Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[hoverdog]

Phase-based, baby! http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/07/tor...-phase-based-combat-ties-in-to-the-narrative/

 

[Gozma]

I honestly want it just to have a less-familiar system to learn (and if combat is pretty infrequent, the fun of a learning process can be stretched a lot) and to avoid RTwP.

 

[Jarpie]

Origin's Knights of Legend used phase-based system I think, or at least something similar.

Yep:



(There's a battle near the end of the video)

Would love to get game like Knights of Legend again, afaik it was overly ambitious for it's time, I played a bit on C64 and liked the battle system but I doubt any developer would have balls to make something like that nowdays.,

 

[Irenaeus]

Phase based is dumbed down Turn based.

 

[Akarnir]

Ultimately however, the game’s Kickstarter backers will have the final word on which format inXile rests on, even if it is currently favouring phase-based combat. “So with all of these goals in mind for our combat, we think it’s agnostic of whether its real-time or pause-based like Planescape: Torment was, or if it’s phase based,” McComb concluded.

That's silly. Of course people will vote for either Turn Based (the hipster's choice) or Real time (the casual's choice). Phase based, no matter how awesome it is, will never get the majority. If the devs are really enthusiast about phase based, then they should go for it. They are the one having the bigger picture in mind.

 

[Kz3r0]

Phase-based would be massive So of course masses of backers would never choose it - democracy needs to be removed ...

/GD

 

[The Bishop]

I don't see advantages of PB system over RTWP in a purely single player game. PB can be great for PvP. All the best examples of successful PB systems (Combat Mission, Frozen Synapse, Laser Squad Nemesis) are primarily or exclusively multiplayer. In a single player game RTWP does pretty much the same thing, you can think of RTWP as PB with variable phase durations.

 

[tuluse]

Actually, one could say phase based is like RTwP but with sequenced intervals.... well if sequenced intervals actually means what I want it to mean.

No because you can't change the orders once they're given.

 

[Akarnir]

Actually, one could say phase based is like RTwP but with sequenced intervals.... well if sequenced intervals actually means what I want it to mean.

No because you can't change the orders once they're given.

yeah that's what I was trying to express with sequenced interval. But I no have better english sequence of letters for that.

In a single player game RTWP does pretty much the same thing, you can think of RTWP as PB with variable phase durations.

The Bishop guy told it better

 

[evdk]

That's not a CRPG though. I don't know if there's ever been an isometric CRPG with PB. Anybody?

Hmm. Albion had phase based battles, where you issue commands on a grid, but the combat itself is the viewed from a first person perspective.

 

[tuluse]

Actually, one could say phase based is like RTwP but with sequenced intervals.... well if sequenced intervals actually means what I want it to mean.

No because you can't change the orders once they're given.

yeah that's what I was trying to express with sequenced interval. But I no have better english sequence of letters for that.

The key feature of RTwP is that you can change your orders at any time. This allows you to use new information immediately (ie twitch).

While in turn based you have to plan not only what you do with your turn, but what you expect the enemy to do with his. For example: only using half your action points to shoot, so you can duck behind cover.

Phased based has both turns happen at the same time, so it's a different thing entirely. You can't react to new information like RT, and you can't plan your turn so it ends in a specific way to thwart what you think your opponent will do.

 

[Akarnir]

Actually, one could say phase based is like RTwP but with sequenced intervals.... well if sequenced intervals actually means what I want it to mean.

No because you can't change the orders once they're given.

yeah that's what I was trying to express with sequenced interval. But I no have better english sequence of letters for that.

The key feature of RTwP is that you can change your orders at any time. This allows you to use new information immediately (ie twitch).

While in turn based you have to plan not only what you do with your turn, but what you expect the enemy to do with his. For example: only using half your action points to shoot, so you can duck behind cover.

Phased based has both turns happen at the same time, so it's a different thing entirely. You can't react to new information like RT, and you can't plan your turn so it ends in a specific way to thwart what you think your opponent will do.

If the guys at InXile are enthusiast about this, I believe it has it's significant advantages.

I'm pretty sure, You can actually plan your turn in a specific way so that it thwarts your opponent. Just in a different way than TB, who has it's fair share of dullness btw.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I really am not so sure about PB. TB, I *KNOW* works. PB I have seen fail often. But never gave enough thought why. Probably it is time I played W8 again. Boy do I hate FPP RPGs.

 

[Captain Shrek]

This can lead to terrible gameplay since you cast an energy missile the opponent simply has already moved away in this action and thus you are casting where he isn't.

I think you would probably aim the energy missile at a character, not at a location. Unless you're aiming at the ground for an area effect spell. It's not different from RTwP in that respect.

That depends, right? If the missile is your standard DnD missile that *never* misses then sure. But if you can dodge it (and conceivably so) this is going to be frustrating.

 

[catfood]

Jaesun

The problem is at your end.

 

[tuluse]

I really am not so sure about PB. TB, I *KNOW* works. PB I have seen fail often. But never gave enough thought why. Probably it is time I played W8 again. Boy do I hate FPP RPGs.

I thought Wiz8 was real time.

You could always play Laser Squad Nemesis or Frozen Synapse to try it in an isometric environment.

 

[Blackguard]

Phase based makes much more sense than turn based, in my opinion, from a realistic point of view. Player A doesn't wait for enemy B to move before he does anything, and the other players don't stay in a suspended state before their turn comes.

How does phase based actual work? Any good crpg's implemented it successfully?

It means everybody decide their action at the beginning of the round, Then the round play with all combatant simultaneously acting.

I can give an example if you want.

If they actually let us vote on the combat system I'm def going for straight RTwP.

 

[Akarnir]

So when are we voting?

 

[tuluse]

So when are we voting?

Brother None says not until after the kickstarter.

 

[Globbi]

So when are we voting?

Probably not before the game will have been officially funded (as in 29 days).

 

[tuluse]

LSN is phased based or "simultaneous turn based". The Frozen Synapse devs said it was their main inspiration iirc.

 

[Aeschylus]

In case people are interested, that ruinedkingdoms site just put up a tracking chart thing for Torment...
http://ruinedkingdoms.com/torment/

 

[Infinitron]

There's also a fourth system - "squad turn-based", as in X-COM.

It's turn-based, but you can freely move between characters in your party and expend their action points piecemeal, instead of being forced to go character-by-character in a predetermined sequence.

 

[Irenaeus]

There's also a fourth system - "squad turn-based", as in X-COM.

It's turn-based, but you can freely move between characters in your party and expend their action points piecemeal, instead of being forced to go character-by-character in a predetermined sequence.

I'm more in favor of a sequence based on initiative.

 

[undecaf]

Phase-based, baby! http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/07/tor...-phase-based-combat-ties-in-to-the-narrative/

Anyways, might be interesting too if done well.
...as long as it doesn't become RTwP or RT...