Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Captain Shrek]

1 MILLION!!!! FFFFFuuuu

This better be TURN BASED!!! :D

 

[Akarnir]

But like many philosopher/scientist guys I've heard on the subject

I don't know what scientists you're following, and I truly don't care either. As for philosophers, I don't give a shit about that lot. If you mix science with philosophy, you're just making a hash of science (because philosophy is mostly hash to start with).

I have my reserve when it comes to consciousness and concept that goes beyond science.
Note the term CONCEPT. It means i take them as CONCEPT, not realities.

Nothing goes beyond science.

Well that's an opinion. But to quote the wikipedos :

In 2004, eight neuroscientists felt it was too soon for a definition. They wrote an apology in "Human Brain Function":[75]
"We have no idea how consciousness emerges from the physical activity of the brain and we do not know whether consciousness can emerge from non-biological systems, such as computers... At this point the reader will expect to find a careful and precise definition of consciousness. You will be disappointed. Consciousness has not yet become a scientific term that can be defined in this way. Currently we all use the term consciousness in many different and often ambiguous ways. Precise definitions of different aspects of consciousness will emerge ... but to make precise definitions at this stage is premature."

The facts are, consciousness is an ambiguous word, it's exact definition is subject to much controversy, even amongst non-religious scientist, that should be used with caution, because it doesn't mean what one think it means.

 

[Jaesun]

Having just turned based combat =! good combat.

 

[Lady_Error]

I have my reserve when it comes to consciousness and concept that goes beyond science.
Note the term CONCEPT. It means i take them as CONCEPT, not realities.

Nothing goes beyond science.

Except things science hasn't discovered yet.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Having just turned based combat =! good combat.

You don't say!

 

[skuphundaku]

But like many philosopher/scientist guys I've heard on the subject

I don't know what scientists you're following, and I truly don't care either. As for philosophers, I don't give a shit about that lot. If you mix science with philosophy, you're just making a hash of science (because philosophy is mostly hash to start with).

I have my reserve when it comes to consciousness and concept that goes beyond science.
Note the term CONCEPT. It means i take them as CONCEPT, not realities.

Nothing goes beyond science.

Well that's an opinion. But to quote the wikipedos :

In 2004, eight neuroscientists felt it was too soon for a definition. They wrote an apology in "Human Brain Function":[75]
"We have no idea how consciousness emerges from the physical activity of the brain and we do not know whether consciousness can emerge from non-biological systems, such as computers... At this point the reader will expect to find a careful and precise definition of consciousness. You will be disappointed. Consciousness has not yet become a scientific term that can be defined in this way. Currently we all use the term consciousness in many different and often ambiguous ways. Precise definitions of different aspects of consciousness will emerge ... but to make precise definitions at this stage is premature."

The facts are, consciousness is an ambiguous word, it's exact definition is subject to much controversy, even amongst non-religious scientist, that should be used with caution, because it doesn't mean what one think it means.

The problem is that scientists, especially in the US, need to thread lightly in order not to lose potential sources of funding, and the religious nutters are strong like bull, especially in the US, so it behooves scientists to, at least publicly, try to appease the retards. Also, the fact that we still don't fully understand how various things work doesn't mean that, somewhere, at a more fundamental level than our current understanding, fairies exist. It just means that we still don't have complete understanding, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Blaine]

Having just turned based combat =! good combat.

Can't believe I'm writing this, but for once I'd be happy for some overzealous moderation moving every post that vaguely smells of the RTwP/turn-based debate to one of the pre-existing threads on the subject. I have strong preferences regarding the debate myself, but it's fucking cancerous.

As a bribe, I offer you the academic version of someone getting told hard:

 

[Akarnir]

Have they announced how they were to decided if it's TB or Real time combat?

Have they announced that they will announce?

 

[skuphundaku]

I have my reserve when it comes to consciousness and concept that goes beyond science.
Note the term CONCEPT. It means i take them as CONCEPT, not realities.

Nothing goes beyond science.

Except things science hasn't discovered yet.

That is just a lack of understanding on our part, not a limitation of science itself. Lack of sufficient knowledge is not proof that supernatural entities do exist.

 

[hoverdog]

is this GD

or this just fantasy

 

[Gozma]

I dunno, I think the TB/RTwP debate is kinda interesting in the context of Torment as opposed to what is basically a squad tactics game in a Baldur's Gate successor. I am a violent anti-RTwP partisan in that context but with Torment...

I mean, I dunno if it even makes sense to have some half-hour deepassed squad tactics fight break out in the middle of an RPG dialog+adventure game, and if the mechanics will also be gratifying for a no-gameplay fight like killing a schlub in an alley because your evil PC needs his clothes or something.

 

[General Maxson]

I dunno, I think the debate is kinda interesting in the context of Torment as opposed to what is basically a squad tactics game in a Baldur's Gate successor. I am a violent anti-RTwP partisan in that context but with Torment...

I mean, I dunno if it even makes sense to have some half-hour deepassed squad tactics fight break out in the middle of an RPG dialog+adventure game, and if the mechanics will also be gratifying for a no-gameplay fight like killing a schlub in an alley because your evil PC needs his clothes or something.

No, in such a thought requiring game, it is a prudent to make even combat TB, because if the game requires thinking, can combat be irrelevant and popamole? If it's that unimportant, why not make an adventure game??? All rtwp combat I have played was popamole and boring so far.

I'm secretly hoping Codex votes will crush the popamole if there will be voting for combat systems and that TB will win. I mean Planescape had rtwp, and it was the shittiest part of the game. Why not do something else?

And they already said they won't "throw" combat encounters at the player, and that encounters will be meaningful and avoidable... So a nice, quick and fun TB will be great. And you will actually have some input, unlike rtwp where you click and wait for stuff to die.

Such a "slower" pace game with lots of text and contemplation requires a similar combat system. :D

 

[Jaesun]

Yeah I think our codex votes will be a large force. But again JUST doing turn based combat =! good combat. it needs a good system AND encounter design

And even dreaded RTwP can work OK with the same (good combat system and encounter design).

 

[Akarnir]

Yeah I think our codex votes will be a large force. But again JUST doing turn based combat =! good combat. it needs a good system AND encounter design

And even dreaded RTwP can work OK with the same.

Isn't that a bit cheating, if people here (including me) spam en masse for TB, while the RTwP sheeple aren't as organized? =3

 

[Infinitron]

I say phase-based, just for diversity's sake. It's time to reintroduce that system back into CRPGs.

 

[General Maxson]

Yeah I think our codex votes will be a large force. But again JUST doing turn based combat =! good combat. it needs a good system AND encounter design

And even dreaded RTwP can work OK with the same (good combat system and encounter design).

I agree bro, but whichever way I look at it, Torment Numenera with TB combat looks a lot more fappable to me than Torment Numenera rtwp. And I can imagine more interesting TB encounters than rtwp ones. :D

 

[Snerf]

Yeah I think our codex votes will be a large force. But again JUST doing turn based combat =! good combat. it needs a good system AND encounter design

And even dreaded RTwP can work OK with the same (good combat system and encounter design).

And a peg leg can work OK for walking around if you don't mind awkwardly stumping all over the place.

People need to ask themselves, do I want a peg leg? Or do I want a toned, tan, running, jumping, face-kicking, moving machine?

Vote for real legs. Vote for turn-based.

 

[undecaf]

I say phase-based, just for diversity's sake.

I wouldn't say no to that should it be the case. Still, pure TB is my way.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Yeah I think our codex votes will be a large force. But again JUST doing turn based combat =! good combat. it needs a good system AND encounter design

And even dreaded RTwP can work OK with the same (good combat system and encounter design).

And a peg leg can work OK for walking around if you don't mind awkwardly stumping all over the place.

People need to ask themselves, do I want a peg leg? Or do I want a toned, tan, running, jumping, face-kicking, moving machine?

Vote for real legs. Vote for turn-based.

When I'm at a restaurant and enjoying a bowl of wonderful home made mushroom soup and I then find a turd in it, I will happily finish the entire bowl of soup.

 

[Sergiu64]

I have my reserve when it comes to consciousness and concept that goes beyond science.
Note the term CONCEPT. It means i take them as CONCEPT, not realities.

Nothing goes beyond science.

Except things science hasn't discovered yet.

That is just a lack of understanding on our part, not a limitation of science itself. Lack of sufficient knowledge is not proof that supernatural entities do exist.

I haven't really heard anyone saying that it's proof that supernatural entities do exist. Take a chill pill and stop jumping to conclusions.

 

[Gakkone]

I say phase-based, just for diversity's sake. It's time to reintroduce that system back into CRPGs.

What kind of a system would that be in an isometric game? Any examples?

 

[Captain Shrek]

I say phase-based, just for diversity's sake. It's time to reintroduce that system back into CRPGs.

What kind of a system would that be in an isometric game? Any examples?

Isometric, no idea. Wizardry 8 was phase based.

 

[Infinitron]

I say phase-based, just for diversity's sake. It's time to reintroduce that system back into CRPGs.

What kind of a system would that be in an isometric game? Any examples?

Ever played Frozen Synapse?

 

[Lancehead]

Would phase based work well with a single character?

 

[Gozma]

I say phase-based, just for diversity's sake. It's time to reintroduce that system back into CRPGs.

Yeah honestly something rare and weird like that would probably work best, even if it's ultimately pretty simple. It will be like the player getting used to walking on his newborn faun legs for the first half of the game

I endorse