Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah that's the problem with narrative heavy game. You could gut plenty content out of Pillars or Wasteland or all SR games and we most likely wouldn't notice, while here it just burns the eyes.

 

[Ivan]

is there a resource that shows a lot of merecasters? it seems like it's quite easy to miss some

 

[Iznaliu]

stretch goals

Student Name: Brian Fargo

Results for AS 99999: Create a classic isometric RPG game

☐ Not Achieved

☑︎ Achieved

☐ Achieved with Merit

☐ Achieved with Excellence

 

[UnknownBro]

So, on a scale of 1 to 10, how big a disappointment is this particular nostalgia-driven money-grab?

If only I knew this scammer was a jew... out of 10.

 

[Sensuki]

is it normal for steamspy numbers to drop this early on after release?

 

[hexer]

Refunds?

 

[PulsatingBrain]

Is there a character with healing abilities I can recruit? I've gone full charisma mode and really kind of need one

 

[80Maxwell08]

I'm just glad hiver is back with a new alt so we can enjoy his company again.

 

[Prime Junta]

Is there a character with healing abilities I can recruit? I've gone full charisma mode and really kind of need one

Aligern.

 

[StaticSpine]

Avellone, Ziets, McComb, Sunders, Mithsoda... others. This game was supposed to be their triumph. And now all of this. Unbelievable.

How the hell did this happen?

I know we're all speculating on 'what went wrong' here so my two cents is that the development process was really decentralised. One of the great things about the original Torment was how well it all hung together, nothing hangs together here. You get some good stuff in the Valley of Dead Heroes but the buildup is pretty dogshit. There doesn't feel like there's a unifying influence to the game. Or at least, it feels that the writers were told 'this here's the theme' and then left to their own devices to shite on on whatever they felt best represented that theme. There was no masterplanner sewing the whole thing together, more of a big brute slamming each part onto the next.

You know, I think Infinitron might be onto something here. The part about Early Access being indicator of sales, I mean.

What if, with $5mln from Kickstarter and probably at least $10 million profit from WL2, they went just crazy overambitious. Let's expand the Bloom into a 3rd city, let's add a ton of VO, let's write one million words because we can afford localization, let's add this, let's add that. And they've basically drawn up a budget for twice of what was gained from Kickstarter. Money. wasn't an issue at that point, we know they had it and more.

They start working on it for a while, everything goes well, then they launch Early Access and it sells like trash. They realize this thing will likely never break even with the current scope. So they're left with a choice to either bet entire company on it and possibly go under, or gut everything possible to get it closer the original budget. And we're left with empty shell of a game.

I mean, this game shouldn't be selling as terribly as it does. The reviews are great, they've had plenty of hype, Techland was vomiting out new trailers every other week. Unless, unless they knew something we don't know.

Edit:

Wasteland has 650k owners on Steam alone, and probably at least a 100k on GOG. They were in Humble Monthly as a lead game, but at that point I'm pretty sure they already moved at least 500k units.

I think that they really overestimated the potential game audience. Keen backers like myself eagerly brought money. But the audience was pretty much limited by backers plus some small amount of cautious people who loved PS:T but did not trust Fargo/Crowdfunding etc. The game is too weird and text-heavy to be popular.

Wasteland did pretty good because modern gamers love post-apocalypse sought-after nu Fallouts.

As for the development I think the most viable theory is Kevin tried to implement everything promised during KS and did not meet the budget/deadline. So he was fired and when Chris Keenan became the new lead he cut that much so they could at least release it on some acceptable date.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Forge of the Night Sky

Became a "mere fodder" you'll just visit it in someones memories.
Dunno about second one, maybe yet again another mere I couldn't find.

 

[Prime Junta]

Those Steamspy numbers tho. It's reading 86237. I thought there were about 88000 backers including the ones who backed directly through their portal. If so then post-release sales haven't been just bad, they've been abysmal.

 

[Darth Roxor]

And don't forget some backers were already asking for refunds before release once the fuckups started surfacing. It is naturally a mystery what percentage that would be, but everything counts.

 

[MRY]

Too late to use the Merecaster.

it must be used before entering the Endless Gate, yes? Shit, that was one of the best parts of the game.

Nah, you use it during the conversation with Inifere. It's one of three ways to resolve him -- Merecaster, persuasion, violence.

 

[Goral]

Is there a character with healing abilities I can recruit? I've gone full charisma mode and really kind of need one

Rhin too. Plus Rhin's story has an interesting plot-twist at the end if you make a certain decision in the Bloom.

 

[undecaf]

Those Steamspy numbers tho. It's reading 86237. I thought there were about 88000 backers including the ones who backed directly through their portal. If so then post-release sales haven't been just bad, they've been abysmal.

Guess we won't be seeing that cavalcade of different "Torment" games they were thinking about.

 

[TT1]

I've lost my sleep and I'm taking a look at the list of stretch goals (I'm really upset about this). If we look good, inxile did not deliver anything above 2M. Just companions.

Music and novellas do not depend on the development of the game, so I think we have a HUGE problem here, gentlemen.

It is important to learn a lesson here: we can not let another campaign happen that way. Novellas, more music, "collin apologizes", etc.

At the end of the day we gave money to someone to play PST and apologize for a book.

From Reddit:

TL;DR - There are 33 measurable stretch goals. 13 were cut. Also, 5 features of the base game were cut or significantly downsized (if you see others let me know).

Let's go through the list. Starting from the bottom. Leaving out vague promises ("more reactivity") and team members joining. If there are any corrections please let me know.

http://i.imgur.com/JmO7ks0.jpg


Stretch Goals

1.2 (million $)

• Gender with reactivity. Yes (one quest available to female and male)

1.5

• New area : Crystal dimension. Yes
• New Novella (Nathan Long). Yes

2

• More mark Morgan Music. Yes (50 songs in game)
• Live Orchestra. Cut
• New area: Ruins of Ossiphagan. Cut (mere only)
• New Companion- "The Toy". Cut. ("Oom, a changing ball of goo.")
• New Compansion - Secret. Cut. ("Satsada, a sibyl with no body of her own, who speaks through the mouth of Riastrad, a man whose mind is broken beyond repair.")
• Novellas (Mur and Tony). Yes

2.5

• Colin's Apology for the book of elves. Yes. (lol did multiple takes because he was snarky )
• Colin plays and commentates PS:T playthrough. Yes
• Novella (Monte Cook). Yes

2.75

• Castoff's Labyrinth - Reflections of companions / NPCs - Yes

2.85

• Expansive Epilogue - Yes (being generous. Wouldn't call it expansive)

3

• Secret Meres. Yes
• Increase legacy from 6 to 11. Yes (but legacies barely do anything)
• New cult - Order of the Endless Gate - Yes
• New Cult - The order of Flaggelants and Austerities. Cut
• New companion - Secret. Cut. ("A crippled beggar who devours magic to feed his addiction to the energies that flow through the numenera—and who can call upon that power to blast his foes with waves of pure force.")

3.1

• New cult - Dendra Ohur - Yes

3.35

• Lacunae - NPCs unique to the labyrinth. Cut

3.4

• Pat Rothfuss writes a companion. Yes (Rhin)

3.5

• Chris writes a companion. Yes (Erritis)

3.6

• Hall of Lingering Reflections. Cut.

3.75

• Increased companion depth, companion quests. Yes.
• Castoff's Labyrinth - alternate exit to another part of the Ninth World. Cut. (???)

4

• Number of legacies increased from 11 to 16. Yes (though legacies stripped down)
• Additional major city - Oasis of Mra Jollos. Yes (Replaced by Bloom, which I consider still fulfilling stretch goal to have two major hub cities. Oasis is mere only now)
• Even more Mark Morgan music. Yes (50 songs in game)

4.25

• Voluminous codex. Cut. There is a physical version but it does not match the "interactive journal" described in the goals.
• Crafting Numenera. Cut

4.5

• Player "Stronghold". Cut.

Castoff's Labyrinth

• 12 Fathoms Reached. Cut (there are 12 fathoms but this counts every floor of the labyrinth, including the one where you are rebuilding your memories and the lobby. And these 12 fathoms are basically quick end game floors. This does not match the backer description "The Castoff’s Labyrinth is a bizarre and interesting gameplay area, one of haunting exploration and discovery. As it grows, its secrets become deeper and more complex. Its depths are called Fathoms, and each brings new secrets and — for the determined — new rewards.")

Cuts to Base Game

• Focuses (now a flat bonus + a few choices of ability at each tier. Originally a key part that defines character)
• Legacies (now only impacts ending slides. Originally high levels of reactivity in items and manifested abilities)
• Italian localisation
• Novella. Originally 7 planned. 1 cut.
• Joinable factions

FIVE.MILLIONS.DOLLARS.

FOUR.YEARS.OF.DEVELOPMENT.

That is, summing up:

 

[StaticSpine]

Those Steamspy numbers tho. It's reading 86237. I thought there were about 88000 backers including the ones who backed directly through their portal. If so then post-release sales haven't been just bad, they've been abysmal.

Some people activated GOG keys instead of Steam. Some didn't activate any codes yet.

 

[Turjan]

Those Steamspy numbers tho. It's reading 86237. I thought there were about 88000 backers including the ones who backed directly through their portal. If so then post-release sales haven't been just bad, they've been abysmal.

Some people activated GOG keys instead of Steam. Some didn't activate any codes yet.

Yup, I activated a GOG key. You could also activate a Steam key during EA and switch to GOG on release, which would twist the SteamSpy statistics somewhat. I'm not sure how often that happened though.

 

[J_C]

I've lost my sleep and I'm taking a look at the list of stretch goals (I'm really upset about this). If we look good, inxile did not deliver anything above 2M. Just companions.

Music and novellas do not depend on the development of the game, so I think we have a HUGE problem here, gentlemen.

It is important to learn a lesson here: we can not let another campaign happen that way. Novellas, more music, "collin apologizes", etc.

At the end of the day we gave money to someone to play PST and apologize for a book.

Way to go to contradict yourself in one post. You say that they didn't deliver anything beyond 2M just the companions and then you list a lot of things which they did deliver besides that. And 5 millions is penauts for 4 years in the US.

 

[Charles Eli Cheese]

From Reddit:



FIVE.MILLIONS.DOLLARS.

FOUR.YEARS.OF.DEVELOPMENT.

That is, summing up:

Which are mroe retarded: the ones that were cut or the ones that were kept. What a shitty list either way.

 

[TT1]

J_C

Did you play the game? The items they delivered are totally useless, shallow and questionable

 

[Zed]

Those Steamspy numbers tho. It's reading 86237. I thought there were about 88000 backers including the ones who backed directly through their portal. If so then post-release sales haven't been just bad, they've been abysmal.

how big is Valve's cut? Techland's cut?
would be interesting to get a rough estimate on sales income.

 

[Wulfstand]

Bloom is easily the most engrossing place I have seen in this type of game in at least a decade. I don't know if all the negativity is coming from the fact that people just gave up on the game already in Sagus, or if it goes to shit so badly after the Bloom.

The Bloom is the only part of the game I really enjoyed. From start to finish, that area was great, I was actually enjoying myself. I still skimmed through some portions of gray text though, but you can't have them all.

The ending zones feel so short and rushed that they almost completely wiped away all the good impressions I had because of the Bloom.

 

[ArchAngel]

You know, I think Infinitron might be onto something here. The part about Early Access being indicator of sales, I mean.

What if, with $5mln from Kickstarter and probably at least $10 million profit from WL2, they went just crazy overambitious. Let's expand the Bloom into a 3rd city, let's add a ton of VO, let's write one million words because we can afford localization, let's add this, let's add that. And they've basically drawn up a budget for twice of what was gained from Kickstarter. Money. wasn't an issue at that point, we know they had it and more.

They start working on it for a while, everything goes well, then they launch Early Access and it sells like trash. They realize this thing will likely never break even with the current scope. So they're left with a choice to either bet entire company on it and possibly go under, or gut everything possible to get it closer the original budget. And we're left with empty shell of a game.

I mean, this game shouldn't be selling as terribly as it does. The reviews are great, they've had plenty of hype, Techland was vomiting out new trailers every other week. Unless, unless they knew something we don't know.

Edit:

Wasteland has 650k owners on Steam alone, and probably at least a 100k on GOG. They were in Humble Monthly as a lead game, but at that point I'm pretty sure they already moved at least 500k units.

Horizon and Zelda games at same time as TToN..