaningful player decisions out of combat (e.g. character build, preparing for combat, etc).
4) Quality encounters (no dungeon crawls or trash mobs).

Our Crisis concept is the manifestation of that vision. It accomplishes all the above goals without defining whether the Crisis plays out in turns or real-time (though we do have a preference; see below). All combats are Crises, so we had to design that concept out and present it before we could have this discussion. But as fun as concepts and prototypes are, there comes a time to decide.

You may be curious as to why we’ve waited this long for the vote and why the options below might not have elaborate details. We originally had planned to have this discussion early next year and to give you greater detail to consider, but we’ve decided to move things sooner, before we had detailed designs.

You see, while we haven’t invested much effort into designing TTON’s combat system yet, we have been mulling it over for many months. Early this year, we had no preference, but as other aspects of the game’s design have solidified, a turn-based combat approach has been gaining momentum within the team. Rather than invest the energy in delving into the design of multiple systems, we wanted to talk with you first to see how you feel about our current preference. The granular control of the turn-based system and the work we’ve done on Wasteland 2 is very much in-line with the Crisis concept.

But we haven’t made a final decision yet—we are still open to feedback, and we very much want to hear what you have to say.

Below, we present the options we're considering for combat, based on the design work we've done so far. Read them carefully, then voice your opinion in this forum. Right now, the forum is for discussion and debate only, but we’ll open it up for voting after everybody's had time to consider our plans and the ideas and comments of other backers.

Understand, the vote is strictly advisory. In any debate, there is always a vocal crowd and a silent majority. The discussion period is for the vocal crowd to sway people to their side, and then the vote ensures everyone's voice is heard equally. The point of all of this is so we can take your ideas and opinions into account as we make the decision we feel is best for the game.​

Besides that, there's also a new Q&A video, in which a rather depilated Colin McComb answers a few backer questions:



Finally, you may have already noticed that inXile have been overhauling their forums over the past few days. There's now an official Torment subforum hosted on the Wasteland 2 forum site, with further improvements to come. Be aware that this is separate from the aforementioned backers-only UserVoice "forum" that will be used to discuss and vote on the combat system.
 

J_C

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Cool update, I'm liking the Tide mechanics, as well as the crisis stuff.

I hope the combat system will be RTwP. :troll:
 

felipepepe

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And please DO NOT:

  • Insist that we’ve abandoned fun if we don’t pick your favored method.
Sorry Colin, but only Sawyer gets that honor. To you we either simply say DECLINE, or, if needed, cry "It's liek The Complete Book of Elves all over again!!!!111"
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
And please DO NOT:

  • Insist that we’ve abandoned fun if we don’t pick your favored method.
Sorry Colin, but only Sawyer gets that honor. To you we either simply say DECLINE, or, if needed, cry "It's liek The Complete Book of Elves all over again!!!!111"

I wonder where they got the idea for that sentence? :codexisfor:
 

Grunker

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Early this year, we had no preference, but as other aspects of the game’s design have solidified, a turn-based combat approach has been gaining momentum within the team.

:yeah:
 
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hiver

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damn... Colin lost even more hair.
-ah okay, that was for charity.

Good answers Colin. Im completely pleased with all of them.

Great update all together. Mechanics of Tide's sound bloody awesome. Im positively surprised with all thats said.
And finally something for backers only. Great move.
 
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winterraptor

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Most of this is done behind the scenes

Bless you.

[Your Influence with winterraptor has increased by 20 points, qualifying you for the Feat "Has Not Abandoned Fun," increasing your Wisdom by 0.5 points, rounded down.]
 

MicoSelva

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Great update. Since the combat system is looking like it can be genuinely GOOD and FUN, I prefer it to be TB, as it allows for a greater degree of control.

But if they wanted to make it half-assed, I would prefer RTWP because it's faster, so it wastes less time.
 

Whisky

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
Tides sound awesome, perhaps they'll be less awesome when the game is released, but the concept alone puts it above normal alignment charts.

Potential for TB combat is good too.
 

doshu

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I'll go for RTwP too, if it's done properly (meaning OKish IA and good UI). While I usually like TB best, it doesn't seem to fit the kind of game TTON will be; a game emphasizing choices and crisis resolution mostly outside of combat. RTwP, done properly, allows enough strategic and tactical thinking, while having the advantage of bringing more reaction possibilities to the mix. Plus, it will make the gameplay more fluid.
 

TwinkieGorilla

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Ohmyshit turn-based on a game like this would be a fucking dream for me. Fuck. Fuck. FuckfuckdufhjahfadjkhfkdlaHGJKHA;KLGD
 

Fat Dragon

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While turn-based combat is inXile's favored option, it will ultimately be up to a vote, so don't get too happy
Fuck that shit. Make the game you need to make, inXile, and if turn-based is what you feel would work best then go with turn-based. Anyone who decides to bitch can go get fucked.
 
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There is no place for RTwP in this game. In other games, perhaps, but not in Torment. Was one game almost ruined by RTWP not enough?
 

TwinkieGorilla

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Honestly, if the situation is "We think the game would be best like this but, uh, BACKERS might prevent this from being the case!" then Kickstarter is already a failure for you guys on the most important level...because this is no different from your previous impotent position.
 

doshu

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They already stated a while ago that the final decision will be up to them, and not the backers. The discusion and the vote are both for them to see what we want, and to think a bit outside of the box.

And when you read "we are a bit in favor of TB for the time being", you must understand "most of us favor TB, the rest prefers RTwP". inXile isn't one guy, it's a team. KS makes us kind of a part of this team, so hearing us out before is entirely relevant.
 

hiver

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it doesn't seem to fit the kind of game TTON will be; a game emphasizing choices and crisis resolution mostly outside of combat.
bullshitz. The very fact that there wont be that many combat encounters speaks that TB is the better solution.

RTwP, done properly, allows enough strategic and tactical thinking, while having the advantage of bringing more reaction possibilities to the mix.
bullshitz. what is the "more reaction possibilities"?

it only brings player skill overriding character skills.

Plus, it will make the gameplay more fluid.
with the player stopping time thousands and thousands of times? yeah right.
 

Roguey

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My prediction is that unless there's an overwhelming support for rtwp (like 66-75%+) they'll go with turn-based. :M
 
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Requesting Possibly Retarded tag for doshu

Yeah, right. Like RTwP is for retarded :lol:

All I see around here is that I explain myself with words. You bark you're right but don't explain anything. At least express your opinion. Or can't you?
When hiver's posts started being more coherent and sensible than yours, it should have given you a hint.

And RTwP is grossly inferior for party based cRPGs. :smug:
 

FeelTheRads

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How about replying to hiver? He told you why you're wrong.

Like RTwP is for retarded

Not necessarily. Just the arguments for it against TB usually are.

Also, a Jap who doesn't like TB? The decline is strong there.
 

Rake

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Requesting Possibly Retarded tag for doshu

Yeah, right. Like RTwP is for retarded :lol:

All I see around here is that I explain myself with words. You bark you're right but don't explain anything. At least express your opinion. Or can't you?
When hiver's posts started being more coherent and sensible than yours, it should have given you a hint.
hiver posts are sensible most of the time.:obviously:
The coherent part depends on his mood, but at least he has something to say when he wants to put the effort.

Also, what FtR said above. From the games inXile gave as examples, the RTwP ones had better combat than the TB ones.
And yet all arguements for RTwP i have seen in InXile's forums are one more retarded than the other.
 
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Requesting Possibly Retarded tag for doshu

Yeah, right. Like RTwP is for retarded :lol:

All I see around here is that I explain myself with words. You bark you're right but don't explain anything. At least express your opinion. Or can't you?
When hiver's posts started being more coherent and sensible than yours, it should have given you a hint.
hiver posts are sensible most of the time.:obviously:
The coherent part depends on his mood, but at least he has something to say when he wants.
I meant the coherence tbh. I have trouble deciphering his posts when he goes into one of his rants but that is due to my lack of knowledge about informal english he tends to use. But yes, most of his posts have some valid point he tries to convey.
 

doshu

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The very fact that there wont be that many combat encounters speaks that TB is the better solution.

The above is not what I would call sensible. He only affirm his truth without any other form of argumentation. Like everyone should agree because, you know, it's the CODEX! Which means TB dude, yo!

Well, not so much for me. I think that RTwP would be better for TTON because of it's approach to combat as a part of a whole bigger way of conceiving adversity, aka "crisis". But I also think that inXile might be better off doing TB, it seems to be what they would do best. And the game would still be great, I'm sure.

Oh, and btw, I ain't "Jap". Living in a country doesn't make you one of "them". Makes you think out of the box though, which would surely benefit some guys/gals over here...
 

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