Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Snerf]

Yeah I know. My excitement is lowering my standards to the point where puns seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[uaciaut]

Curious if MCA being involved in this would have made brought in even more fast, especially seeing how fast this is getting funded.

Doubt they'll go over 5 mil but it's the most likely title to beat P:E.

 

[Jaesun]

I can't wait for Saunders tweet: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!

 

[Ovplain]

Hooray!

 

[skuphundaku]

You imply that Advanced technology/and or science is not a key element in star wars?
And before you talk about the force being fantasy, consider the ''plane of pure consciousness and light'', the extra planar aliens, the consciousness shift... those aren't closer to science than the force is.

The technology in star wars could just as easily be magic and, as for science, there's no science whatsoever involved. The force? It's a fucking religion built around magic.

Sphere of consciousness? - if you could have your consciousness transplanted into a device that samples all its inputs with a 1TSps (tera-sample per second) sampling rate and is able to process all of it in real time, would you say that you function on a different level/sphere of consciousness? How about if that device could sense things that your previous incarnation wasn't even aware they existed? There's nothing mystical about it if you understand it.
Shifting consciousness between bodies? - the human nervous system is a highly complex biological computer. Once you're able to fully understand it, you're able to duplicate it. Consciousness, as we know it, is just a result of how our nervous systems are hardwired. Copy that and you can copy/transfer your consciousness. This is a classic sci-fi subject... heck, it's getting closer and closer to real science even. Nothing mysical/fantastic here either.
Floating cities? - "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." (Ross Callon, RFC 1925 - https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1925)
Extraplanar entities? - if have a true, hard, AI, wouldn't that be a sort of extraplanar being? What if that AI has command of a cloud of utility fog ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_fog ) and could, quite literally, create, seemingly out of nothing, a body?... or interact with the environment by way of electromagnetic effectors?

I can keep going like this forever, but I made my point already.

 

[Borelli]

Launched: Mar 6, 2013
$887,198
pledged of $900,000 goal
This is an interesting study regarding kickstarters. If you have lost of pre-hype and then launch a kickstarter, you get massive donations at start however there is no way it will keep up at that pace through a whole month. So the question is does all that hype increase total donations or it just makes potential donators rush in the first 24 hours? I would love to see graphs of Wasteland 2 and Project: Eternity donations to see if they follow the same donation spikes.

 

[skuphundaku]

Goal reached in 6h. Holy fucking shit!

 

[almondblight]

Damn. I thought this one would end up being much slower than Wasteland 2. I wonder how much having a list of classic RPG backers from Wasteland 2 helped out.

 

[Data4]

I think it's equal parts "Torment Sequel!" and "These guys aren't fucking around".

 

[Jaesun]

Brian Fargo ‏@BrianFargo
See the video of the inXile crew reacting to hitting our goal.http://youtu.be/eq4X0AdTiSw via @youtube

 

[Akarnir]

You imply that Advanced technology/and or science is not a key element in star wars?
And before you talk about the force being fantasy, consider the ''plane of pure consciousness and light'', the extra planar aliens, the consciousness shift... those aren't closer to science than the force is.

The technology in star wars could just as easily be magic and, as for science, there's no science whatsoever involved. The force? It's a fucking religion built around magic.

Sphere of consciousness? - if you could have your consciousness transplanted into a device that samples all its inputs with a 1TSps (tera-sample per second) sampling rate and is able to process all of it in real time, would you say that you function on a different level/sphere of consciousness? How about if that device could sense things that your previous incarnation wasn't even aware they existed? There's nothing mystical about it if you understand it.
Shifting consciousness between bodies? - the human nervous system is a highly complex biological computer. Once you're able to fully understand it, you're able to duplicate it. Consciousness, as we know it, is just a result of how our nervous systems are hardwired. Copy that and you can copy/transfer your consciousness. This is a classic sci-fi subject... heck, it's getting closer and closer to real science even. Nothing mysical/fantastic here either.
Floating cities? - "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." (Ross Callon, RFC 1925 - https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1925)
Extraplanar entities? - if have a true, hard, AI, wouldn't that be a sort of extraplanar being? What if that AI has command of a cloud of utility fog ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_fog ) and could, quite literally, create, seemingly out of nothing, a body?... or interact with the environment by way of electromagnetic effectors?

I can keep going like this forever, but I made my point already.

You made your point, but you missed mine.
And beside, some of the stuff you said are a little silly. Talking about consciousness like it's something we have understood today as being a chemical reaction, now that's stupid. Self awareness is probably a chemical reaction, but isn't necessarily consciousness. That's a meta physical debate right here. And don't start on that.
And extraplanar entity, AI, what??? Extra plane of existance, especially ''plane of pure light'' is just ''religion'' too. Might as well call that place Paradise.

Inventing science/physical laws out of thin air is basically writing fantasy. The force was just another physical law in star wars, just like everything that will be in numenera.
And that's basically what they said : ''Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.''

Which can basically be read as :

''When we are just making up technology and physical laws, we are reinventing reality, and therefore making fantasy''

Hence why they call it : ''science Fantasy'' . Except I argue with the ''science'' part, on a pure theoretical standpoint, and it should just be renamed ''Future fantasy''. Technology and science having always been prevalent anyway, just more or less archaic. But that's another subject.

 

[Akarnir]

Launched: Mar 6, 2013
$887,198
pledged of $900,000 goal
This is an interesting study regarding kickstarters. If you have lost of pre-hype and then launch a kickstarter, you get massive donations at start however there is no way it will keep up at that pace through a whole month. So the question is does all that hype increase total donations or it just makes potential donators rush in the first 24 hours? I would love to see graphs of Wasteland 2 and Project: Eternity donations to see if they follow the same donation spikes.

Wasteland got 500 000$ on first 24 hours.

Project eternity got 1.1 million on first 27 hours (apparently due to poor lauching hour, they got more in the last 3 hours).

You can follow the graphs on kicktrack.

 

[Azarkon]

More like, everything is so unrealistic and baseless that it becomes fantasy. Apparently there exist multiple plane of existence, one can shift his consciousness in different bodies, we haven't even clearly defined what consciousness means (one of the biggest meta physical debate), the singularity is possible (in fact some did the opposite), giant floating crystals is possible, there exist transcendent extra planar beings...
''Every thing is brain farted out of tin air, so why not just call it fantasy'' is basically the reasoning.

And that comes from someone who just backed, because that doesn't mean it won't be entertaining.

That description applies to almost all science fiction in modern times.

Science Fiction really doesn't mean anything. Science fiction, for me, is a man on hoverbike flying around and zapping things.

That's why I always said that the nomenclature was a bit incomplete. The low/mid/high fantasy distinction is good, but science fiction can mean a lot of different things, some very opposite.

Would you cut it out with all the bullshit? Science fiction is quite clearly defined ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/science_fiction ):
science fiction (uncountable)

1. Fiction in which advanced technology and/or scienceis a key element.
   Some people consider motion pictures such as the Star Wars movies more as fantasies than science fiction.
2. Technologythat, while theoretically possible, is not yet practical.
   Despite decades of research, mass-market personal aircraft are still science fiction.

The fact that you, along with some others, conflate science fiction with true science fantasy like Star Wars and other assorted types of space operas is irrelevant. I'm not in the mood to take apart item by item, VD style, all the things that you listed as proof of Numenera not being science fiction, but if you insist, I will.

You imply that Advanced technology/and or science is not a key element in star wars?
And before you talk about the force being fantasy, consider the ''plane of pure consciousness and light'', the extra planar aliens, the consciousness shift... those aren't closer to science than the force is.

This setting is just fantasy, but in a place where technology hanging around is more advanced than today. Some here need to get over it, fantasy is not a bad word. Of course one can't feel as Edgy when liking fantasy...

The modern nomenclature is constructed from a bunch of stereotypes.

When you utter 'fantasy,' people think ancient / medieval period European society, limited technology, magic, mount & blade, sword & sandal, naturalistic art style, etc.

When you utter 'science X,' people think futuristic society, advanced technology, guns & spaceships, robots & transhumans, mechanistic art style, etc.

Science fantasy is oxymoronic because it tries to combine two opposed stereotype groups. Yet, that's what Star Wars did. It took fantasy stereotypes - ie knights, magic, ewoks - and forced it into a futuristic setting with guns, spaceships, and robots. The result is all sorts of silly but it pushed enough buttons to attract a legion of fans.

The same goes for the technology vs. magic debate. Starting from the time science fiction authors stopped bothering to explain how their new technological gimmicks work, the main difference between technology and magic has been one of art style. It's technology when it looks mechanistic. It's magic when it looks naturalistic. In between the two are those slick, crystallic looking gizmos that look as though they're Protoss artifacts. That's 'science fantasy technology.'

 

[Akarnir]

The same goes for the technology vs. magic debate. Starting from the time science fiction authors stopped bothering to explain how their new technological gimmicks work, the main difference between technology and magic has been one of art style. It's technology when it looks mechanistic. It's magic when it looks naturalistic. In between the two are those slick, crystallic looking gizmos that look as though they're Protoss artifacts. That is 'science fantasy technology.'

It depends, there can be a distinction between magic and technology, but it's very rare.It's when magic becomes more like a religious thing, a force linked to the will of the soul/spirit itself, when the soul/spirit is defined as something exterior to the body, transcending the physical world, like in Christianity for example, or like most religions, pagan or monotheist.

You can then see magic as a direct manifestation of this soul/spirit in the ''outside'' world. That's somehow what magic was believed to be in many culture.

LOTR has that with the Maia/Ainur, for example. In this case one could argue that it's ''divine power'', but it's pretty much the same as magic, except the one that the ''gods'' use.

Some fantasy author do it that way, consciously or not.

 

[skuphundaku]

Talking about consciousness like it's something we have understood today as being a chemical reaction, now that's stupid. Self awareness is probably a chemical reaction, but isn't necessarily consciousness.

The brain is an electro-chemical computer. If you think there is such a thing as a "soul", then we'll have to stop right there because you're not really arguing starting from science but starting from religion, and that means that you're wasting everybody's time, mine in particular. If you want to circlejerk about religion, you can always find some morons in GD to do that with you.

I argue with the ''science'' part, on a pure theoretical standpoint, and it should just be renamed ''Future fantasy''. Technology and science having always been prevalent anyway, just more or less archaic. But that's another subject.

I'll quote that science fiction definition again: "Technology that, while theoretically possible, is not yet practical." That's the core tenet of science fiction. The fact that it extrapolates about things that can actually prove to be real, not just pulling stuff out of your ass. As I was saying in another thread some time ago, the best sci-fi writers are also scientists, and the fact that their sci-fi is good is a direct result of the fact that they make educated guesses about where science and technology is headed, instead of just making shit up and then claiming artistic license to silence their detractors.

 

[Akarnir]

Talking about consciousness like it's something we have understood today as being a chemical reaction, now that's stupid. Self awareness is probably a chemical reaction, but isn't necessarily consciousness.

The brain is an electro-chemical computer. If you think there is such a thing as a "soul", then we'll have to stop right there because you're not really arguing starting from science but starting from religion, and that means that you're wasting everybody's time, mine in particular. If you want to circlejerk about religion, you can always find some morons in GD to do that with you.

Please stop your strawman. That's not what I'm saying. You just want to make me look stupid by misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm simply saying, that consciousness is a controversial word due to it's religious/meta physical implifications, and self-awareness/sentience is more appropriate.


And monte Cook is not a scientist, and a lot of numenera technology is probably baseless from a theoretical perspective (and much of what has been shown is just pure invention).

 

[Endemic]

Ion engines are realistic for one - not everything in SW is "fantasy". Though it definitely veers on that side a lot.

Anyway I think InXile will have a hard time living up to Torment at least in the story respect, who do they have onboard for the writing?

 

[skuphundaku]

Talking about consciousness like it's something we have understood today as being a chemical reaction, now that's stupid. Self awareness is probably a chemical reaction, but isn't necessarily consciousness.

The brain is an electro-chemical computer. If you think there is such a thing as a "soul", then we'll have to stop right there because you're not really arguing starting from science but starting from religion, and that means that you're wasting everybody's time, mine in particular. If you want to circlejerk about religion, you can always find some morons in GD to do that with you.

Please stop your strawman. That's not what I'm saying. You just want to make me look stupid by misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm simply saying, that consciousness is a controversial word due to it's religious/meta physical implifications, and self-awareness/sentience is more appropriate.

I don't even consider the religious/metaphysical implications because I don't have imaginary friends and don't make allowances for people with imaginary friends.

 

[Akarnir]

Talking about consciousness like it's something we have understood today as being a chemical reaction, now that's stupid. Self awareness is probably a chemical reaction, but isn't necessarily consciousness.

The brain is an electro-chemical computer. If you think there is such a thing as a "soul", then we'll have to stop right there because you're not really arguing starting from science but starting from religion, and that means that you're wasting everybody's time, mine in particular. If you want to circlejerk about religion, you can always find some morons in GD to do that with you.

Please stop your strawman. That's not what I'm saying. You just want to make me look stupid by misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm simply saying, that consciousness is a controversial word due to it's religious/meta physical implifications, and self-awareness/sentience is more appropriate.

I don't even consider the religious/metaphysical implications because I don't have imaginary friends and don't make allowances for people with imaginary friends.

I'm an atheist too you douchefag silly person.
But like many philosopher/scientist guys I've heard on the subject, I have my reserve when it comes to consciousness and concept that goes beyond science.
Note the term CONCEPT. It means i take them as CONCEPT, not realities.

I use the terms self-awareness when it comes to the physical reality of the brain. And I'm not the only one.

 

[Blaine]

Ion engines are realistic for one -

They are if they accelerate/maneuver the ship at an absolute snail's pace, don't glow like bonfires, and don't emit cacophonous howling noises in a vacuum. Calling Star Wars' ion engines "realistic" because ion engines are real is like calling lightsabers "realistic" because lasers and/or plasma and/or magnetic fields (take your pick; technobabble explanations of lightsabers vary) are real.

On an unrelated note, the science fiction aspect of this Torment successor's setting—as well as its exotic artistic style and world architecture, which I find vaguely reminiscent of HR Giger's biomechanoid artwork (among other elements)—are major factors in my excitement for this game. I'm dead fucking tired of generic quasi-European forests, generic quasi-European architecture, generic quasi-European clothing and weapons, and generic Tolkien-derived fantasy races... not to mention the predictable plot tropes and other familiar elements that inevitably rear their heads in the overused setting. I enjoy exploration and true mystery, and an essentially alien world populated by alien creatures and filled with alien structures and items that I haven't seen six hundred and seventy thousand fucking times before is conducive to that.

 

[Kz3r0]

Launched: Mar 6, 2013
$887,198
pledged of $900,000 goal
This is an interesting study regarding kickstarters. If you have lost of pre-hype and then launch a kickstarter, you get massive donations at start however there is no way it will keep up at that pace through a whole month. So the question is does all that hype increase total donations or it just makes potential donators rush in the first 24 hours? I would love to see graphs of Wasteland 2 and Project: Eternity donations to see if they follow the same donation spikes.

It has been already observed numerous times, there is a big rush at the beginning and a high spike at the end in almost all the Kickstarter projects, you can check in this site the pledge timeline of various projects if you want:
http://www.kicktraq.com/

 

[Endemic]

They are if they accelerate/maneuver the ship at an absolute snail's pace, don't glow like bonfires

Okay, the concept is realistic. Never mind then.

 

[skuphundaku]

But like many philosopher/scientist guys I've heard on the subject

I don't know what scientists you're following, and I truly don't care either. As for philosophers, I don't give a shit about that lot. If you mix science with philosophy, you're just making a hash of science (because philosophy is mostly hash to start with).

I have my reserve when it comes to consciousness and concept that goes beyond science.
Note the term CONCEPT. It means i take them as CONCEPT, not realities.

Nothing goes beyond science.

 

[Gozma]

Oh man on that note I bet Feargus is getting gut knots from going for safety in a Baldur's Gate KS instead of this
I thought this was such a terrible idea when first mooted, but the thematic inversion with the cast-off body thing to PST is absolutely brilliant

 

[Captain Shrek]

EDIT: Can't wait to see people scream decline when Real-time with Pause is announced.

I am getting my Bottle of infuriator to wrack my nerves just for that occasion.